[BOOK SPOILERS] How will the TV series divide up book 4 and 5?

[Dornish Whine]

Q&A: 'Game of Thrones' Insider Bryan Cogman on the Biggest Season Yet

"There was material from Book Two and Book Three in Season One, Book Three in Season Two, and there are whole characters we've saved for Season Three..."

Book Three in Season One? What scene(s) is he referring to there? I can understand the overlaps at the edges of seasons / books, but does anyone know what jumped a whole book forward? I do not recall.

[NewJeffCT]

A shot in the dark here. GRRM was a TV writer before, so had to write with deadlines in mind. While it’s not a newspaper column-like deadline, it still is a deadline. Given that, I think he will turn out Winds of Winter by late 2014. I think FFC and DWD were unusual and troublesome to write for him, so WOW and DOS should be cranked out a bit more quickly. (knocks on wood)

So, we have:

2014 Game of Thrones, Season 4 covering the end of Storm of Swords, with the beginning of A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons. Late 2014, WOW is released.

2015 Game of Thrones, Season 5, covering the remainder of FFC and DWD up to the point where DWD timeline passes FFC's ending.

2016 Game of Thrones, Season 6, covering the remainder of DWD and the beginning of WOW.

2017 Game of Thrones, Season 7, covering the remainder of WOW.

2018 – Tales of Dunk & Egg, covering the initial material already released. A Dream of Spring is released mid-2018

2019 – Game of Thrones, Season 8 – A Dream of Spring, extended 13 episode season to wrap it up. (I think the Sopranos had an extended season or two, so why not GoT?)

[protar]

"There was material from Book Two and Book Three in Season One, Book Three in Season Two, and there are whole characters we've saved for Season Three..."

Book Three in Season One? What scene(s) is he referring to there? I can understand the overlaps at the edges of seasons / books, but does anyone know what jumped a whole book forward? I do not recall.

He's referring to the conversation between Jaime and Cersei where Jaime mentions "the war for Cersei's cunt." which is taken from Jaime's flashbacks at the start of SOS.

[UrgentMatter]

I think it's pretty easy to see that FFC and DwD will be Seasons 5 and 6 with the beginnings of WoW. Some storylines will need significant reworking (especially Dany and her doing essentially nothing for four seasons but I'm sure they can just add stuff to spice it up).

Another thing that makes me wonder is at some point in the show they are going to need significant flashbacks. Most of the history of Westeros and the rebellion was glossed over in a few conversations from season 1 and viewers won't have a clue who Rhaegar or Bloodraven is. I can't see how they are going to do justice to some of the (potential) big plot twists to come without real and significant flashbacks. These could be done either as scenes throughout a season, "special" episodes within a season that drop out of the main plot or as a miniseries between seasons (possibly giving HBO the chance to push back a season for a period of time).

Also whilst HBO are making money off a hugely dedicated fanbase I can't see them rushing through seasons. This show has less chance of jumping the shark because it already has a plot direction mostly laid out before it.

[Abaddon]

I think it's pretty easy to see that FFC and DwD will be Seasons 5 and 6 with the beginnings of WoW.

This, with the understanding that some of AFFC and ADWD will be in S4. And Season 6 should conclude with climactic battles of Ice and Fire, which ADWD failed to do. How do you top a climactic S4 Battle at the Wall? TWO battles! :). I think D&D are going to need to beg for another budget increase though...

I think the way to handle Dany in Mereen: have the S5 conclusion be Dany riding off on Drogon. S6 Dany scenes will start late (WHERE'S DANY??) like episode 3-ish, riding Drogon, wandering the grasslands, meeting the Kalassar, and whatever happens to her in TWOW to the point where it makes sense meshing up with the battle of fire.

That gives us ONE season of Dany in Mereen (which could be solid, I think it would be better than the S2 Qarth at any rate) ending on maybe the highlight moment of the series to date. S6 Dany would be a little sparser, but given the S5 conclusion I think they could build some dramatic tension by not having Dany appear until a bit into the season.

I think this could work pretty well. Then, S7 and S8 for the rest of TWOW and ADOS and we're a wrap.

[EDIT] I just realized that Dany will be in Mereen in S4... which makes my "one season" comment a bit silly. So, I need to work on this a bit :)

[Khal-a-bunga]

Well if as people suspect the RW happens in episode 9 this season that means we will probably end this season at about chapter 54 or 55 (the aftermath of the RW). That leaves only 27 chapter of ASOS left over for season 4.

That means they can probably end the events of SOS by the midway point of season 4.

Season 4:

First 3 eps

Joffrey's wedding

The duel at the trial

Stannis arrives in the North to turn the tide of battle

Arya and the Hound's travels, eventually bringing them to the Inn

Dany sets her sights on Mereen

Buildup to the Kingsmoot

Sansa escapes

Bran begins his journey with Cold Hands as his guide

Next 4 eps

Tyrion escapes, fires a crossbow, heads to Essos and meets the Griffins

Brienne leaves Kings Landing with Oathbreaker and begins her borring quest

Kingsmoot and the resulting attack on the Reach

Elections at the Wall

Cersei grows increasingly paranoid, funeral of Tywin and falling out with Jaime

Arianne and Dorne introduced

Arya heads to Essos and makes it into the FM

Siege of Mereen continues

Sansa at the Eyrie

Last 3 eps

Tyrion on the journey with the Griffins, season ends with him being captured at a brothel

Jon as LC of the NW sends Samwell, Aegon and the baby to Oldtown. Season ends with him executing Janos Slynt.

Season ends for Sam with him fighting Daeron and bartering for a trip on the Cinnamon Wind.

Arya later kills Daeron and is punished for it by the Kindly Old Man

Littlefinger pushes someone out the Moon Door

Bran and co are attacked by Wights

Victarion leads the invasion of the Shields, season ends with him being sent to Essos

Arianne's plan unravelled, season ends with her father saying "Fire and Blood"

Dany wins Mereen, decides to stay and rule

Brienne eventually kills some people (the show equivalents of the Bloody Mummers)

Cersei frames Margary and allows the revival of the Faith Militant

Last scene of the season ends with the UnCat reveal as she hangs a Frey.

Everything else from AFFC and ADWD would fit nicely into most of season 5.

Sorry, but this is simply terrible plotting and planning for a season of television. I expect the fourth season will end roughly where the third book ends. Sure, we'll likely see the Kingsmoot at the Iron Islands, and I think they'd be smart to introduce Dorne proper next season (if not, we'll at least get Oberyn and Arianne, I'd imagine, saving the rest for next season), but our main characters are going to stay within the realm of their ASoS material. Anything beyond ASoS for our main cast will be reminiscent of Jon going beyond the Wall or Arya traveling with Yoren. It would be foolish for D&D (or any writer) to ignore the proper endings and beginnings provided in the books.

[protar]

This, with the understanding that some of AFFC and ADWD will be in S4. And Season 6 should conclude with climactic battles of Ice and Fire, which ADWD failed to do. How do you top a climactic S4 Battle at the Wall? TWO battles! :). I think D&D are going to need to beg for another budget increase though...

I think the way to handle Dany in Mereen: have the S5 conclusion be Dany riding off on Drogon. S6 Dany scenes will start late (WHERE'S DANY??) like episode 3-ish, riding Drogon, wandering the grasslands, meeting the Kalassar, and whatever happens to her in TWOW to the point where it makes sense meshing up with the battle of fire.

That gives us ONE season of Dany in Mereen (which could be solid, I think it would be better than the S2 Qarth at any rate) ending on maybe the highlight moment of the series to date. S6 Dany would be a little sparser, but given the S5 conclusion I think they could build some dramatic tension by not having Dany appear until a bit into the season.

I think this could work pretty well. Then, S7 and S8 for the rest of TWOW and ADOS and we're a wrap.

[EDIT] I just realized that Dany will be in Mereen in S4... which makes my "one season" comment a bit silly. So, I need to work on this a bit :)

I think that Dany will probably be ruling Meereen by halfway through S4 with her arc ending at, or just prior to her wedding with Hizdahr. Then mid/late S5 she can fly off on Drogon and the battle of fire can finish off the S5. Then S6 can cover any of ADWD not covered by the previous season and the first part of TWOW.

[kevin1989]

I heard that season 4 will contain very less FfC and DwD stuff, maybe 1 chapter per person max except for theon and Bran.

So I think that season 5 will be about 75% of FfC and 40% of DwD and season 6 will finish them both with a little bit of WoW

[PatrickStormborn]

The only AFfC/ADwD chapters that should be in season 4 are:

• Bran's first 2 ADwD chapters.
  
• Cersei's first AFfC chapter.
  
• The AFfC Ironborn chapters (Damphair I + II, Asha I, and Victarion I + II).
  
• Brienne's journey.
  

Every other character arc ends in a perfect way: Daenerys banishing Jorah and deciding to stay in Meereen, Arya leaving Westeros, Tyrion killing Shae and Tywin and fleeing, Sansa witnessing the murder of Lysa, and Jon being elected Lord Commander.

[King Zee]

Sorry, but this is simply terrible plotting and planning for a season of television. I expect the fourth season will end roughly where the third book ends. Sure, we'll likely see the Kingsmoot at the Iron Islands, and I think they'd be smart to introduce Dorne proper next season (if not, we'll at least get Oberyn and Arianne, I'd imagine, saving the rest for next season), but our main characters are going to stay within the realm of their ASoS material. Anything beyond ASoS for our main cast will be reminiscent of Jon going beyond the Wall or Arya traveling with Yoren. It would be foolish for D&D (or any writer) to ignore the proper endings and beginnings provided in the books.

agreed.

Red Viper and Tyrion's arc alone is enough for a full season.

Episode 1 - Tyrion meets the Red Viper

E2-3 - Red Viper talks to Tyrion about revenge, talks to Tywin about justice, gets offered Cersei, maybe has convo with Cersei, chas with Tyrion about scorpions in bed.

E4 - Purple Wedding

E5 - Tyrion waiting trial - convos with Kevan and Bronn

E6-7 Tyrion's trial - with Kingsguard, Pycelle, Varys and Shae as witnesses

E8 - Mountain vs Red Viper

E9 - escape and crossbow

E10 - Narrow Sea , maybe Pentos

[protar]

The only AFfC/ADwD chapters that should be in season 4 are:

• Bran's first 2 ADwD chapters.
  
• Cersei's first AFfC chapter.
  
• The AFfC Ironborn chapters (Damphair I + II, Asha I, and Victarion I + II).
  
• Brienne's journey.
  

Every other character arc ends in a perfect way: Daenerys banishing Jorah and deciding to stay in Meereen, Arya leaving Westeros, Tyrion killing Shae and Tywin and fleeing, Sansa witnessing the murder of Lysa, and Jon being elected Lord Commander.

But what's Dany going to do for S4 then? There's really not enough material pre taking Meereen for more than 4 or 5 episodes. And with Yunkai in S3 it would seem kind of dull if her arc was simply taking another city, but taking longer.

[locke and key]

personally I don't like the idea of the 2 taking up tonnes of seasons, the content of the 2 books could easily fit into 1 and 1/2 seasons. the way I'd do it would be to have season 5 being the 2 combined up to the point where ADWD goes ahead (which by my calculations is about the point where tyrion gets captured by the Yunkai) and season 6 be the final 1/3 of ADWD and the beginning of TWOW with the battles of meereen and winterfell taking up the whole of episode 9 like blackwater

[oprahnoodlemantra]

I think season 4 will end with Dany chaining up her dragons. Then season 5 will be her marriage and season 6 the battle. Like many others, I expect TWOW material to start showing up in season 6.

[NewJeffCT]

The only AFfC/ADwD chapters that should be in season 4 are:

• Bran's first 2 ADwD chapters.
  
• Cersei's first AFfC chapter.
  
• The AFfC Ironborn chapters (Damphair I + II, Asha I, and Victarion I + II).
  
• Brienne's journey.
  

Every other character arc ends in a perfect way: Daenerys banishing Jorah and deciding to stay in Meereen, Arya leaving Westeros, Tyrion killing Shae and Tywin and fleeing, Sansa witnessing the murder of Lysa, and Jon being elected Lord Commander.

Why wouldn't Tyrion figuring out that Young Griff is Aegon Targaryen be a possible end to a season, whose claim is better than Daenerys' claim to the Iron Throne?

Or, Arya meeting the Kindly Man? Or, maybe killing that guy for deserting the Night's Watch?

And, if they can give Dany a whole extra storyline in Season 2, I'm sure they can come up with more exciting stuff for Meereen to stuff into the end of Season 4 and throughout Season 5. (Maybe some behind the scenes stuff with the Harpy, showing some actual attacks, rather than reports of attacks?)

Unless they really stretch the material from Storm of Swords, I don't think they can get a full season out of the post RW material.

[NewJeffCT]

I think season 4 will end with Dany chaining up her dragons. Then season 5 will be her marriage and season 6 the battle. Like many others, I expect TWOW material to start showing up in season 6.

I agree - I don't think there is enough action in FFC and DWD to justify two entire seasons on just those two books.

[Ghost's Shadow]

See how old everyones getting, im referring to the Stark kids, its gonna be pretty weird cause come 2016+ most of them are gonna be waay taller, and you're not really gonna be able to pull it off. I think thats the major problem. You've got Sansa who's like 13 in the books and then on the tv show she looks like she's 25,

I saw a bit of Sansa and Littlefinger out in the open air of last week's episode, and thought that, if Littlefinger wants to get his kisses from her he'd have to go stand on a step to look down on her.

[Mr Fixit]

The only AFfC/ADwD chapters that should be in season 4 are:

• Bran's first 2 ADwD chapters.
  
• Cersei's first AFfC chapter.
  
• The AFfC Ironborn chapters (Damphair I + II, Asha I, and Victarion I + II).
  
• Brienne's journey.
  

Every other character arc ends in a perfect way: Daenerys banishing Jorah and deciding to stay in Meereen, Arya leaving Westeros, Tyrion killing Shae and Tywin and fleeing, Sansa witnessing the murder of Lysa, and Jon being elected Lord Commander.

Bran's gonna be a bitch. After spending the whole third season trudging through wilderness, he'll be trudging the whole fourth season through wilderness once more, only this time north of the wall. I don't think that's viable. Some changes are a must.

Also agree with Protar, Dany only has two post-Yunkai chapters in ASOS. I just can't see that being her whole S4 arc. There's nothing there! Again, some inclusion of ADWD material is probable (maybe showing the dragons put of control, chaining them up or something).

Having Theon Reekified in S3 means that some of his early ADWD material is likely to happen in S4 as well.

All in all, that's already a fair bit of material from AFFC/ADWD in Season 4.

[kevin1989]

The only AFfC/ADwD chapters that should be in season 4 are:

• Bran's first 2 ADwD chapters.
  
• Cersei's first AFfC chapter.
  
• The AFfC Ironborn chapters (Damphair I + II, Asha I, and Victarion I + II).
  
• Brienne's journey.
  

Every other character arc ends in a perfect way: Daenerys banishing Jorah and deciding to stay in Meereen, Arya leaving Westeros, Tyrion killing Shae and Tywin and fleeing, Sansa witnessing the murder of Lysa, and Jon being elected Lord Commander.

True, but depends on when Bran is important after his DwD arc, because maybe we will see him in ending his DwD arc in season 4.

About Cercei you're right.

And about Iron born. I think that it will end when Euron has been chosen. Personally I hope they start this in episode 4x03 or 4x04.

And don't forget Theon. Reek I is probably in season 4.

But what's Dany going to do for S4 then? There's really not enough material pre taking Meereen for more than 4 or 5 episodes. And with Yunkai in S3 it would seem kind of dull if her arc was simply taking another city, but taking longer.

Are you serious? They probably left some things in season 3 for season 4 and things from season 2 that aren't in. And don't forget 2 thing 1. This season and probably next contains less episodes with Danny and more per episode. They can make things longer, more thinking etc.

Episode 1/2. Danny follows the path to Mereen, with the body's some talk with Jorah and Arstan. Some sort of talk that she needs to left the city alone.

Episode 3/4. Strategy taking over the city. Knowing that Jorah betrayed here. Mero attack.

Episode 5. Learning the city, the harpy plot etc. some council. Learning the people from Mereen.

Episode 6. Jorah goes away. cry cry.

Episode 7: No Danny.

Episode 8/9/10: Need to be DwD chapters: Danny 1 fully and Danny 2 only the capturing of the Dragons.

but remember that D&D will always know something to put on screen. Maybe there's a bigger things for Danny in season 4. Don't forget that 1 episode is battle at the wall. And there's speculation that there will be a rebellion episode. so that means 8 episodes left. With the fact that D&D want less characters per episodes we can say that Danny will be next season in 5 episodes, maybe 6.

[kevin1989]

Unless they really stretch the material from Storm of Swords, I don't think they can get a full season out of the post RW material.

You know that the things happening after the RW are more important? They need to be fleshed out more. Like the trial of Tyrion. The whole Stannis wall thing. etc. There's so much to tell. And Cogman already stated that they left things out of season 2. And probably in season 3. For arya I think that next season she will be with the hound the first 4 episodes. The hound get's killed, she get's captured almost, kills somebody (what we missed last season) and she will be going for braavos in episode 8 and she will be there in episode 10.

But we'll have to wait when season 3 ends, what's left for them. I think there will be some things in season 4 from DwD/FfC but not more than one chapter per character. Except for Danny (little bit from chapter 2) and Bran. Brienne will have 1 chapter. Cercei will have one chapter (jaime doesn't). Reek will have one chapter. Tyrion none (maybe off screen part when he fleeing KL, and maybe even a glimps of Pentos, can be done if the big battle at the wall is episode 9 and Tyrion kills Tywin in episode 8). Arya maybe her first in FfC, Sansa none, Jon and Sam none, even Ran things that the commander thing will be in season 5. did I forget somebody?

[protar]

True, but depends on when Bran is important after his DwD arc, because maybe we will see him in ending his DwD arc in season 4.

About Cercei you're right.

And about Iron born. I think that it will end when Euron has been chosen. Personally I hope they start this in episode 4x03 or 4x04.

And don't forget Theon. Reek I is probably in season 4.

Are you serious? They probably left some things in season 3 for season 4 and things from season 2 that aren't in. And don't forget 2 thing 1. This season and probably next contains less episodes with Danny and more per episode. They can make things longer, more thinking etc.

Episode 1/2. Danny follows the path to Mereen, with the body's some talk with Jorah and Arstan. Some sort of talk that she needs to left the city alone.

Episode 3/4. Strategy taking over the city. Knowing that Jorah betrayed here. Mero attack.

Episode 5. Learning the city, the harpy plot etc. some council. Learning the people from Mereen.

Episode 6. Jorah goes away. cry cry.

Episode 7: No Danny.

Episode 8/9/10: Need to be DwD chapters: Danny 1 fully and Danny 2 only the capturing of the Dragons.

but remember that D&D will always know something to put on screen. Maybe there's a bigger things for Danny in season 4. Don't forget that 1 episode is battle at the wall. And there's speculation that there will be a rebellion episode. so that means 8 episodes left. With the fact that D&D want less characters per episodes we can say that Danny will be next season in 5 episodes, maybe 6.

A rebellion episode? Robert's rebellion as a flashback.

In any case I think that if we consider Dany will likely feature in 8 episodes in S4 she should have 4 episodes taking Meereen and 4 ruling it.

• Establishes Meereen as the new enemy. Discussion of the sewers as a way in.
  
• Failed peace talk with Hizdahr, Skahaz and the Green Grace to establish them as characters.
  
• Reveal of Jorah's betrayal. Decision to send him into the sewers.
  
• Taking Meereen, Dany banishes Jorah and decides to rule.
  

• Dany ruling Meereen, Hizdahr and co. pledge their allegiance. Sons of the Harpy attack.
  
• Hizdarh's wish to reopen the fighting pits. Hazzea's bones would make a good episode ending.
  
• Dragons chained up. Maybe a bit of exposition on Rhaegar via Barristan and burgeoning romance between Dany and Daario.
  
• Hizdahr proposes to marry Dany and she agrees should he bring 90 days of peace.