Boarders Writing a Novel: Take 8

[First of My Name]

I am writing my own story as well, but it's more of a series of about 300-page stories. I have about 200,000 words but as I am only fifteen I don't really have experience of some sort. Does anyone have any advice with which I could improve my story?

[Zoë Sumra]

The problem that I've had is that since I finished the draft, I've failed to make serious progress on editing it and the other writing that I'm doing, short stories mostly, hasn't increased to explain the shortfall. I'm looking at changing my habits, because I think I need to go somewhere specific to write, I can't just turn on my laptop and start typing away (well I can sometimes, but rarely with much consistency). I do get annoyed with myself for this, because the amount of time I'm wasting (which includes my current 'lap-top on' session) could be used for vast amounts of writing. I can only envy writers who write all the time or to rigorous schedules.

I find it a lot easier to work to a schedule when editing than writing first drafts, largely because I can edit no matter what I'm feeling like, whereas drafting, for me, requires a certain amount of mental space. It's harder if you don't like editing or feel that you're not as good at it as you might be. Have you thought about why you seem not to be able to buckle down to it? Having a problem with something is fine, so long as you can figure out why you have a problem with it and therefore can make progress towards fixing it.

I am writing my own story as well, but it's more of a series of about 300-page stories. I have about 200,000 words but as I am only fifteen I don't really have experience of some sort. Does anyone have any advice with which I could improve my story?

It depends on how you think you could improve it. Do you think your characters aren't interesting enough? Despite finishing several 300-page stories, do you think your plot structuring could be better? Do you know your editing isn't what it could be, or your prose isn't polished?

Practice, practice, practice fixes a lot of issues, especially the prose part (I started writing at twelve, and decided I was happy with my prose fifteen years later). There are narrative tricks you can use to make your characters come to life a bit more, and exercises to assist your plot structuring.

How many words are you getting into your 300 pages, btw? If those are typed pages, that's usually novel-length, depending on the DTP program.

[First of My Name]

It depends on how you think you could improve it. Do you think your characters aren't interesting enough? Despite finishing several 300-page stories, do you think your plot structuring could be better? Do you know your editing isn't what it could be, or your prose isn't polished?

Practice, practice, practice fixes a lot of issues, especially the prose part (I started writing at twelve, and decided I was happy with my prose fifteen years later). There are narrative tricks you can use to make your characters come to life a bit more, and exercises to assist your plot structuring.

How many words are you getting into your 300 pages, btw? If those are typed pages, that's usually novel-length, depending on the DTP program.

I just checked and 300 might be a bit exaggarated, but it's a good 71,000 and 59,000 words for two semi-finished stories. It's 45,000 for another one (is that much btw, I don't have anything to compare it to.) As to interesting characters, I have some that I am really proud of but others can be bland, I think. I recently asked my mom to read the 45000 w. story, so I'll have to hear what she says. She was ery enthousiastic about the prose of the part she had read, but that's probably because I'm her son IMO. Anyway thanks for the answer.

[Frank Fitzpatrick]

I am writing my own story as well, but it's more of a series of about 300-page stories. I have about 200,000 words but as I am only fifteen I don't really have experience of some sort. Does anyone have any advice with which I could improve my story?

I find that the best way to improve your own work (besides from a lot of writing i.e. practice of course) is to constantly read lots of books, watch lots of films and TV series so that you come up with different, some times better, ideas which you can then implement into your own work, without directly plagiarizing of course... :P

[First of My Name]

I find that the best way to improve your own work (besides from a lot of writing i.e. practice of course) is to constantly read lots of books, watch lots of films and TV series so that you come up with different, some times better, ideas which you can then implement into your own work, without directly plagiarizing of course... :P

I do that all the time, lol. A lot of elements from my book are adapted ideas from books or tv. I seem to read more than any friend of mine does so that should be going the right way. Thank you for the reply.

[Jaime's Wench]

Reading through your own work is necessary too. You have to start reading it with a critical eye, as it's easy to switch off when reading your own stuff, especially the third or fourth read through. I go to the gym and read mine while doing low-cardio exercise - stops me switching off or skim reading. I would also say look for beta readers who are not friends/family. Ask people to look at small sections first and see if they offer to read more.

[AdXRoss]

I find it a lot easier to work to a schedule when editing than writing first drafts, largely because I can edit no matter what I'm feeling like, whereas drafting, for me, requires a certain amount of mental space. It's harder if you don't like editing or feel that you're not as good at it as you might be. Have you thought about why you seem not to be able to buckle down to it? Having a problem with something is fine, so long as you can figure out why you have a problem with it and therefore can make progress towards fixing it.

I think motivation is the chief factor. Whilst I'm very happy with much of my work and I'm quite savage in the edit and quite prepared to change things if I think they require it (having plenty of experience with my PhD thesis and the many student films I've worked on), I have had an underlying sense that my chances of getting it published are extremely remote (based upon the scale and length of the book as much as anything) and so I've had the feeling that I need to do a lot of other stuff before I can really think about shopping it around agents and publishers (such as getting a few professional short stories published first and possibly even a smaller, simpler novel). This, combined with general life busyness, has seriously de-motivated me. I've done plenty of re-reading and pruning, but I'm finding it difficult to actually attack a proper edit in a concerted manner.

[Zoë Sumra]

I just checked and 300 might be a bit exaggarated, but it's a good 71,000 and 59,000 words for two semi-finished stories. It's 45,000 for another one (is that much btw, I don't have anything to compare it to.) As to interesting characters, I have some that I am really proud of but others can be bland, I think. I recently asked my mom to read the 45000 w. story, so I'll have to hear what she says. She was ery enthousiastic about the prose of the part she had read, but that's probably because I'm her son IMO. Anyway thanks for the answer.

According to the Hugo Award definitions, anything above 40,000 words is novel-length, though in practice for adult genre fiction sales a novel tends to start at 80,000.

For feedback I'd try a writing group or even an English teacher. Family members make great cheerleaders but not, unless you are related to my sister, good beta readers.

Whilst I'm very happy with much of my work and I'm quite savage in the edit and quite prepared to change things if I think they require it (having plenty of experience with my PhD thesis and the many student films I've worked on), I have had an underlying sense that my chances of getting it published are extremely remote (based upon the scale and length of the book as much as anything) and so I've had the feeling that I need to do a lot of other stuff before I can really think about shopping it around agents and publishers (such as getting a few professional short stories published first and possibly even a smaller, simpler novel).

How big are we talking? I can't remember if you've said this already, so apologies if you have.

It's hard to sell over 120K in the US market or over 150K in the UK market. A shorter and simpler one is a possible tactic - but not at the expense of ditching everything you've got, particularly if editing the long one gives you the extra percentage of experience required to complete the shorter one to the best possible standard.

If we all concentrated on our percentage chances of getting published, we'd never write or edit anything. Blot that out, set off the mental cheerleaders, and get to work. :whip:

[Jaime's Wench]

I agree.

Luckily for me, I enjoy writing and editing. I sometimes get too excited about my work and wonder why others don't share my enthusiasm. My problem at the moment isn't motivation - I would happily spend all day tomorrow doing nothing but working on my novel. But those History lessons won't teach themselves!

[Ebenstone]

Okay, really quickly let me just say what I say whenever someone begins to doubt their writing and the "worth" of it:

IF YOU CAN STOP WRITING...STOP!

I don't know about you...but I can't.

Okay, back to the salt mines, three plot monkeys are throwing poop at me and demand attention. Summer is coming and that means writing time for yours truly.

[Myrddin]

Okay, back to the salt mines, three plot monkeys are throwing poop at me and demand attention. Summer is coming and that means writing time for yours truly.

I'm the opposite. My muses throw poop at me while the plot bunnies flash shiney things in my direction.

[First of My Name]

For now I'm just writing for the fun of it. I love creating my own world (my story is set on a fictional world called Ensekyrai and the current timeline spans 1600 years, with the planned stories covering the last 300 of those). Also, since I'm not clinging to a certain genre, the subjects can be very different. One story, for example, chronicles all-out-war for survival, but another is about a journalist planning to commit suicide. Another is about a boy drifting farther and farther away from his principles and eentually murdering his own brother. For me, it never gets boring. I get a lot of joy out of simply expanding everything.

[Gabriele]

Plotbunnies are evil, they keep bringing family and friends and then I get another Several Books monster.

[Francis Buck]

snip

Thanks for the tips dude. Agreed on all of them. I haven't worked on this anymore, I'm trying to focus my efforts on my "real" novel, it was just sort of something to cleanse the palette, if you will. I might get back around to it at some point though. Was hoping some other people would post snippets of their own, but it hasn't happened yet.

[First of My Name]

Thanks for the tips dude. Agreed on all of them. I haven't worked on this anymore, I'm trying to focus my efforts on my "real" novel, it was just sort of something to cleanse the palette, if you will. I might get back around to it at some point though. Was hoping some other people would post snippets of their own, but it hasn't happened yet.

I could post some passages from my book, but the grammar would be very poor as I would have to translate it, my book's in Dutch. But I'd be willing to go the extra mile, I'd love to get some commantary. Btw, what are plot bunnies?

[Myrddin]

Was hoping some other people would post snippets of their own, but it hasn't happened yet.

Most of us refrain from posting large chunks of writing on public boards.

Personally, I get my feedback through online writer groups with private areas (like fmwriters.com or absolutewrite.com) and through beta readers (writer friends and select reader friends). There is a BWB writer's forum, but the last I checked, it's pretty dead.

Right now, I'm reviewing a novella for Ebenstone (it's coming, man. :) ). A real critique takes time and effort to do, so I tend not to comment on posted materials in these threads. Generally speaking, these BWAN threads tend to lean toward part support group, part business Q&A, and part promotion. If people don't comment on your snippet, don't take it as a slight.

[First of My Name]

So, here is a passage from the final chapter of one of my stories. I'll give a quick background so you can follow:

Two orders dedicated to justice exist, the Grey Order and the Astesti. The Astesti are extremist where the GO is not. The GO was led by Kyrem Holden, who had two sons, Autem and Wigner. Kyrem betrayed the GO and the Astesti slaughtered every member, but the two sons escaped. Kyrem became the leader of the Astesti. Years later, Wigner dedicated himself to revenge and Kyrem had him killed when Wigner made his move. Autem, who had parted ways with his brother, had decided to come help Wigner, but he's too late. He now enters Kyrem's throne room, where a slaughter has taken place. (Also, both sons believed their father dead).

I hope you enjoy!

Autem entered the hall.

Corpses lay everywhere, and the sole living person inside was seated on a wooden throne in the middle of the chamber. It was an old man, and it took a moment for him to register the visitor.

Is this him? Autem wondered. Is this the leader of the Astesti? He had to be. He walked closer, feeling cold all over his body.

The old man looked him in the eyes, and in that instant, Autem's heart nearly broke free of his chest. The eyes. Grey eyes. My eyes.

He wanted to scream of joy and grief, but the sounds would not come. How could this be?

Kyrem Holden looked at him. Autem had expected recognition, compassion, love, relief, but there was only coldness in the grey eyes.

Autem's gaze fell to the limp body at Kyrem's feet. He had known, with a certainty, that Wigner was not alive anymore, that he had come too late. But to see him lying there....

He did this. My father killed my brother. He killed Wigner.

Autem never stopped walking towards the throne, and Kyrem never stopped looking at him. Both men wanted to ask the other a thousand questions, and both knew the way this would end.

One the floor lay a dagger that someone had dropped. Autem picked it up. For Wigner. You were right, brother, you were right all along. And yet you were so, so wrong.

Kyrem seemed to want to speak, but decided against it. He finally looked away. And right then, Autem knew what must be done.

'I loved you, father,' Autem said as he stepped forward, crying without sound. 'But I loved my brother more.'

With all the strength his battered body could muster, he thrust the dagger in Kyrem's heart.

His father gasped for air, and for a horrifying instant he suffered, not quite dead. Autem wanted to look away, but couldn't.

Then Kyrem's eyes and mouth closed, and he didn't move anymore.

Autem fell to his knees. He looked at Wigner's body, and then at his father's old face. And in that very moment he wished to be dead himself, for he did not know what life was worth, if he had to feel this pain for the rest of his days.

Please comment!

[Frank Fitzpatrick]

So, here is a passage from the final chapter of one of my stories. I'll give a quick background so you can follow:

Two orders dedicated to justice exist, the Grey Order and the Astesti. The Astesti are extremist where the GO is not. The GO was led by Kyrem Holden, who had two sons, Autem and Wigner. Kyrem betrayed the GO and the Astesti slaughtered every member, but the two sons escaped. Kyrem became the leader of the Astesti. Years later, Wigner dedicated himself to revenge and Kyrem had him killed when Wigner made his move. Autem, who had parted ways with his brother, had decided to come help Wigner, but he's too late. He now enters Kyrem's throne room, where a slaughter has taken place. (Also, both sons believed their father dead).

I hope you enjoy!

Autem entered the hall.

Corpses lay everywhere, and the sole living person inside was seated on a wooden throne in the middle of the chamber. It was an old man, and it took a moment for him to register the visitor.

Is this him? Autem wondered. Is this the leader of the Astesti? He had to be. He walked closer, feeling cold all over his body.

The old man looked him in the eyes, and in that instant, Autem's heart nearly broke free of his chest. The eyes. Grey eyes. My eyes.

He wanted to scream of joy and grief, but the sounds would not come. How could this be?

Kyrem Holden looked at him. Autem had expected recognition, compassion, love, relief, but there was only coldness in the grey eyes.

Autem's gaze fell to the limp body at Kyrem's feet. He had known, with a certainty, that Wigner was not alive anymore, that he had come too late. But to see him lying there....

He did this. My father killed my brother. He killed Wigner.

Autem never stopped walking towards the throne, and Kyrem never stopped looking at him. Both men wanted to ask the other a thousand questions, and both knew the way this would end.

One the floor lay a dagger that someone had dropped. Autem picked it up. For Wigner. You were right, brother, you were right all along. And yet you were so, so wrong.

Kyrem seemed to want to speak, but decided against it. He finally looked away. And right then, Autem knew what must be done.

'I loved you, father,' Autem said as he stepped forward, crying without sound. 'But I loved my brother more.'

With all the strength his battered body could muster, he thrust the dagger in Kyrem's heart.

His father gasped for air, and for a horrifying instant he suffered, not quite dead. Autem wanted to look away, but couldn't.

Then Kyrem's eyes and mouth closed, and he didn't move anymore.

Autem fell to his knees. He looked at Wigner's body, and then at his father's old face. And in that very moment he wished to be dead himself, for he did not know what life was worth, if he had to feel this pain for the rest of his days.

Please comment!

Obviously I'm reading only a small sample and it is out of context but it shows that you can write.

Your prose are completely different to my own though, (which isn't a bad thing) and it definitely suits Fantasy.

[First of My Name]

Obviously I'm reading only a small sample and it is out of context but it shows that you can write.

Your prose are completely different to my own though, (which isn't a bad thing) and it definitely suits Fantasy.

Thank you very, very much. You're the first non-family reader, in fact, even if it's only one passage. This is the kind of reply that I didn't dare hope for as I thought my writing will need a LOT of improvement. Btw, I would love to read a passage of your story!

PS My story is indeed fantasy, so I guess my prose should be fantastic :P

[SkynJay]

I am trying a new tact. I have sent stories to the abandoned pile as they grew out of my control. Or I have a storyline I love surrounded by stuff that just isn't doing it for me.

So last week I started a brand new story, in a new world, this time fully intending to keep it shortened into a serial format. One, maybe two threads. Novellas instead of books and see how it works. Maybe I can come up with something that works better for me.

Not sure if there is a market for it at all, but I currently have high hopes that it will work better for me.