[BOOK SPOILERS] How will the TV series divide up book 4 and 5?

[cade]

Why do people don't listen? They said that they see GoT last at least 80 episodes. but that they don't know, because they take the story season per season.

I'm listening to the people who are running and plotting the show and recently met with GRRM to learn how the story ends. Here again is the link to Benioff saying, "If we tried to turn this into a 10-season show we'd strangle the golden goose."

And here is another revealing statement from Benioff: "Season 3 is probably the biggest in terms of the number of new characters, number of new stories overall," Benioff explained. "The universe has expanded as much as it's going to, and now it's going to contract... As pieces start to get removed from the chessboard, we'll have fewer on there. We're nearly to the midpoint (of the story), and it'll be interesting to see what's going forward with the endgame."

What is your source for Benioff or Weiss saying they see GoT lasting "at least" 80 episodes?

They did not say that here: "We have the opportunity here to tell a coherent story that lasts for 80 hours."

or here: "The ideal here, if we get time and the generosity of HBO, would be to have say eight seasons and some masochistic viewer started from the beginning and watched 80 hours straight through"

or in the recent

they did with GRRM, when Benioff again referenced an eight season arc (though you could argue in this case that he was only speaking hypothetically).

they will help the man best they can by delaying things

"There's no question that this will be better for us if the books come out before the various seasons come out," Benioff added. "That said, we're not going to take a two-year hiatus (to wait for a book). The little kids are growing older, the show's got momentum now, and the show must go on. We're just hopeful that it will all time out."

[protar]

Yes, they think that it will be a flashback episode. Personally I hope in season 5, because that doesn't have a real major battle of thing that is happening

I think we can safely assume that that won't happen. Why would a random episode in S5 be a flashback episode. A miniseries of Robert's rebellion or of Dunk and Egg would be much more likely if we're getting anything of that sort.

How can Hizdahr propose to marrying Danny in season 4. What will happen in season 5 and 6? that will be 3 danny episodes each. They won't rush through it, they look at it, as that one character has one major change in a season. Season 4 the change for Danny is, become queen. Season 5 is, getting married. Season 6 is, being back at the beginning.

Dany's story in ADWD is widely disliked and will not worked on TV stretched over multiple seasons. Dany can agree to marry Hizdahr in S4 E10. Then S5 can detail Quentyn's arrival, her marriage to Hizdahr and her flying off on Drogon in E5/6. She can vanish for a couple of episodes then we get whatever she's doing with the Dothraki and then the Battle of Fire can make an amazing finale. S6 will then have moved fully into Dany's TWOW material whatever that may be.

I think that it doesn't matter if nothing important is happening with Danny, look at season 2. It's about the overall of the show. And as long as a character gets from one place to another it's ok. I mean what did Danny do in season 2? The season 4, that she takes over Mereen and become queen (the remaining SoS and probably locking up the dragons) is more than season 2. She will get enough screentime for that. They won't rush it.

Dany's arc in S2 was poorly written and un-engaging. That's the general consensus anyway from what I've seen of both book readers and show watchers. Saying that bad writing (and that's what another season where Dany makes little progress is.) is acceptable because there's a precedent for it is exactly the kind of thing that would get the show canceled.

And when I saw an interview with the CEO of GOT I knew that this was his best show ever, so he will let the cash flow as long as possible. I mean the man really changes some features that HBO has because of GOT, he won't do that, if he doesn't think this will last for 10 years. Why put many in something when you only wanted to make 7 seasons?

Yes D+D wants this show to go on for as long as possible. HBO wants it to go on for as long as it's profitable which seems like a long time. So it's in their best interests to condense the least acclaimed parts of the series.

D&D already stated that season 4 will contain little of DwD and FfC. And it's known that the choosing of the new commander, will be in season 5. Why slow Jon's storyline down and rush Danny more than one season ahead?

Can I have a source for that? Especially the notion that Jon being elected Lord Commander will be moved to S5. That sounds incredibly dubious.

And let's be honest, the real work on S4 has yet to really begin, so any comments on it before that are all subject to change.

Season 4: Jon battles. Season 5: Commander. Wildlings. Season 6: living with the wildlings and get's stepped.

Season 4: Davos is at the wall. Season 5: Manderly. Season 6: Skagos.

Season 4: Tyrion just fled KL/ Cercei found her body. So this is the trial season for Tyrion. Season 5: The Eagon season. Probably first JC chapter. Season 6. Going away with Jorah and being a slave. Tricky thing this because Tyrion's chapters are amazing on screen and a lot, and that means that battle at Mereen will be season 7. So season 6 will be a lot about escaping. WoW stuff.

Season 4: SoS stuff and caging Dragons. Season 5: Marrying and everybody goes to Danny, yes that will be thing that drives Danny's storyline is season 5 not her story self, but everybody searching for her. Season 6: Escaping dragon/ fighting pits. Little bit with Dothraki.

season 4/5 for bran is difficult.

Season 4: Arya going to Braavos. Season 5: Living in Braavos, and some sam things. Season 6: Being blind and WoW stuff.

Season 4: Sansa, lysa death. Season 5: almost finishing FfC part. This season is about playing the game. Season 6: Going down and WoW stuff.

etc etc etc

I do agree with certain points here, but again I don't think you're pushing far enough into the books.

I think best thing we can do is just waiting till season 3 ends. Then make speculation about season 4 per character. What will be in it, what isn't. I mean people are worrying about characters in every episode. I mean look at Yara, she isn't probably going to be in the show till episode 6 or something.

Maybe we don't get a season 5. And why worrying how they will do this season, when we don't even know what they will do in season 3 and in season 4? It's to far in the future, everything can happen.

I don't really know that the end of S3 will give us much hints as to where the show is going after that, because between S3 and S4 is the divide of the books no longer being chronological. We know roughly were season 3 will end anyway. I think it will only be until we start getting details of S4, and then see S4 in action that we'll be able to say how they're tackling ADWD.

[oierem]

I'm listening to the people who are running and plotting the show and recently met with GRRM to learn how the story ends. Here again is the link to Benioff saying, "If we tried to turn this into a 10-season show we'd strangle the golden goose."

And here is another revealing statement from Benioff: "Season 3 is probably the biggest in terms of the number of new characters, number of new stories overall," Benioff explained. "The universe has expanded as much as it's going to, and now it's going to contract... As pieces start to get removed from the chessboard, we'll have fewer on there. We're nearly to the midpoint (of the story), and it'll be interesting to see what's going forward with the endgame."

What is your source for Benioff or Weiss saying they see GoT lasting "at least" 80 episodes?

They did not say that here: "We have the opportunity here to tell a coherent story that lasts for 80 hours."

or here: "The ideal here, if we get time and the generosity of HBO, would be to have say eight seasons and some masochistic viewer started from the beginning and watched 80 hours straight through"

or in the recent

they did with GRRM, when Benioff again referenced an eight season arc (though you could argue in this case that he was only speaking hypothetically).

"There's no question that this will be better for us if the books come out before the various seasons come out," Benioff added. "That said, we're not going to take a two-year hiatus (to wait for a book). The little kids are growing older, the show's got momentum now, and the show must go on. We're just hopeful that it will all time out."

It seems that the producers are actually starting to think about how to end the series, now that the huge success seems to grant the continuation of it for a few more seasons. I'm glad they're realistically thinking about that, and essentially saying "we're not going to wait until the books are done or keep splitting books to give Martin more time".

So, the 8 season series seems to be what they're going for, and I honestly think the series should not last any longer. So, if you think to the grand structure, Martin for a long time thought about a 6 part-story, divided in two: AGOT, ACOK, ASOS -gap- ADWD,WOW,ADOS. Things have changed, but I think the TV series may copy that divission: season 1-4 tell the first half of the story and seasons 5-8 (PERHAPS with a bit of a time-jump) tell the second half. And since AFFC/ADWD are just the very beginning of that second half, I don't see them spending a lot of time adapting them: just one season, with some events already happening in season 4/delayed until season 6.

[Fez]

Sorry, but you can't make that many predictions and say that something is "probable". Who do you think you are, Maggy the Frog?

Well, if my timeline were followed they'd be "probable" and I have been known to say things that have caused little girls to drown other little girls; but yes I suppose "potential" would be better.

If GoT continues with these ratings and success, why wouldn't HBO give it the 10 seasons it deserves? And people are saying that actors wouldn't want to work for that long, and thats just stupid. First off this is not an ordinary show with 15 principle case members who work 4 months out of a year every year for a show. GoT has 257 cast members at the moment, and for example Charles Dance (Tywin Lannister) shot all of his season 2 scenes in a fortnight, giving him 50 weeks of the year to do other projects, now for characters like Jon, Tyrion and Cersei this is a bit longer, they still don't do very long shoots per year, because of the nature of the show.

When the actors signed on they knew they were signing on for a long time if the show kept getting picked up, and with seasons being renewed after one episode, I can definetly see this show going for 10 seasons.

I suspect they probably would want to keep doing it, but for significantly more money after Season 7, and the budget is already sky-high.

*Snip*

Thanks for compiling all those links. I knew I'd seen those quotes before, but wasn't sure where the sources were.

[Joyful Union]

Yes, they think that it will be a flashback episode. Personally I hope in season 5, because that doesn't have a real major battle of thing that is happening.

How can Hizdahr propose to marrying Danny in season 4. What will happen in season 5 and 6? that will be 3 danny episodes each. They won't rush through it, they look at it, as that one character has one major change in a season. Season 4 the change for Danny is, become queen. Season 5 is, getting married. Season 6 is, being back at the beginning.

I think that it doesn't matter if nothing important is happening with Danny, look at season 2. It's about the overall of the show. And as long as a character gets from one place to another it's ok. I mean what did Danny do in season 2? The season 4, that she takes over Mereen and become queen (the remaining SoS and probably locking up the dragons) is more than season 2. She will get enough screentime for that. They won't rush it.

And when I saw an interview with the CEO of GOT I knew that this was his best show ever, so he will let the cash flow as long as possible. I mean the man really changes some features that HBO has because of GOT, he won't do that, if he doesn't think this will last for 10 years. Why put many in something when you only wanted to make 7 seasons?

D&D already stated that season 4 will contain little of DwD and FfC. And it's known that the choosing of the new commander, will be in season 5. Why slow Jon's storyline down and rush Danny more than one season ahead?

Season 4: Jon battles. Season 5: Commander. Wildlings. Season 6: living with the wildlings and get's stepped.

Season 4: Davos is at the wall. Season 5: Manderly. Season 6: Skagos.

Season 4: Tyrion just fled KL/ Cercei found her body. So this is the trial season for Tyrion. Season 5: The Eagon season. Probably first JC chapter. Season 6. Going away with Jorah and being a slave. Tricky thing this because Tyrion's chapters are amazing on screen and a lot, and that means that battle at Mereen will be season 7. So season 6 will be a lot about escaping. WoW stuff.

Season 4: SoS stuff and caging Dragons. Season 5: Marrying and everybody goes to Danny, yes that will be thing that drives Danny's storyline is season 5 not her story self, but everybody searching for her. Season 6: Escaping dragon/ fighting pits. Little bit with Dothraki.

season 4/5 for bran is difficult.

Season 4: Arya going to Braavos. Season 5: Living in Braavos, and some sam things. Season 6: Being blind and WoW stuff.

Season 4: Sansa, lysa death. Season 5: almost finishing FfC part. This season is about playing the game. Season 6: Going down and WoW stuff.

etc etc etc

I think youve stretched out the DwD and FfC material far beyond what will happen. Many of these storylines youve created for the characters here dont have logical end point, when D&D seem pretty focused on creating arcs for characters.

The Jon material could quite easily be cut into season 5, ending with his assasination. For most of DwD he's just talking with other Nightwatchmen and Wildings, all of that can be cut.

Dany could me married quite quickly, maybe even in Season 4, to actually give her something to do.

Davos's material could easily be in season 5, maybe ending with his arrival on Skagos.

Tyrion is a main character on the show, and I sincerely doubt he'll spend a whole season talking with Aegon. He'll probably get all the way to Mereen, in time to witness the Battle (which could also be the climax of Season 5)

The showrunner's arent going to have two whole seasons without a climax! If anything, they're going to cut down FfC an DwD to the bare essentials, so that people's arcs are actually fulfilled, and so that each season has a climax.

[kevin1989]

@cade: As I said, many interviews he gives, he stated that they don't really know how many seasons the show will get, that they take the story season by season. And they stated that they assume that it will be 8 seasons. And yes it will probably be 8 seasons or 9, but than they have another big problem, when they are looking at season per season, what if they get at the end of season 6, and only go DWD just finished? And the last 2 books will be the amount of DWD and SoS and that there are many new characters again? And what if HBO wants to have more seasons? what if the ratings keep getting up till season 5 or 6? HBO wants more seasons what than? I just meant, we have to just wait till the future, problems can acure where they need more time.

@Protar:

Robert's rebilion is part of the Game of Thrones series and won't be in a miniserie or something. GRRM stated this. http://winteriscomin...eing-discussed/ and about Dany, you didn't get the point I was making. There are many stories in GOT, they won't risk to not show Dany for more than a season, that will happen if you keep her more than a season ahead of the rest. I mean it's already know that the choosing of the new commander will be in season 5 (they want to make a BW episode of the battle at the wall). So why rush her DWD story at mid season 5 and that of Jon till the end of season 6? I don't see the benefit in here, only to make season 7 bad because there is no Danny in it.

And about the DWD stuff, that was my point, we haven't even see the end of season 3 and we are going to speculate about season5 and beyond. Take a season at a time i would say.

http://screenrant.co...ils-aco-160936/ Maybe Beionoff change his mind, but if you first said that it doesn't matter how many seasons it will take and than it will be 8, than I think that they don't care anymore about the show, because else you would see where it goes with the books and keep as close to them as possible.

@Toliet:

It's not because of the storylines that I think it will be 2 seasons but because of budgetary reasons, they can't put all the major things from DwD and FfC in one season budgetary reasons and there are too many storylines, do we want more of season 1 and season 3 way of telling the story, of more that of season 2? You can say that in season 5 there are many storylines. But maybe they cut out the kingsmoot and the Martels. And second Martin hopes that FfC and DwD will be 3 seasons combined instead of 2.

[total1402]

The AFFC/ADWD material in season 4 they're refering to, IMO, is the Ironborn material which chronologically does take place in or around the same time as ASOS.

So this season we'll see

-Theon getting tortured by Ramsey

-Asha n Balon before the latter is killed.

Then in season 4

-Kingsmoot followed by set ups to get Asha to Deepwood Motte and the Ironborn ready to invade the Reach. The dragonhorn reveal would be a good cliff hanger to end season 4.

-Theon betraying his Ironborn brothers at Moat Calin. Followed by the set up of him n Bolton/Freys going to Winterfell.

This would give them a lot of leeway and means they could breeze through AFFC/ADWD since in those books. Stannis waits at the wall until Asha is at Deepwood. We don't have the politcal cersei arc come to a head until the Ironborn Kingsmoot to set up the invasion. Theres no battle of Winterfell until Theon has been tortured and betrayed Moat Calin and had a LONGGGG spell in Winterfell.

Amazed that D&D think the series cast will contract from this point on. Personally I think this is them reassuring audiences they won't have to remember too many more names when really they mean that a lot will die and new ones be introduced. Namely the Ironborn, Aegon and Dornish characters. Unless they want to get wrid of the Dornish n Ironborn material entirely, which I doubt, they have little choice but to introduce even more characters.

[hazlnut]

Divide?

4 and 5 barely have enough dramatically interesting material for 1 season.

[Waylin Stark]

Two seasons I'd say, chronologically.

Of course, with the introduction of the Martells and Greyjoys, the story will be too crammed, so I guess they'll cut down their story a bit, with Sam and Brienne's quests shortened, along with Tyrion's perilous journey and Dany's battle to free the slaves.

But with the tendency of GoT to expand the stories of secondary characters, along with the major problem of the show catching up to the books, they might expand it into 3 seasons.

The last of these 3 seasons might involve both the major battles which TWoW are expected to open with - The Battle of Winterfell and The Battle of Slavers' BAy.

Which is perfectly fine, but there's the problem of following the increasingly complex and some boring storylines of millions of characters.

[King Zee]

I agree with those that think AFFC and ADWD might end up being just one season.

honestly not a lot actually happens. take tyrion a character that has to appear every episode.

1 episode with Illyrio

say 2 episodes with Griff

3 episodes with Jorah

and 3 episodes as a slave

1 episode with the sellswords

similarly Jon as only 10 episodes of material really.

Burning rattleshirt

sending Sam away

talking with Stannis

revelation of Mance

letting Val go

talking with Bowen

Val returns with Tormund

Alys show up

Alys gets married

Jon dies.

or Theon

what actions actually occur ?

He betrays Moat Cailin around episode 3

the wedding i think will take place around episode 7

T and J escape around episode 9.

[Abaddon]

And let's be honest, the real work on S4 has yet to really begin, so any comments on it before that are all subject to change.

George just posted that he's almost done with the first draft of his S4 script. That means not only that they've already plotted out the season, broken it up roughly into episodes, and assigned writers. It also means everyone else is almost certainly done with their first drafts and maybe more (as you say "let's be honest", the last person to turn in his homework every time has got to be George ;)).

I think they are further ahead on figuring out what to do than you are suggesting. That said, we obviously have to take what they say with huge grains of salt so I am not disagreeing with that.

[Blutrabe]

Can I have a source for that? Especially the notion that Jon being elected Lord Commander will be moved to S5. That sounds incredibly dubious.

The producers said that S4 ends with the battle at the Wall. The election of the Lord Commander takes place after that in the book. I'm not sure if the election offers enough material for a whole season and I can't find another point in his ADWD story where his S5 arc could end satisfyingly.

Then in season 4

-Kingsmoot followed by set ups to get Asha to Deepwood Motte and the Ironborn ready to invade the Reach. The dragonhorn reveal would be a good cliff hanger to end season 4.

-Theon betraying his Ironborn brothers at Moat Calin. Followed by the set up of him n Bolton/Freys going to Winterfell.

This would give them a lot of leeway and means they could breeze through AFFC/ADWD since in those books. Stannis waits at the wall until Asha is at Deepwood. We don't have the politcal cersei arc come to a head until the Ironborn Kingsmoot to set up the invasion. Theres no battle of Winterfell until Theon has been tortured and betrayed Moat Calin and had a LONGGGG spell in Winterfell.

I like that.

Amazed that D&D think the series cast will contract from this point on. Personally I think this is them reassuring audiences they won't have to remember too many more names when really they mean that a lot will die and new ones be introduced. Namely the Ironborn, Aegon and Dornish characters. Unless they want to get wrid of the Dornish n Ironborn material entirely, which I doubt, they have little choice but to introduce even more characters.

I think Quentyn could be cut entirely. Whether the rest of the Dornish can be cut depends on how important Arianne, Myrcella, Darkstar and the Sandsnakes turn out to be.

similarly Jon as only 10 episodes of material really.

Burning rattleshirt

sending Sam away

talking with Stannis

revelation of Mance

letting Val go

talking with Bowen

Val returns with Tormund

Alys show up

Alys gets married

Jon dies.

Cut Alys and maybe Val.

[oierem]

The producers said that S4 ends with the battle at the Wall.

NO! They've said that there will be a big battle (the battle at the Wall,ok), towards the end of season 4. That doesn't mean the election won't happen.

[genesis]

The producers said that S4 ends with the battle at the Wall. The election of the Lord Commander takes place after that in the book. I'm not sure if the election offers enough material for a whole season and I can't find another point in his ADWD story where his S5 arc could end satisfyingly.

If the election of the Lord Commander is not in S4 (which I think would be a good idea, but hasn't been a popular view so far) then S5 could end on the Wildlings crossing the Wall south, which is both visually and dramatically is a nice breaking point. So S5 would contain:

pre-election political set up

Sam's manipulations and the election

Post-election negotiations with Stannis (offer of legitimisation, giving of Nightfort etc)

Sending Sam away

Death of Slynt

Negotiations with the Wildlings and increasing tensions in the NW

Wldlings cross the Wall

This then could be Jon's political arc that parallel's Cersei's and Daenery's political arcs.

S6 would then contain the rest of ADWD as well as the early parts of TWOT with Jon's resurrection.

[protar]

@Protar:

Robert's rebilion is part of the Game of Thrones series and won't be in a miniserie or something. GRRM stated this. http://winteriscomin...eing-discussed/

I think you're misinterpreting that statement. My interpretation of it is not they'll be doing a flashback episode or two (which is completely out of tone within the show, and the logistics of an entirely different cast for just a few individual episodes is ridiculous.) but that because the rebellion is so integral to the present story of AGOT that it won't be adapted on-screen period. They will simply introduce relevant information into the show as needed.

and about Dany, you didn't get the point I was making. There are many stories in GOT, they won't risk to not show Dany for more than a season, that will happen if you keep her more than a season ahead of the rest.

I am not suggesting that Dany disappear for an entire season, wherever would you get that idea? Dany's arc is separate enough from the rest of the plot that that it can be stretched or compressed a fair amount without going out of sync with the rest of the series. So by S6 she'll be some way through her TWOW material if we are to follow my projection and then when she gets to Westeros it will be in sync with everyone else. No problem.

I mean it's already know that the choosing of the new commander will be in season 5 (they want to make a BW episode of the battle at the wall). So why rush her DWD story at mid season 5 and that of Jon till the end of season 6? I don't see the benefit in here, only to make season 7 bad because there is no Danny in it.

It is not known. They have said they're planning a BW style battle in S4. That's it. Just to play devil's advocate it's not even confirmed that it will be the Battle at the Wall, though I personally think it will be. What's certainly not confirmed however is when it will take place. Episode 7 or 8 seem like the most likely possibilities to me, allowing space for Jon to be elected Lord Commander.

And about the DWD stuff, that was my point, we haven't even see the end of season 3 and we are going to speculate about season5 and beyond. Take a season at a time i would say.

Eh. I see no reason why we can't speculate. The process of adapting S5 is the most interesting to me, because it will such a challenge, so I'd like to discuss it. You don't have to.

http://screenrant.co...ils-aco-160936/ Maybe Beionoff change his mind, but if you first said that it doesn't matter how many seasons it will take and than it will be 8, than I think that they don't care anymore about the show, because else you would see where it goes with the books and keep as close to them as possible.

The two statements aren't mutually exclusive though. They're saying that they'll do as many seasons as they need, and they're saying that they're looking at 8 seasons. The logical conclusion is not that they no longer care about the show, but that they think that 8 seasons is what they'll need. And in all likelyhood it will be. There are 7 books, but SOS (and in all likelyhood TWOW.) will be filmed in 2 parts, whereas ADWD/AFFC can be folded into 1 season with extra bits squeezing out on either side into S4 and S6. That makes 8 seasons.

[protar]

George just posted that he's almost done with the first draft of his S4 script. That means not only that they've already plotted out the season, broken it up roughly into episodes, and assigned writers. It also means everyone else is almost certainly done with their first drafts and maybe more (as you say "let's be honest", the last person to turn in his homework every time has got to be George ;)).

I think they are further ahead on figuring out what to do than you are suggesting. That said, we obviously have to take what they say with huge grains of salt so I am not disagreeing with that.

Fair enough. But tbh we don't know what they're definition is of "little of AFFC/ADWD" so it could be more than most people are expecting. I think that that would be the best route personally - mixing a fair amount of AFFC/ADWD into S4 (also S6.) So that S5 is the only dedicated AFFC/ADWD season.

[total1402]

Its either the wall or Mereen. The former is much more important plotwise. But difficult to represent since its basiclly Jon shooting hapless wildlings from on high and a bitter skirmish at the gates with giants. If Tywin riding in to save the day is any indication then Stannis riding in could be very brief. So really, minus some CGI scenes of the Nights Watch shooting down on the army it basiclly winds down to a skirmish in the tunnel. Also, I think its far too close to the Battle for Blackwater Bay. Defenders holding off and about to be overrun. Saved by flank attack of cavalry. Thats not quite telling in the book. But in the series where we'll have obvious comparisons to the Blackwater... The exotic locale and giants might alter that but really.

Whilst if they did Mereen. Its a very different battle to the Blackwater. The attackers win. We can see Jorah n Barristan sneak into the city and free the pit fighters. Then the Unsullied battering down the gates. Plus, if they are going to end Danys arc after the Battle of Yunkai, which is heavily implied by the episodes entitled Mysha and Second Sons. To me, that suggests she will spend most of season 4 beseiging Mereen and taking it will be the climax of her story. Thats true of Jon of course.

IMO they'll probably come to a compromise and do both battles. But dragging out the wall doesn't make much sense. In the books I remember this being actually a very short sequence and theres a huge gluff between the two armies except for at the tunnel. They could do an ice and fire episode and have one episode dedicated to both battles simultaineously...

ps- Not sure how the show will manage setting peoples expectations too high that Dany will be getting to Westeros any time soon. I imagine a lot of people will assume. "Now she has army she can invade."

[protar]

Its either the wall or Mereen. The former is much more important plotwise. But difficult to represent since its basiclly Jon shooting hapless wildlings from on high and a bitter skirmish at the gates with giants. If Tywin riding in to save the day is any indication then Stannis riding in could be very brief. So really, minus some CGI scenes of the Nights Watch shooting down on the army it basiclly winds down to a skirmish in the tunnel. Also, I think its far too close to the Battle for Blackwater Bay. Defenders holding off and about to be overrun. Saved by flank attack of cavalry. Thats not quite telling in the book. But in the series where we'll have obvious comparisons to the Blackwater... The exotic locale and giants might alter that but really.

Whilst if they did Mereen. Its a very different battle to the Blackwater. The attackers win. We can see Jorah n Barristan sneak into the city and free the pit fighters. Then the Unsullied battering down the gates. Plus, if they are going to end Danys arc after the Battle of Yunkai, which is heavily implied by the episodes entitled Mysha and Second Sons. To me, that suggests she will spend most of season 4 beseiging Mereen and taking it will be the climax of her story. Thats true of Jon of course.

IMO they'll probably come to a compromise and do both battles. But dragging out the wall doesn't make much sense. In the books I remember this being actually a very short sequence and theres a huge gluff between the two armies except for at the tunnel. They could do an ice and fire episode and have one episode dedicated to both battles simultaineously...

ps- Not sure how the show will manage setting peoples expectations too high that Dany will be getting to Westeros any time soon. I imagine a lot of people will assume. "Now she has army she can invade."

Most of the action at the Wall is actually a continual siege, which is what will probably take up most of Jon's S4 arc: The wildlings at the gates, the NW sending arrows down, the occasional skirmish and probably some scenes from the willding POV to take advantage of Ciarin Hinds.

Then episode 7/8 will be Jon sent to "treat with Mance" and that being interrupted by Stannis' arrival which was just a few paragraphs in the books but which I think will be expanded into a full blown battle here.

[cade]

Dany's story in ADWD is widely disliked and will not worked on TV stretched over multiple seasons. Dany can agree to marry Hizdahr in S4 E10. Then S5 can detail Quentyn's arrival, her marriage to Hizdahr and her flying off on Drogon in E5/6. She can vanish for a couple of episodes then we get whatever she's doing with the Dothraki and then the Battle of Fire can make an amazing finale. S6 will then have moved fully into Dany's TWOW material whatever that may be.

Yeah, the tv audience will grow to hate Dany even more than book readers if her Mereen arc lasts 3 or 4 seasons. I think they're going to adapt her pre-Westeros story as fast as possible while still having it converge with the Westeros characters at the right point. Most of her ADWD material wasn't even viewed as necessary by GRRM when he first started writing that book: SSM "There's a Dany scene in the book which is actually one of the oldest chapters in the book that goes back almost ten years now. When I was contemplating the five year gap [Martin laughs here, with some chagrin], that chapter was supposed to be the first Daenerys chapter in the book. Then it became the second chapter, and then the third chapter, and it kept getting pushed back as I inserted more things into it. I've rewritten that chapter so much that it ended in many different ways."

It seems that the producers are actually starting to think about how to end the series, now that the huge success seems to grant the continuation of it for a few more seasons. I'm glad they're realistically thinking about that, and essentially saying "we're not going to wait until the books are done or keep splitting books to give Martin more time".

So, the 8 season series seems to be what they're going for, and I honestly think the series should not last any longer. So, if you think to the grand structure, Martin for a long time thought about a 6 part-story, divided in two: AGOT, ACOK, ASOS -gap- ADWD,WOW,ADOS. Things have changed, but I think the TV series may copy that divission: season 1-4 tell the first half of the story and seasons 5-8 (PERHAPS with a bit of a time-jump) tell the second half. And since AFFC/ADWD are just the very beginning of that second half, I don't see them spending a lot of time adapting them: just one season, with some events already happening in season 4/delayed until season 6.

Exactly, and in addition to Benioff saying "we're nearly to the midpoint (of the story)," GRRM said much the same in December 2000: "three more volumes remain. The series could almost be considered as two linked trilogies, although I tend to think of it more as one long story. The next book, A Dance With Dragons, will focus on the return of Daenerys Targaryen to Westeros, and the conflicts that creates. After that comes The Winds of Winter. I have been calling the final volume A Time For Wolves, but I am not happy with that title and will probably change it if I can come up with one that I like better."

Of course the story has since expanded a lot, but with GRRM still projecting the 7th book to be the last, it also appears he's trying to severely condense the second trilogy that he envisioned after finishing ASOS. D&D can trade a lot of books 4 & 5 for more of that.

[ebevan91]

I think they can manage to fit some of books 4 and 5 into season 4, then cutting out a lot of the filler from the books to fit the rest of books 4 and 5 into season 5.

They can easliy cut down Brienne's travels and Tyrion's travels for sure.