[BOOK SPOILERS] How will the TV series divide up book 4 and 5?

[total1402]

OP

Quite simple. The way I see it they will be putting ADWD and AFFC material into their two ASOS seasons. Basiclly they will put the Ironborn material (inc Theon) into those series and allow them to move events much faster. The new extended trailer shows Yara (Asha to us) among the Ironborn soldiers again. If we take the episode names as an indicator then "The Rains of Castamere" has to be the Red Wedding. If that happens it tells us that this season Yara will at least have to deal with Balons death this season. But what is she going to do next season? IMO it means next season the Kingsmoot (which I think chronologiclly is the same time as ASOS) will occur and probably have Euron unveiling the horn as the finale of that arc. For Theon, they are not going to just have him tortured by Ramsey for two seasons. IMO, by season 4 he will betray the Ironborn at Moat Calin to show just how far he has fallen. This sets things up quite nicely for combining ADWD n AFFC coz Theon is already on his way to Winterfell. Euron is King and about to strike the Reach speeding up Cerseis arc in Kings Landing, Asha has fled to Deepwood ready to be captured by Stannis and getting Vic off to a good headstart. If RW is this season it would also mean that we will see more of Arya in Braavos than we see during the books. But basiclly, they will resolve a lot of issues by putting the ASOS time period Ironborn material into the next two series. Thats how I think they will accomplish it.

[Fat of the Canals]

I think it's possible for GRRM and HBO to schedule things so that they stay on pace. TWOW is scheduled for release in 2015 and is supposed to be very long. Given the type of things we expect the plot to contain, I would anticipate HBO needing 2 seasons for TWOW, as they're doing with ASOS. If this happens, it would look like:

2013 Season 3 ASOS part 1

2014 Season 4 ASOS part 2, possibly beginnings of AFFC/ADWD

2015 Season 5 AFFC/ADWD part 1

2016 Season 6 AFFC/ADWD part 2

2017 Season 7 TWOW part 1 (shouldn't be an issue to film on time if GRRM finishes in 2015, or even if release is delayed until 2016)

2018 Season 8 TWOW part 2

2019 Season 9 Unclear. They certainly could choose to take a year off (i.e. the Sopranos). They could also choose to flesh out AFFC/ADWD/TWOW in a way that provides an extra season of content, but there would likely be issues with story pace. Of course, it's always possible to add content not included in the books to spice things up. Another option would be for them to split TWOW into 3 seasons.

2020 Season 9 ADOS part 1

2021 Season 10 ADOS part 2

2019 is where things get very tricky. If we assume GRRM stays on schedule, which is no guarantee obviously, TWOW will be released in 2015, meaning a 4-year gap between ADWD and TWOW. If we then assume another 4-year gap, ADOS would be finished in 2019. This would mean that the first part of ADOS for GOT (also supposed to be a long book, and likely a 2 part season) would be released in 2020, giving HBO the latter part of 2019 to film that season. The lack of new content for 2019 could be approached in a couple ways: 1) fleshing out TWOW into 3 seasons, with the third part released in 2019, 2) taking 2019 as a gap year, which the actors might welcome to work on other projects, but HBO would obviously not want nor would the fan base, as GOT realistically could be the most popular show on TV by that point. The biggest issue will be if GRRM's work on TWOW is significantly delayed, and not released until 2017 or so. This would obviously be a huge problem, not so much because the TWOW portion of GOT would be delayed, but because waiting around for ADOS to be finished, on top of that delay, would be interminable. A 2-year gap between seasons is undesirable but possible. Any longer would threaten the shows ability to be finished at all, considering the difficulty in retaining actors, older actors possibly dying, etc.

So for these purposes, it would be ideal if GRRM doesn't take 6 years to complete the remaining books (as he's done before, between AFFC and ADWD). I do think he'll want to stay on schedule if at all possible, if for no other reason than to be able to make sure he'll be able to finish his life's work. I doubt he feels he "owes" it to HBO to stay on schedule, nor should he. I also don't think any fans of the books want him to rush for the sake of finishing them quickly.

[Cloaked]

There's a little to breakdown -

1 = I see AFFC and ADWD being two seasons, told concurrently. It really wouldn't be that crazy to pull it off in one, telling the story linearly will make it harder to setup the season formula

2= HBO has the rights to tv adaptation of the books, they don't have to (nor will they) wait until the books are published. D+D know where the story is supposed to go, even if they stepped down as showrunners they'd be replaced

3 = The show has to get renewed each year long enough for the whole story to be told anyways. What's crazy is I wonder what D+D would do if HBO said to end it in five years (after 5 total seasons) and they knew going in they had to give some closure (as opposed to being cancelled after a cliff-hanger)

4 = The show has to thrive on the momentum they have, if the hype and craze keep up they will milk it, but they are going to want to keep this train chugging

5 = No way ADOS is out before the show catches up... let us pray WOW is out before the show catches up.

6 = GRRM knew it was a possibility of the show surpassing him when he signed the rights over and was asked prior the first season airing about it and responded to the effect of "I have a really good head start" which to me would indicate he understands if they pass him they pass him

Its a certainty if the show doesn't get cancelled they will wrap the show before the story is told in print. If that does happen I'll have to wait to watch the show and give up the internet until the book is out. That will suck... but I've been following this story way too long now to not get the satisfaction of holding that final book in my hands and experiencing the read!

[Cloaked]

Two more thoughts=

1 GRRM cant say for certain the book we are now calling ADOS will be the last book... just throwing that out there

2 It's theoretically POSSIBLE the show could go on and on, but realistically, what actor is going to stay on board untl 2019?

[Sun]

From this extended trailer released this weekend, we can see that both Theon (being tortured) and Asha (walking among Ironborn) are in this season - with probably non-canon material. This makes it very likely that some of their AFFC and ADWD arcs, will be brought forward into season 4. This would be confirmed if Victarion, Damphair and Euron are cast next year, along with possibly Wyman Manderly.

So, books 4 & 5 will be combined. A portion of the story will be in Season 4, the rest of which will be in season 5. AFFC and ADWD combined will probably, imo, take up about 13 episodes including one battle.

Edited to correct Wyman Manderly's name.

[Florina Laufeyson]

Feast and Dance's events will happen as if they are one timeline. In one linear motion. Its the only way it would make sense in the adaption.

Meaning, yeah we will probably see Cersei's arc and Tyrion's arc happen in the same season/episodes/etc.

[total1402]

From this extended trailer released this weekend, we can see that both Theon (being tortured) and Asha (walking among Ironborn) are in this season, which makes it very likely that some of their AFFC and ADWD arcs, will be brought forward into season 4. This will be confirmed if Victarion, Damphair and Euron are cast next year.

So, books 4 & 5 will be combined. A portion of the story will be in Season 4, the rest of which will be in season 5. AFFC and ADWD combined will probably, imo, take up about 13 episodes including one battle.

Yeah I entirely agree. They want to tell a good story and taking two seasons of travelling without any sense of conclusion won't work. So they'll shunt a lot of the Ironborn material into season 4 and that will massively speed up the story. Early season 5 I would expect Theon on his way to Winterfell, Asha capturedf by Stannis, Euron invading the Reach and Vic being sent on his mission. This will massively speed up ADWD?AFFC and they will probably have the Battles of Ice n Fire; certainly the former.

[Stannisport]

Well if they split up each book into two seasons, and then fill in with a lot of stuff we didn't directly read in the books, I don't think there'll be a problem. They could for instance get a whole episode out of the battle in front of Yunkai, Cersei making catastrophes in KL or the sack of Mereen.

Then they would be done with the two ADWD season in 2018, and I've read rumors, that WoW might be published already in 2014/2015, so I don't think time will be a problem.

[Waylin Stark]

2 seasons for AFFC and ADWD. They'll proceed chronologically, with probably lots of condensation of Brienne, Tyrion, Jon, Dany, Dorne and Greyjoys. Lots of the stuff would be really boring on TV.

But maybe they'll branch out, and include fillers. If they do expand it so much as to 3 seasons, the last season would probably involve the last 1/3rd of ADWD plus the two great battles ADWD was building up to.

Hopefully TWOW comes out in late 2014. GRRM said he's finished about 400 pages a few months ago, if he works hard enough this year and the next, he cold finish.

S4: 2nd half of ASOS - 2014

S5: 1st half of AFFC and ADWD - 2015

S6: 2nd half of AFFC and ADWD - 2016

S7: 1st half of TWOW - 2017 (TWOW could be a large book that needs a split)

S8: 2nd half of TWOW - 2018

If GRRM really picks up the pace, I guess he can release ADOS by 2018. Else it seems that the later seasons will have a hiatus for a year to give him time to catch up, or the seasons will start airing later in the year instead of in Spring.

[total1402]

No I think AFFC n ADWD will only be one season. The vast majority of that material was character introspection and description of places. The TV series naturally cannot do that; they won't make a season without any kind of conclusion. Plus I do think a lot of the Ironborn material like Theon getting Moat Calin and the Kingsmoot; will be in season 4. Plus I think you're being way too optimistic about late 2014 for WoW. If you can spend 5 years writing a novel then the author will make full use of that time to rewrite the book and get it perfect in his eyes. five to six years is the going rate and theres very little reason to assume it will return to what it was due to the number of POV characters he has to now juggle. Late 2016 is a much more solid bet and thats assuming he doesn't decide to split the novel again because of too many characters. It really won't surprise me if the TV series catches up to him before WoW is released and by a wide margin.

[Currawong]

Suggest people should pay attention to the November 2012 interview with writer Bryan Cogman about dividing up the books across seasons:-

From now on we’re not looking at a book per season,” Cogman confirms. “There’s going to be a lot more blending of elements from all the books as needed. You might see bits from other books, it just depends what each story needs in terms of adapting for televison.

Given this plus other comments, I think it reasonable to say that we may be looking at 4 seasons - 40 episodes - to tell 'the story' of ASOS, AFFC and ADWD.

[Ordos]

I don't know how many seasons the TV show will run, but It's 99% (It has not been officially announced = 1% doubt) certain that there will be a Season 4 to conclude the events of Book 3 as the first 3 books are the first phase of the story. Book 4 and 5 is Act 2.

Since there is not much happening in Books 4 and 5 other than a buildup to major events, unless season 4 ends on some sort of cliffhanger to leave viewers wanting more, HBO can safely give some sense of closure to the TV series. Of course the readers will want more, but those who only watch TV will probably not be very upset at the series ending at Season 4. I know this is not the case. I can see some people saying: There WILL be a Season 5! I'm just saying the producers won't feel that there must be another season to give a sense of closure as the first phase of the story has been completed.

It will depend on GRRM completing book 6 in time so the producers will feel a couple or even a single season of filler will be worth it.

[Pod The Impaler]

Well, the one thing I am certaion of is I do not think they will split up AFFC and ADWD as the books; it would have to be chronological.

ASOS (most of) will be this season (3)

ASOS remnants + front end of AFFC next season (4)

rest of AFFC + early ADWD after that (5)

And then it can return to alignment ?

[TheSpottedCat]

I think the most rational way would be that since a lot of the plotlines from books 4 and 5 are happening simultaneously, to put both books together in chronological order and then divide the whole thing into 2 or 3 seasons. That's what makes the most sense to me, since the series so far has progressed more or less chronologically, with no flashbacks, or going back and forth in time. It would make it more streamlined and easier to follow. In any case, the whole thing is one story, divided into volumes for the sake of convenience, so they don't need to keep the seasons strictly in line with the books.

[Saint Arya]

I think they could make AFFC and ADWD into three seasons if they needed to and stretch it out to give GRRM more time to write. *If* that is needed.

[Kyoti]

They can also show Theon being Reek-ified to add more.

Rewatch the season 3 trailer, that is happening this season.

Also I think it will broken down into ASOS Part 1 (Season 3) ASOS Part 2 (Season 4), then we will get mostly AFFC with a hint of ADWD (Season 5) a full mash up AFFC/ADWD (Season 6) and mostly ADWD with a dash of AFFC (Season 7). That gives GRRM 4 more years to get out WOW and 5 for ADOS with huge pressure to finish them. I think it will all work out. I would not be surprised to see WOW released right after Season 3 just like ADWD was released right after Season 1.

[Gannicus]

AFFC and ADWD will be mixed into 2 seasons.

2013 - ASOS part1

2014 - ASOS part2/some AFFC

2015 - AFFC/ADWD *(I think the series will die here), TWOW gets finished.

2016 - ADWD (or here)

2017 - TWOW part1

2018 - TWOW part2

If GRRM wants to finish the series before 2018, He'll be able to. He has a lot of projects but getting a 1500 pages done in 3 years should be no problem if he really wants to. He has been able to spit books out quickly in the past and if he truly knows where the pieces are going to fall A Dream of Spring should should be one of the easier books to write.

[PatrickStormborn]

Merge them into one season for season 5, but push some bits forward into season 4 and some bits back to season 6. Simple.

They can't drag Dany's story post-Yunkai (i.e. her last two ASoS chapters and her ten ADwD chapters) out for three seasons.

[Gannicus]

Merge them into one season for season 5, but push some bits forward into season 4 and some bits back to season 6. Simple.

They can't drag Dany's story post-Yunkai (i.e. her last two ASoS chapters and her ten ADwD chapters) out for three seasons.

I agree with you there. The show can't let Mereen last more than a season or the whole thing will tank.

[Ordos]

A followup question: If Season 4 is going to be the remainder of Book 3 and some parts of books 4 and 5, what will Episode 9 and 10 have? What big early event of books 4 and 5 could the season end with?