Becoming No One: Rereading Arya III

[ShadowCat Rivers]

It's the wolf blood.

Would it be more accurate to say she has an inclination to aggressiveness instead of violence? I think she is quite aggressive and it is not something negative per se. If there is an obstacle, other people will try first to jump over it while others will prefer to find a way to by-pass it. Arya is of the first kind.

She enjoys aggressive games - in this chapter she starts a sort of wrestling game with Gendry. She also doesn't like to lose and she won't give up until she wins.

This game also serves as a way to release some of her anger. Slaping the door would have helped, too.

Sorry for the off topic, but for me, she didn't lie about Nymeria. We know what direwolves can do. If she had hurt him moderately, Joffrey would have ended up with a permanently dysfunctional hand.

[1234567]

Arya V

Arya reaches Stoney Step and is told by Harwin about the history of her father winning a battle there, and a somewhat sanitized version of Robert’s hiding out in the town. He notes that the Hand Connington searched every house but never found Robert, but when Ned arrived Robert emerged and the Septons rang the bells to warn the small folk to stay indoors. Arya immediately notices the very shut new wooden gates and the charred remains of the old ones outside. The band are recognised and allowed to enter. They ask how the townsfolk are doing for food and are told the Huntsman has recently been by and delivered food and that Wolves and Mummers are about, plus those looking for Jaime. Arya takes in the layout of the town, noting the Sept on the hill, the keep that’s too small for the town and that about a third of the town has been brunt down and there is no one in sight. She asks

"Are all the townfolk dead? "

"Only shy." Anguy pointed out two bowmen on a roof, and some boys with sooty faces crouched in the rubble of an alehouse.

The town’s folk begin to appear and Arya notices the fountain in the shape of a leaping trout in the market square and the crows cages filled with living and dead men beside it. Lem asks what’s going on with them and is told it’s justice. He asks when did they run out of rope. Arya discovers that they are a rapist and murderers and also Robb’s men.

Wolves. Arya went cold. Robb's men, and my father's. She felt drawn toward the cages.

As she nears one man, he stirs and begs for water. She is told to take no notice of them, but thinks

She looked at their filthy hair and scraggly beards and reddened eyes, at their dry, cracked, bleeding lips. Wolves, she thought again. Like me. Was this her pack? How could they be Robb's men? She wanted to hit them. She wanted to hurt them. She wanted to cry. They all seemed to be looking at her, the living and the dead alike.

They cry again for water and Arya goes to take them water, the towns people move to stop her, but Harwin and Gendry help her up so she can pour the water over the men in turn. Anguy then shoots them with arrows. They die and Arya thinks to herself “Valar Morghulis”.

They cross the square to an inn called the Peach where they are greeted by an exceptionally cheery jesting landlady, who is delighted to see them and notes that the girls will like Gendry and enlightens us that it is more than the songs that attract the girls to Tom O’Sevens. They have to wash although,

Arya tried to tell them that she'd been bathed twice at Acorn Hall, not a fortnight past, but the red-haired woman was having none of it.

The girls of the Peach argue as to whether she is a boy or a girl, but in the end she gets dressed as a girl much to her chagrin.

As she sat in the common room in her stupid girl clothes, Arya remembered what Syrio Forel had told her, the trick of looking and seeing what was there. When she looked, she saw more serving wenches than any inn could want, and most of them young and comely.

She notices that they go upstairs with the men that come in and works out it is a brothel, a guess she divulges to Gendry. Who tells her that she doesn’t know what a brothel is.

I do so," she insisted. "It's like an inn, with girls." He was turning red again. "What are you doing here, then?" he demanded. "A brothel's no fit place for no bloody highborn lady, everybody knows that."

One of the Peach’s girls, Bella, hears this and laughingly says she’s a King’s daughter, explaining that her mother slept with Robert when he was hiding in the Peach. Arya assesses her claim.

The girl did have hair like the old king's, Arya thought; a great thick mop of it, as black as coal. That doesn't mean anything, though. Gendry has the same kind of hair too. Lots of people have black hair.

Bella propositions Gendry, but he refuses and she goes off to find another client. Several of the men have gone off with prostitutes.

Arya sipped at the cup of watered wine the red-haired woman had allowed her, listening. Across the square the dead men were rotting in their crow cages, but inside the Peach everyone was jolly. Except it seemed to her that some of them were laughing too hard, somehow.

She thinks it may now be he best chance at escape as the men as busy, but then thinks through the escape and rationalizes that they will not open the gate and Harwin would chase her. She rues not having a map so that she could work out where Stoney Step is in relation to Riverrun. Gendry has walked off and Arya is left on her own. She overhears gossip being talked about her mother.

In the comer by the window Lem and Harwin sat talking to red- haired Tansy in low voices. "... spent the night in Jaime's cell," she heard the woman say. "Her and this other wench, the one who slew Renly. All three o' them together, and come the mom Lady Catelyn cut him loose for love." She gave a throaty chuckle.

It's not true, Arya thought. She never would. She felt sad and angry and lonely, all at once.

However a foul smelling drunk man then sits beside her and begins calling her a sweet peach and asks her name.

For half a heartbeat she forgot who she was supposed to be.

Gendry however is quick to the rescue and gets rid of the disgusting man by telling him that he is her brother. Arya not understanding what has just been averted asks him why he did that, which starts a fight between them when Gendry takes this the wrong way. Arya then stalks off to bed and changes back into her own clothes and says her prayer before she goes to bed. She wonders if some of them are already dead, their eyes being eaten by crows.

That night she dreams of wolves again and is awoken by dogs barking. The Huntsman has returned with a Lannister man who is going to rot in the crow cages. When she sees his face she realizes who it is (Sandor Clegane) and thinks.

The gods had heard her prayers after all.

Analysis

Arya’s observational skills are one of the most impressive parts of this chapter. Again we see her using the lessons Syrio has taught her, as well as her own natural observational skills.

Arya remembered what Syrio Forel had told her, the trick of looking and seeing what was there.

In the Inn she quickly assesses the situation both in what the place is, a brothel and the underlying desperation and brokenness of the people in Stoney Step. Arya’s observation below

Arya sipped at the cup of watered wine the red-haired woman had allowed her, listening. Across the square the dead men were rotting in their crow cages, but inside the Peach everyone was jolly. Except it seemed to her that some of them were laughing too hard, somehow.

is a good description of the state of the village and the surviving people of the Riverlands. People are making merry while they can, but everyone has their tale of sorrow and the psychological damage it has brought along with it.

There is a lot of pain and hard realizations in this chapter. Following on from the experience with Bolton in Harrenhal and the revelations in the previous chapters about the Northmen raiding the Septs and Lady Smallwood’s comments etc, here we have Arya coming face to face again with those who she had held up as being the honourable ones. They are meant to be part of her pack and yet what they have done is horrific and causes her despair.

Like me. Was this her pack? How could they be Robb's men? She wanted to hit them. She wanted to hurt them. She wanted to cry.

Then there are the comments about her mother.

It's not true, Arya thought. She never would. She felt sad and angry and lonely, all at once.

Arya needs a cuddle and someone to comfort her and nobody is thinking about how bloody awful it is for her. In fact this small scene where she is sitting alone at the table, reminded me of the scene in AGOT where she is grieving for Mycah in the Small Hall of the Tower of the Hand, while everyone else is carrying on with their lives round about her. Arya is again an outsider, fitting in with neither the men in the cage or the BWB or the Townsfolk.

Coupled with this, her identity is no longer just a secret between her and Gendry. Others know and we can see Gendry’s resentment growing, now that the difference between how them is made more prominent in how they are treated. Realistically Gendry could walk off then and there and no one would mind, but Arya is important. She is the captive, not Gendry. Their dynamic has been affected by the outside influence of others and how they have reacted to her and to him.

Wolf Dreams

Sleep came as quick as she closed her eyes. She dreamed of wolves that night, stalking through a wet wood with the smell of rain and rot and blood thick in the air. Only they were good smells in the dream, and Arya knew she had nothing to fear. She was strong and swift and fierce, and her pack was all around her, her brothers and her sisters. They ran down a frightened horse together, tore its throat out, and feasted. And when the moon broke through the clouds, she threw back her head and howled. But when the day came, she woke to the barking of dogs.

Arya finds strength in her wolf dreams and in the sense of belonging. During the day she is desperately trying to build a pack, while at night she has one and it gives her more happiness than her waking hours.

Death and Water

We again have a strong theme of Arya’s connection to Water and Death.

"Water," he said, "water." Arya swung down from her horse. They can't hurt me, they're dying. She took her cup from her bedroll and went to the fountain. <snip>

The fat man turned his face up and pressed his cheek to the iron, and Arya poured the water over him. He sucked at it eagerly and let it run down over his head and cheeks and hands, and then he licked the dampness off the bars. He would have licked Arya's fingers if she hadn't snatched them back. By the time she served the other two the same, a crowd had gathered to watch her. <snip>

Anguy strung his longbow, slid an arrow from his quiver, nocked, drew, loosed. The fat man shuddered as the shaft drove up between his chins, but the cage would not let him fall. Two more arrows ended the other two northmen. The only sound in the market square was the splash of falling water and the buzzing of flies. Valar morghulis, Arya thought.

So far Arya, giving water to the three men in the cage, one of whom is an agent of death, imbibing water where the dead had been, or even causing death through the Weasel Soup etc have linked her to water and death, but here we have almost religious imagery with Arya bringing the water to the men and almost baptizing them with it before they are killed, followed instinctually by the thought Valar Morghulis. It is like an act of ritual and serves as a link to later chapters and her duties in the House of Black and white.

It also links to folklore and the idea of coins, wishes and wells. Before they were wishes, the coins were offerings to the gods and both good fortune and bad fortune for your enemies could be requested.

Also there are links back to both Nordic mythology with the Norns and also to a lesser extent with Greek mythology and the Moirai. That both groups of fates are dealers in death and life and choose those who are to die, Arya is linked towards Atropos and Skuld in that regard. That the fates often have the analogy of weaving and Arya’s needle is the one that cuts the threads of life.

The BWB

We also see more of the BWB in this chapter. While they give the men in the crow cages quick deaths and we know theses particular men are guilty of vile crimes, the Huntsman at the end is about to put Sandor Clegane in a crow cage despite having done nothing to anyone in the Riverlands. I would again say that this speaks of previous prisoners who may have done nothing suffering in the same way.

The Brothel

There was a lot of disturbing things about the brothel scene. Gendry tells Arya it is no place for a Lady, but in truth it is no place for any young girl or child. If Bella was conceived during the rebellion then she can only be 16 at this point. A woman grown according to Westeros, but how long as she been working there and how old are the other girls? The man who approaches Arya, who is 10 approaching 11, seems to think it likely she is available, which is rather sickening. Is this a normal state of affairs or is this an effect of war?

It also highlights that friendly bunch of captors though they are, the BWB have taken her to a dangerous environment and then left her on her own essentially while they gossip and go off with prostitutes. It is only Gendry’s presence that saves her from a particularly nasty situation.

Foreshadowing

Nice little nod to Lem’s one day wearing the Hound’s helmet:

“You're afraid all the piss will wash out and we'll see you're really a knight o' the Kingsguard! “

Odd coincidences

Robert staying at the Peach and Renly’s peach? Not sure what the significance of this is if any, but I found it interesting.

Songs

"Two Hearts that Beat as One,"

"The Maids that Bloom in Spring."

[Fire Eater]

"Well, aren't you a pretty little peach?"

This foreshadows Arya's growing association with death.

"That's right," he said angrily. "I'm too bloody lowborn to be kin to m'lady high."

Gendry defending Arya from that old creep, is reminiscent of a knight defending a highborn maiden, at times his lover. Her asking why he defended her, brings to mind for him that he is lowborn, and unqualified to defend highborn maids or even marry one.

[Katsa]

Inclination to violence - just to make it clear, that this is just a character trait people have, like any other:

Go to a kindergarden or playground of your choice. You will find the whole range of answers to a challenge. Some kids duck away from the fight, some talk themselfes out of it or talk the others into the ground. Some just jump and push, hit or bite.

In an ordinary course of things, social education will level this to a point, where the one kid learns to restrain himself while the other learns to stand his ground. I, as a matter of fact, am very impulsive and I would not oppose if someone called it a trait for violence as a reflexiv response. When some kid tried to grab my showel, I hit it with it. Later, I learned to answer differently (having been smaller then most other kids might have been a reason, too :)). And today, I don't walk about shooting people who steal my lunch.

:agree:

I know that the discussion that have moved off beyond the previous chapter but I just wanted to add on to the whole tendency for violence/aggression thing.

I am able to relate to Arya in that sense because we do have the same aggressive and rough personality. Like Arya, I enjoy engaging in physical activities (e.g wrestling with my dad, brother and friends) and tend to “beat” people up even on the happiest of occasions (you know, like a punch on the arm to show that I like you). I don’t really know how to explain why and it’s not like I am trying to justify beating people up, like some posters think was going on, but it is really a trait that some people are born with. It’s not even wolf-bloodedness, in the sense that only Starks in the series can have it--some people in real life are like that too. I don’t think that I am a bad person or that my parents did a shady job in raising me up, as some posters here suggested.

I do agree with some posters here that the right outlet for people with my personality type and temperament would be to engage in some form of rigorous physical activity, usually sports, to channel all that aggression in a positive manner. Personally, I take up long distance running, kick-boxing and lacrosse. Long distance running, particularly, helps me focus and creates an avenue to vent off my anger--I go on long and hard runs whenever I find myself pissed off at something or someone.

I think the society that Arya lived in puts her at a huge disadvantage for her personality type and gender, where rigorous physical activity for high born ladies is frowned upon. The only sporty-ish activity that ladies are permitted to do, I think, is either hawking or horse-riding… and I've never tried hawking but it does not sound like a rigorous enough activity.

By the way, I do feel for both girls because I don’t think their relationship as sisters ever stood a chance due to the biased authority figure in their lives *coughs Septa Mordane* as well as the over-arching social structure that praises only Sansa’s talents while rendering any of Arya’s as completely useless. I have an older sister who is exactly like Sansa--beautiful, calm temperament, exceptionally awesome at languages/literature and the fine arts--and I seem to align more with Arya not only in terms of temperament and personality but also talent for math and science. My sister and I are best friends, and we find ourselves complementing each other in strengths and weaknesses. It breaks my heart to think that Sansa and Arya could have shared the same bond that my sister and I did if only their circumstances were a little different.

Sorry for the off topic, but for me, she didn't lie about Nymeria. We know what direwolves can do. If she had hurt him moderately, Joffrey would have ended up with a permanently dysfunctional hand.

ShadowCat Rivers, Arya did lie about Nymeria. Not about Nymeria biting Joffrey a little, which is true, but about Nymeria running off into the wilderness. Even Ned could smell that lie from a mile away and we know that Ned is not particularly good at sniffing out lies and schemes. :P

... Ned should have been a better disciplinarian. Yes, children get in fights, but the aggressor should be disciplined accordingly.

fantasmas, when siblings or children get into physical brawls, I don't think it's a simple matter of only the “aggressor should be punished”. Yes, punish them for the beating but don’t just stop there. Parents/adults do have to investigate the root of the problem and dish out fair punishments. If only the aggressor gets punished, without ever looking into why the altercation happened in the first place, then it guarantees built up resentment and a bitter sibling relationship for life.

IMO, Ned didn’t seem to punish either daughter for what happened. He did talk to Arya but didn’t go a good job explaining why Sansa had to lie--as he did in the TV show. I’m not even sure if Ned talked to Sansa at all because Sansa continued to blame Arya for Lady’s death, which personally is a bigger problem for me than Sansa staying neutral during the recounting of events (most due to the psychological trauma and isolation it did for Arya). Perhaps Ned felt guilty about killing Lady and thought he'd allow Sansa to cool off first. :dunno:

As for the incident at the Trident, I am pretty torn about what happened. I do think that Arya should have been more diplomatic although, based on what we know about Joffrey, it would not have made much of a difference. Joffrey was drunk and Mycah was his new play thing to torment.

Hindsight is 20/20 but I don’t think that Sansa telling the truth would have made a dent of a difference either. Cersei was out to get blood and Robert was spineless about things, as he’s always been. We weren’t given Sansa’s POV for this event so we will never know what she was thinking when she lied but my guess is what she didn’t want to inflame an already tense situation. Sansa was pretty much in a lose-lose situation.

For all our arguing, I think it should be pretty clear that the ones responsible for Mycah’s death isn’t Sansa or Arya but Joffrey and the Lannisters. And the Hound, too. (I know that some argue that he is just following orders but he did not have to butcher the poor boy into tiny pieces.)

Sorry if this is detracting from the current discussion. Will try to make a coherent post on the current chapter. :)

[Lummel]

...There was a lot of disturbing things about the brothel scene. Gendry tells Arya it is no place for a Lady, but in truth it is no place for any young girl or child. If Bella was conceived during the rebellion then she can only be 16 at this point. A woman grown according to Westeros, but how long as she been working there and how old are the other girls? The man who approaches Arya, who is 10 approaching 11, seems to think it likely she is available, which is rather sickening. Is this a normal state of affairs or is this an effect of war?...

My guess would be that it is normal / not unheard of in peacetime. Reading the news it doesn't seem unheard of in the present day, if not quite so open as here.

What I like about the Peach is the reminder of Renly's peach, so the peach suggests the pleasures and enjoyments of life (well bearing in mind the above at least for the eater). Nice to see the drop of Targaryen blood works it's influence in at least some of Bob's children.

Thinking about the sandor and Arya storyline - I feel that GRRM has his cake and eats it too, I'll try to remember to mention that when we get further along.

All the band sleeping together in one bed, presumably one like this the picture does not give an impression of just how wide it is, like the crow cages suggest imprisonment, the brothel to, if I dare steal one of Lyanna Stark's lines, is a gilded cage, all of which contrasts with the wolf dream in which Arya is free (and notably in charge).

The whole Riverland sequence I feel is a demonstration of life not being a dream and a knight being no more than a man with a sword and a horse. The reality of war - pointless violence enacted on random non-combatants contrasts with the brave sight of those same men marshalled before Bran's eyes before marching off on Robb's awfully grand adventure in AGOT. We're reminded of the absolute division between the lordly and non-lordly view on the world in the dialogue of the chapter too. The lord's sons have run off with the Young Wolf. The towns people have been left to fend for themselves.

Which links back, obliquely, to the theme of power. Is leadership a duty and a responsibility or simply a means of self indulgence and the pursuit of ones own interests.

[1234567]

Excellent points Lummel. The gilded cage is an exceptionally good description.

Also good analysis on the Peach. :)

[Blisscraft]

The Huntsman - This chapter and the last show the "hunt" for the Lightening Lord. However, the Huntsman, seems to be another illusive, but important figure in this quest. The villagers note that they have sheep for food provided by the Huntsman. Also, the Huntsman is out and about seeking Jaime Lannister. The Huntsman, presently a seeker and provider for the villagers has a sad and terrible past:

When the westernmen came through they raped the Huntsman's wife and sister, put his crops to the torch, ate half his sheep, and killed the other half for spite. Killed six dogs too, and threw the carcasses down his well.

Also, the "Mad" Huntsman is responsible for the men in the crow cages and is now the source of "justice" for the village. The Huntman was once, perhaps, a farmer or shepard based upon the above description. His life is now a ruin because of the war. War transformed him from a steward of the land and to his family to the Huntman seeking "justice" for the wrongs done to him and his family.

The huntsman is symbolically the embodiment of desire. He represents a restless spirit who seeks action for its own sake, the pursuit of transitoriness and the will to remain part of an endless chase. He will never be satified with the present, only a future he will never run down. He is doomed as he will never snare the quarry he doggedly pursues. Peace forever eludes him.

As portrayed in this chapter the Huntman is chasing, not only "evil doers," but also vengence for his past. This is an important idea for Arya's character arc. The Huntsman's "justice" moves Arya to sympathy for the caged men, who were perhaps part of her "pack." She offers the dying men water, as a mercy, and then they are given "mercy" in the form of a quick death, as opposed to the slow and tortuous process the Huntsman provided the wrong doers. Also, the Huntsman's justice is in the form of vigilantism. The Lord is dead, his sons are away, so the Huntman has taken the task of providing justice for wrongs to the village upon himself. He is "above" the law and not part of a larger system. The law is what he says it is. As is the punishment. The Huntsman is part of the cycle of violence in the Riverlands. He is an "eye for an eye" type.

If anything, the Huntsman, as a symbol and a character in Arya's chapters reveals the emptiness and spiritual wasteland that may await her if she choses to simply follow or pursue the path of vengence. He is a warning to us and to her to reexamine or need to pursue and punish.

ETA: Interesting that the Huntsman is so involved in the same town where Robert Baratheon, noted huntsman himself, had one of his great victories. Also, this association with Robert and the Huntsman reillustrates the utter misery and dissatisfaction Robert had with kingship and ruling. He'd rather be hunting, which proved to be the death of him.

[Mladen]

@Rapsie, what to tell you other tha well done. This was really nicely written, well thought of, and beautifully presented. Congrats as always

Now, I have to focus on sex and whores. This chapter comes not just as the logical continuation of Arya`s storyarc, then also as a continuation of Stark kids facing sex in life. Just a chapter before this one, we have Sansa`s marriage chapter, and Tyrion`s decision not to take advantage of her, as he said

“Why,” he said,“that is why the gods made whores for imps like me.” He closed his short blunt fingers into a fist, and climbed down off the bed.

Sansa, unlike Arya, had never been in brothel, so it`s wonderful to make parallels how whores become shortly part of their lives. Arya, acknowledges the brothel by observing, while for Sansa it`s something unknown. The only thing she knows about them is that Tyrion visits them. The nice parallel can also be drawn between how they are seen as sexual objects. Both Tyrion and man at brothel see them as desirable, and both of them clearly expressed no desie for sex.

As for family, this chapter wonderfully continued the tone of Arya`s lostness and her desire to find her pack. Again, she is ashamed by her family`s doings, whether it`s Robb`s men or Catelyn`s releasing Jaime. Also, there is this searching motive in this chapter. When she hurts Gendry, she is also hurt, not because she was rude, then because she cares for him. In a way, he became more brother to her than any of her real brothers. And, that`s wonderful theme in Arya`s chapters. The family isn`t just the people we share blood with, it`s those that surround us and those we care about.

[conon394]

he became more brother to her than any of her real brothers. And, that`s wonderful theme in Arya`s chapters. The family isn`t just the people we share blood with, it`s those that surround us and those we care about.

I would differ on that Jon is her brother, the one she always remembers and the one she wants to go to. It is important to recall she has (is) worried that neither Robb (as King) nor Cat will ransom her for reasons of State or what she has become and done, but she never doubts she could trust Jon at the wall. She is angry at most of her family (the Adults) and her father's men but as I recall Jon alone is the only one she trusts absolutely in her memory/thoughts without doubt or worry.

[Mladen]

I would differ on that Jon is her brother, the one she always remembers and the one she wants to go to. It is important to recall she has (is) worried that neither Robb (as King) nor Cat will ransom her for reasons of State or what she has become and done, but she never doubts she could trust Jon at the wall. She is angry at most of her family (the Adults) and her father's men but as I recall Jon alone is the only one she trusts absolutely in her memory/thoughts without doubt or worry.

I was thinking about Robb, Bran and Rickon. Jon is completely different story. He is Needle, he is part of her home, part of her identity. It`s so funny how both of them pull each other back in terms of their family. Just like Needle pulls Arya back from FM, Arya being married to Ramsay pulls Jon to leave NW. In one way, Jon and Arya are for each other the best connection between them and Winterfell

[conon394]

I was thinking about Robb, Bran and Rickon. Jon is completely different story. He is Needle, he is part of her home, part of her identity. It`s so funny how both of them pull each other back in terms of their family. Just like Needle pulls Arya back from FM, Arya being married to Ramsay pulls Jon to leave NW. In one way, Jon and Arya are for each other the best connection between them and Winterfell

I see, fair enough, it will be interesting to how they meet each other again (assuming Jon is not dead) given all they have both done and seen. Will it be the same as when they parted - since both have kept the memory of each other untouched and unsullied by events even though they are both disillusioned toward say Ned at times and the rest of everything they once held solid. Its also interesting that Arya will will not betray Jon (for Needle) to her father, and Jon will really break his vow for Arya (unlike for Ned's death and Robb's war) an odd pair indeed.

[ShadowCat Rivers]

On the Mad Huntsman and the crow cages: when I was reading the Jon Connington chapters, this passage had a feeling of déjà vu:

For years afterward, Jon Connington told himself that he was not to blame, that he had done all that any man could do. His soldiers searched every hole and hovel, he offered pardons and rewards, he took hostages and hung them in crow cages and swore that they would have neither food nor drink until Robert was delivered to him. All to no avail. “Tywin Lannister himself could have done no more,” he had insisted one night to Blackheart, during his first year of exile.

“There is where you’re wrong,” Myles Toyne had replied. “Lord Tywin would not have bothered with a search. He would have burned that town and every living creature in it. Men and boys, babes at the breast, noble knights and holy septons, pigs and whores, rats and rebels, he would have burned them all. When the fires guttered out and only ash and cinders remained, he would have sent his men in to find the bones of Robert Baratheon. ...

This time Stoney Sept has its share of the Tywin treatment and the crow cages are once more filled with men. This time it's the defenders of the town that use this as a punishement for war criminals. Any illusions the readers could have, that there might be "white" sides in a war, are swept away. Once more, Rob's men are proven to be just as any other troop, pillaging and raping. Siding with the innocent victims of war, then, those who fight to protect their lands and families. Only they are not so innocent any more. The war can make a monster out of anyone.

If I remember correctly, this is the first time that Arya attends a gift of mercy "ceremony", becoming accustomed to the idea that there are things worse than death. Although she hates the caged men and feels like hurting them, she can't stand to leave them suffering. This is something to hold for later, when she refuses to give the gift to the Hound.

Clothes again: the girls of the Peach dress her like one of Sansa's dolls in linen and lace. It made me imagine those girls as having barely passed the age of playing with dolls, almost children still... and yet, they are sex workers. For some of them, like Bella, the brothel (a no-no place for a highborn lady, or for a man's sister) must have been all they have ever known, their family and only apparent destination in life...

[Lummel]

...If I remember correctly, this is the first time that Arya attends a gift of mercy "ceremony", becoming accustomed to the idea that there are things worse than death. Although she hates the caged men and feels like hurting them, she can't stand to leave them suffering. This is something to hold for later, when she refuses to give the gift to the Hound...

Although there she reverses it and sentences him to life. Arya, tough on crime, tough on the cause of crime :laugh: (sorry old British politics reference).

[idler]

@Rapsie: ShadowCat Rivers did it right. The name of the place is Stoney Sept, not Stoney Step.

[1234567]

@Rapsie: ShadowCat Rivers did it right. The name of the place is Stoney Sept, not Stoney Step.

:lol: That's the trouble with using spell check when writing about ASOIAF!

[Elba the Intoner]

All I can say here is that I am so so so glad that Gendry did not take up Bella's offer to "ring her bell"! Ugh! Considering they are most likely step siblings that would have been really icky. Yes, this whole chapter has a real seedy and ominous undertone, despite the apparent jolliness at the Peach and even the Huntsman getting revenge for the townspeople for the atrocities committed on them.

[Blisscraft]

Shadowcat -

On the Mad Huntsman and the crow cages: when I was reading the Jon Connington chapters, this passage had a feeling of déjà vu:

This time Stoney Sept has its share of the Tywin treatment and the crow cages are once more filled with men. This time it's the defenders of the town that use this as a punishement for war criminals. Any illusions the readers could have, that there might be "white" sides in a war, are swept away. Once more, Rob's men are proven to be just as any other troop, pillaging and raping. Siding with the innocent victims of war, then, those who fight to protect their lands and families. Only they are not so innocent any more. The war can make a monster out of anyone.

I agree. Another aspect to the Huntsman's appearance (and this relates to the Stoney Sept's past and JC's, too) is that he serves as a warning, like a bell, so to speak, that vengence for violence is a cycle of death and destruction. It is a warning, not only to us, but also to Arya.

[Uncat]

I see, fair enough, it will be interesting to how they meet each other again (assuming Jon is not dead) given all they have both done and seen. Will it be the same as when they parted - since both have kept the memory of each other untouched and unsullied by events even though they are both disillusioned toward say Ned at times and the rest of everything they once held solid. Its also interesting that Arya will will not betray Jon (for Needle) to her father, and Jon will really break his vow for Arya (unlike for Ned's death and Robb's war) an odd pair indeed.

Winter Queen, Tree-Boy, Death-Girl and Dead Guy meet in a bar :lmao:

Sorry, just head to picture it.

[conon394]

Winter Queen, Tree-Boy, Death-Girl and Dead Guy meet in a bar

I like it but does that Winter Queen gets to say hey Death-Girl why the long face...

[ShadowCat Rivers]

Another aspect to the Huntsman's appearance (and this relates to the Stoney Sept's past and JC's, too) is that he serves as a warning, like a bell, so to speak, that vengence for violence is a cycle of death and destruction. It is a warning, not only to us, but also to Arya.

I agree it's a warning, but I was thinking more about the aphorism "the end justifies the means".

In a place where justice is mostly a do it yourself thing, it's very difficult to distinguish it from vengeance. Huntsman's cause has started off as righteous. But, contrary to the famous Macciavelli saying, the means, more often than not, have the power to alter or even define the cause.

Looking at the mirror and see if they are becoming the enemy could be a way to end the vicious circle. Not many can do it though as people don't often question themselves. Thoros in Brienne's chapter is one of the few exceptions.

Maybe Arya's "see with your eyes" ability can help her out of this cycle.