A Memory of Light [FULL SPOILER DISCUSSION] Part 3

[Gigei]

There was no such PoV. He knows they all have years ahead of them. Nothing in his PoV says he's going away forever.

Um, the POV does say "go away for good." That means forever.

It is explicitly not.

You have read it, right? It's explicitly there.

"Maybe none of them would. Or maybe all of them would, in their own time. He found himself chuckling."

That's Rand thinking about the girls following him. Note the first option where he thinks none of them will go to him, and he laughs. He's okay with it either way.

I'm not pulling all of these ideas out of think air, you know. It's all there in the text.

[fionwe1987]

Um, the POV does say "go away for good." That means forever.

No, his PoV says he wants to get "away from it all" for good. And the PoV makes it clear what "it" is: the fight with the Dark One:

South. East or west would do, but he figured he wanted to go someplace away from it all for good. South first, then maybe out west, along the coast.

He's going South first, to escape it all for good. There's no plan to leave Elayne, Aviendha and Min for good.

You have read it, right? It's explicitly there.

"Maybe none of them would. Or maybe all of them would, in their own time. He found himself chuckling."

That's Rand thinking about the girls following him. Note the first option where he thinks none of them will go to him, and he laughs. He's okay with it either way.

I'm not pulling all of these ideas out of think air, you know. It's all there in the text.

Then don't ignore the next paragraph:

Which would he pick? Min . . . but no, to leave Aviendha? Elayne. No.

He laughed. He couldn’t pick. He had three women in love with him, and didn’t know which he would like to have follow him. Any of them. All of

them. Light, man. You’re hopeless. Hopelessly in love with all three, and theres no way out of it.

He clearly loves them all, and wants to be with all of them. In the larger scheme of things, who exactly will follow him and when don't seem like much of a problem to him, which is hardly a surprise given what he's going through. But if he went from loving them to suddenly not giving a damn about them, they'd have felt it through the bond. They report no such change. They know he still loves all of them.

[Gertrude]

You know there's not much left to pick over when we're arguing over how much Rand loved his harem, and not that it was a bad story-telling decision from the get-go. :P

But seriously - I was willing to let it slide during the series because I didn't know how it would play out. Hey - it might be really important that Rand get with all those wimins! Well, it didn't pan out and was just wish-fulfillment bullshit. So no. That was a crap element of the story. The end.

[Cause]

It might be wish fulfillment on my part but I always wanted Rand to retire to Rhuidhean. In many ways he feels a stranger to the Aiel but also in many ways he is closest to them of all people. He has charged them with an awesome responsibility and from the Aiel point of view they are bound to each other by responsibilities that cut both ways. I thought he would retire there with the Aiel, even thought it would be in secret or perhaps just that the Aiel would keep away all petitioners and he could influence things from their very subtly without having too much weight on his shoulders alone either. Rhuidhean is also a city that essentially he founded over night and I remember when he left one of the Aiel asked if they would ever see him again and he said he hoped to return someday. Aviendah would become the roofmistress, Elayne could pop in anytime. Min could be there too and the Aiel would not even blink.

Having the Queen of Andor teleporting into different Inns every night for a shag just seems off. That said we Know Min loves him and always did her best to stay with him, she will follow him. Avienda will hunt him down like prey, why she never did already is just odd. She needed to be a wise one to be worthy of him? Wierd

[Fredward]

Is this the place where I can bitch about how much I hate Brandon Sanderson with the white hot intensity of ten thousand suns? Because I do. Dude butchered my favorite series.

[Solmyr]

Is this the place where I can bitch about how much I hate Brandon Sanderson with the white hot intensity of ten thousand suns? Because I do. Dude butchered my favorite series.

There, there *hugs and pats on back* let it all out :).

[Shryke]

Is this the place where I can bitch about how much I hate Brandon Sanderson with the white hot intensity of ten thousand suns? Because I do. Dude butchered my favorite series.

Yeah, this is the place to complain about that.

Although if you want to complain about his other works, you can do so in their threads instead.

[Solmyr]

Although if you want to complain about his other works, you can do so in their threads instead.

Are there board threads about Mistborn and Stormlight Archive? I haven't spotted either on the front ~3 pages ever.

[Shryke]

Are there board threads about Mistborn and Stormlight Archive? I haven't spotted either on the front ~3 pages ever.

Oh yeah, there are threads about Mistborn, Way of Kings and Elantris. The WoK one is pretty big and there should be a few about Mistborn.

All I remember is that some people really liked Way of Kings. Somehow.

[Solmyr]

All I remember is that some people really liked Way of Kings. Somehow.

To be fair out of the three (Mistborn, Elantris and WoK), I also like WoK the most. It is slow and it is a set-up book for an ambitious series - but at least it's BS' own universe. I have faith he will do better there than he did in WoT.

[Shryke]

To be fair out of the three (Mistborn, Elantris and WoK), I also like WoK the most. It is slow and it is a set-up book for an ambitious series - but at least it's BS' own universe. I have faith he will do better there than he did in WoT.

WoK features some of the worst writing I've ever seen him do. Some parts are just painfully bad. The rest is mostly just generic. And the whole book is endless slow and repetitive.

Mistborn was his own world too but that at least showed some spark and was never truly terribly written.

[Solmyr]

WoK features some of the worst writing I've ever seen him do. Some parts are just painfully bad. The rest is mostly just generic. And the whole book is endless slow and repetitive.

Mistborn was his own world too but that at least showed some spark and was never truly terribly written.

I already agreed the story in WoK drags, but that is to be expected of a first book in a planned long series (10 volumes so far).

While the plot requires a degree of patience, the characters in WoK are already superior to those of Mistborn, despite the latter being given more books to develop. The only character of Mistborn I liked was Sazed and part of it was the ending he was given (I thought he deserved it, but I was pleasantly surprised that BS agreed and granted it).

[Shryke]

I already agreed the story in WoK drags, but that is to be expected of a first book in a planned long series (10 volumes so far).

While the plot requires a degree of patience, the characters in WoK are already superior to those of Mistborn, despite the latter being given more books to develop. The only character of Mistborn I liked was Sazed and part of it was the ending he was given (I thought he deserved it, but I was pleasantly surprised that BS agreed and granted it).

I disagree completely. A first book is no excuse for shitty repetitive writing and plotting. I mean, even EOTW for all it's faults wasn't as plodding as WoK. And other series starters, like say GoT, easily avoid that kind of shit. It's not a matter of "starting a series" it's a matter of bad writing.

As for the characters, I find them just annoying. Not totally stock at least, but not any less stock then the Mistborn ones. Except for what's-his-face the main guy character in WoK who was the stockiest of stock characters and might as well have come off an assembly line for "fantasy hero protagonist".

[Solmyr]

I disagree completely. A first book is no excuse for shitty repetitive writing and plotting. I mean, even EOTW for all it's faults wasn't as plodding as WoK. And other series starters, like say GoT, easily avoid that kind of shit. It's not a matter of "starting a series" it's a matter of bad writing.

As for the characters, I find them just annoying. Not totally stock at least, but not any less stock then the Mistborn ones. Except for what's-his-face the main guy character in WoK who was the stockiest of stock characters and might as well have come off an assembly line for "fantasy hero protagonist".

I see...

Firstly, this will be my last post on the topic, as we've sufficiently polluted the AMoL thread :). There are other ways and places to continue the discussion, should we wish to.

The comparison with WoT and asoiaf is at best, inapt - asoiaf was planned as a triology - of course stuff will be happening in GoT. It was supposed to be 1/3 of the series. Similar story with WoT. RJ had stated, after EotW that the world is just about heading for the last battle ... hardly anyone at this point expected 14 more books. In contrast SA is planned as a 10-volume series.

Both Jordan and Martin have had dragging books. Only difference is those came in the middle of the series, as that is when they changed their plans about the lengths of respective series. Admittedly, AFfC was of better quality than WoK, but then again asoiaf will probably be of better quality than SA once both are finished. Moreover, by the time we picked up AFfC we were already invested in a great fantasy series. Not so with WoK yet. As for WoT - although the series is my second favourite, I would rather re-read WoK thrice than have to endure CoT again, even a single time.

As for the characters in WoK - I can see you've read the book, but it is also obvious you have not researched more about the series online. Although the first book focuses on Kaladin, he is not the main character by a mile and for all we know he may not even turn out to be a protagonist in the long run. BS has indicated that each of the [first five] books will focus on one specific character, as WoK did on Kaladin, revealing their past. So far we know the second volume will cover Shallan. IIRC Szeth and Dalinar will also have their own chapters in this grand story.

My metaphorical advice is not to judge a book by its cover - the book being the Stormlight Archive series and the cover being WoK.

[AverageGuy]

The comparison with WoT and asoiaf is at best, inapt - asoiaf was planned as a triology - of course stuff will be happening in GoT.

Disagree with the principle. Just something being planned doesn't prevent bloat- see Malazan. Also CoT, it was meant to mostly be a single day where people reacted to the cleansing of saidin, but that doesn't excuse anything.

[Fossoway]

I just finished the book -- after re-reading the other two Sanderson WoT novels right before I dug into it (I'm about Sanderson-ed out). One thing I found lacking in Rand's "lovelife" was this: a lot of the final three books was devoted to talking about rebirth in the Pattern, and the big revelation Rand had when he finally became one with Lews Therin -- that Lews Therin's great love of his life, Ilyena, would also be reborn in the Pattern. Yet we're left with carefree Rand, his harem (who may or may not follow him like lovesick puppies), and no sign of Ilyena at the end. IMO, when and if Rand comes across Ilyena reborn, he's dropping the other three like hot potatoes (sorry, Elayne and Avienda -- forget about that child support and future booty calls. See: Lanfear).

If there's a sequel in the offering (and let's be honest -- if there's more money to be made, the sequel IS being written as we speak), I'd want it be the story of the Mat-Min-Tuon retaking of Seanchan. Attempted assassinations! Cultural clashes! Throne room maneuvering and betrayals! More shocked faces and outrage when Mat calls the Empress "Tuon" instead of "Fortuona"! Maybe -- leftover Darkfriends and Grey Men! Mat complaining about the lace on his cuffs and mistakenly elevating servants to the High Blood with discarded fingernails, left and right! The possibilities are endless!

[awesome possum]

Is this the place where I can bitch about how much I hate Brandon Sanderson with the white hot intensity of ten thousand suns? Because I do. Dude butchered my favorite series.

This is the same series that produced Winter's Heard and Crossroads of Twilight, right? How does one butcher something that's already been pretty well butchered?

[Shryke]

I see...

Firstly, this will be my last post on the topic, as we've sufficiently polluted the AMoL thread :). There are other ways and places to continue the discussion, should we wish to.

The comparison with WoT and asoiaf is at best, inapt - asoiaf was planned as a triology - of course stuff will be happening in GoT. It was supposed to be 1/3 of the series. Similar story with WoT. RJ had stated, after EotW that the world is just about heading for the last battle ... hardly anyone at this point expected 14 more books. In contrast SA is planned as a 10-volume series.

Both Jordan and Martin have had dragging books. Only difference is those came in the middle of the series, as that is when they changed their plans about the lengths of respective series. Admittedly, AFfC was of better quality than WoK, but then again asoiaf will probably be of better quality than SA once both are finished. Moreover, by the time we picked up AFfC we were already invested in a great fantasy series. Not so with WoK yet. As for WoT - although the series is my second favourite, I would rather re-read WoK thrice than have to endure CoT again, even a single time.

If your best complement is "It's not as bad as COT", you might as well just insult the book, it's simpler.

GoT may have been intended as a trilogy when he started writing it, but it sure as hell wasn't when he finished. GoT is obviously not a 3rd of the overall story, even as set up in GoT. WoT RJ maybe had some delusions about how quickly he could tell his story, but that book is way less slow and repetitive.

And finally, even if any of this was true, it still wouldn't matter because being the first of a 10 volume series is no excuse for sucking. And it certainly doesn't excuse the shit prose.

As for the characters in WoK - I can see you've read the book, but it is also obvious you have not researched more about the series online. Although the first book focuses on Kaladin, he is not the main character by a mile and for all we know he may not even turn out to be a protagonist in the long run. BS has indicated that each of the [first five] books will focus on one specific character, as WoK did on Kaladin, revealing their past. So far we know the second volume will cover Shallan. IIRC Szeth and Dalinar will also have their own chapters in this grand story.

Yes, each of the books will have a specific character focus. This time, it was Kaladin, hence me calling him the main character of the book. He gets the most screentime by far. And he's generic as all hell.

]My metaphorical advice is not to judge a book by its cover - the book being the Stormlight Archive series and the cover being WoK.

It's a book, not a cover. It's like 1000 freaking pages. And it's dull and drawn out and bloated. You don't get to pretend you can't judge a book by 1000 of not-very-good.

[Shryke]

This is the same series that produced Winter's Heard and Crossroads of Twilight, right? How does one butcher something that's already been pretty well butchered?

Easily.

WH and CoT may have had some bad pacing issues (CoT especially), but the prose was still as good as ever (your choice where that places on your general scale of prose-quality, but it was as good as any of the other parts of the series) and everything still tied together and made sense and was coherent and the characters were still consistent.

[Shryke]

I just finished the book -- after re-reading the other two Sanderson WoT novels right before I dug into it (I'm about Sanderson-ed out). One thing I found lacking in Rand's "lovelife" was this: a lot of the final three books was devoted to talking about rebirth in the Pattern, and the big revelation Rand had when he finally became one with Lews Therin -- that Lews Therin's great love of his life, Ilyena, would also be reborn in the Pattern. Yet we're left with carefree Rand, his harem (who may or may not follow him like lovesick puppies), and no sign of Ilyena at the end. IMO, when and if Rand comes across Ilyena reborn, he's dropping the other three like hot potatoes (sorry, Elayne and Avienda -- forget about that child support and future booty calls. See: Lanfear).

I don't see Ilyena reborn ever showing up. It just ... doesn't matter that much. Especially to the story of the series itself.

If there's a sequel in the offering (and let's be honest -- if there's more money to be made, the sequel IS being written as we speak), I'd want it be the story of the Mat-Min-Tuon retaking of Seanchan. Attempted assassinations! Cultural clashes! Throne room maneuvering and betrayals! More shocked faces and outrage when Mat calls the Empress "Tuon" instead of "Fortuona"! Maybe -- leftover Darkfriends and Grey Men! Mat complaining about the lace on his cuffs and mistakenly elevating servants to the High Blood with discarded fingernails, left and right! The possibilities are endless!

That was RJ's plan for the outrigger novels. As of right now, they aren't getting done. There's no information on them in RJ's notes at all.