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Milady of York

From Pawn to Player: Rethinking Sansa XIX

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The epic PtP reread and rethinking threads with the marvelous and thought provoking analysis of different themes and how they relate to Sansa's development is truly brilliant.

WOW laments why Sansa, well why not? Her character development through the books is so subtle and she shows so much development in her world view it's fascinating. I emphasize with her. Reading these threads opens my mind to so much that I would have missed. It makes rereads so much more richer.

It's great that we are almost at Sansa rethinking XX.

Thanks so much to all the regular contributors for your time and effort to make this journey so enjoyable for us.

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In short: why is the fan community of Sansa so different from the fans of other characters?

There are so many strong women in the text, love them, worship them, dream of them, be infatuated! Why not those, why Sansa?

Please, I really want to understand. I promise not to answer polemically but to simply read and learn and only to write back if something is beyond my language comprehension.

well you've listed a lot of your preferences, and here are mine: Sansa is an interesting and complex person that actually learns something substantial in the books.

any of these characters have a complete female life, a biography that includes sexuality, children or loss of children, serious moral dilemmata, power, family, evilness,

are you suggesting Sansa is not complete because she hasnt had sex ? Neither has Arya and you've listed her as a character you like. Is sex truly what makes a woman interesting? I'm interested to know, because maybe that's exclusively what we should be discussing on these forums then; the sexual lives of all the female characters... now how does that sound?

Now I'm not going to talk about children/loss of children because Sansa and Arya ARE children, what about power family and moral dilemma? Aren't ALL these themes present in Sansa's path? She feels like she betrays her family then loses them, she is stuck in a position with absolutely no power, much like theon, and moral dilemma? Didn't she stick her neck out for Dontos because it wasn't right *just to kill him like that* even though she didn't have to??? Does Arya have a moral dilemma about killing her victims? Hardly... it's worth discussing her lack of grief over what she's done. Perhaps question if Sansa were ever capable of committing such a crime?

Honestly, you say you want to know why Sansa is discussed so much, but then you show such ignorance of the character that I have to wonder to what an extent you were even paying attention? To what extent did you give Sansa the benefit of the doubt when reading her chapters, because to me your posts reads like you dismissed her from the start. She isn't radical, and chances are her actions and thoughts and the themes in her chapters are going to continue being understated and if that's not something you like, then it isn't something you like. That's ok, but if you come here and have a question about Sansa it's pretty rude to preface it with "I don't like Sansa.... buuuuut..."

As to the reread threads: well I don't read absolutely everything, I definitely read more than I post, but I think most of the things are of high quality. Extremely well written and researched.

Oh and one more thing (and definitely not the least important) I actually feel comfortable disagreeing with people here in a cordial manner. And you can't find that everywhere on the forum

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Ok, back to Elba and great analysis of the story.

I will now focus on 4 winds metaphor and parallel with Sansa. As we read in the story, btw Elba, thanks for posting the link, the east, the west and the south wind couldn`t have carried her to her true love. But, the north wind, the strongest of them, did.

In my interpretation, the winds are represented by men that were engaged and married with Sansa. The south wind is Joffrey, the west wind is Tyrion, and the east wind is Robin Arry or Harry the heir. None of those winds could have carried her to her true love. But, Northern wind could do that. Here I think that North wind is represented by Jon, and that he will enable Sansa her true love, How?

Well, as we know, Jon is her `hero` that killed Slynt, Robb`s will made him King in the North, and so he has power over her as his sister. Let we just say, if he, who believes in freedom of choice, gives that to Sansa, wouldn`t that be pushing her towards the true love, and further more giving her chance for happiness.

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Still finding some good things... More than half of his readers are women:

It is the richly imagined female characters in particular that set Martin apart from other fantasy writers, and have won him a legion of female fans; women readers make up slightly more than half of his fanbase, he thinks. ‘It’s one of the things that please me most.'

http://www.telegraph...-RR-Martin.html

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As some of you might know, it's always been a desire of mine to have analyses done on the three principal female characters that Sansa has not yet come into contact with in the novels - Arianne Martell, Asha Greyjoy, and Daenerys Targaryen - but whose storylines and development contain similar structures and themes from which we can glean insight into Sansa's journey, and the overall tapestry that Martin is weaving with respect to the female narratives in ASOIAF.

After a productive consultation with Milady of York, we were able to create a project which we felt would address very relevant issues, relating to both the past and future potential of these women, filtered through a common element in their arcs: the brother/sister relationship. We were also fortunate to gain the participation of three wonderful gentlemen for this project : Redviper9, Redriver and our very own Ragnorak. The detailed outline is listed below, and you can look forward to seeing the presentations in the coming weeks.

I would also request that we hold off on any discussion relating to the project until the presentations are made. Thank you.

Women In Power*

A From Pawn to Player: Rethinking Sansa Project

The From Pawn to Player: Rethinking Sansa project has always held in high regard serious and text-based analysis of Sansa’s character development throughout all the five ASOIAF volumes since the opening of the first Re-reading Sansa thread, and in accordance with this raison de etre, we periodically create projects of various lengths to explore the different aspects of her personality and narrative, which include analysing other male and female characters whose personal journeys could shed light on Sansa’s own. With this is mind, we hosts have embarked on a short project exploring the relationship between three important female POV characters, Daenerys Targaryen, Arianne Martell and Asha Greyjoy, and their respective brothers Viserys, Quentyn and Theon, as well as the possible patterns and parallels that might be applicable to Sansa’s relationship with three of her brothers who have and will impact her life choices, both personal and political.

As a guide for interested participants, we have laid out an outline of the three central issues we hope will be explored in this specific project and why we think that they could be important in enriching our understanding of these characters:

a. Brother/Sister Dynamics: This includes an exploration of each woman’s relationship with their brothers, how they shaped each other as they grew up, how their familial dynamics, their place in the family, the common or different upbringing, parental figures, sibling rivalry, and so on, helped form their sisters' personalities and how all this has influenced their personalities and worldview directly or indirectly.

b. The Pursuit of Power: With the exception of Sansa Stark, a recurrent theme in these three women is the desire for political power, be it for personal motives or for a perceived grander purpose. Therefore, we believe that it’d be very enlightening to analyse the role of political power and that which each brother plays or will play in how their sisters acquire it, with the aim of establishing whether the sisters’ view of their siblings contains some indication as to how they seek power and would implement it once acquired, along with how the deaths of their brothers affect and will affect Daenerys and Arianne’s political choices, and Asha’s possible use of her brother Theon for her own ends.

c. Implications for Sansa's narrative: Basically, this should be a compare/contrast/foreshadowing conclusion on how the mentioned brother/sister trios could shed light on Sansa's future interactions with the brothers that are believed to have a major impact on her life choices long-term: Jon Snow, Robb and Brandon Stark.

Each presenter is free to choose the approach most fitting as well as additional information that might be uncovered during the re-reading of each character’s chapters; however, as a general outline, we would like to suggest that every presenter focus on a determined brother depending on the female character of choice:

1.
The presenter that's writing about Daenerys and Viserys Targaryen should take Sansa/Jon into consideration due to the Mother of Dragon and the NW’s Lord Commander being two of the characters forecasted as having a huge impact on the future outcome of events in ASOIAF.

2.
The presenter exploring Asha and Theon Greyjoy would have to consider Sansa/Bran in view of the plotline in ADWD and the hints gleaned from the Theon sample POV from the 6
th
book.

3.
And finally, the presenter that has Arianne and Quentyn Martell as the subjects of his/her analysis will find that the ideal set of siblings for comparison are Sansa/Robb, considering events in ACOK/ASOS and AFFC/ADWD especially.

*This is not envisioned as a gendered discussion on women as rulers, whether they are competent or not, etc. We are instead focusing on the search for/acquisition of power and the avenues/approaches they will take in the future relating to this struggle, and the role their siblings have/will play.

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Wow I am not on site for one day and I missed a lot. I'd like to respond to this debate and I think I can do so without getting too off track. First of all, as Silverin and others mentioned, I love Sansa but that does not mean that it's exclusive only to her. I also love Arya, Brienne and Cat for example and Cersei I find interesting because even though she is a reprehensible human being, her struggles are very modern and "feminist" in the sense that her character is constantly addressing the issue of gender roles and a woman's place in her society. I find all the characters mentioned above to be dealing with this issue in their own ways. Sansa's story is as much about agency and wanting to live life on her own terms as Arya's, Cat's, Brienne's and Cersei's are. Just because she doesn't run around with a knife sticking people with the pointy end doesn't mean she isn't trying to fight back against the system. That is what her courtesy armor and refusing to kneel was all about as well as her efforts to flee King's Landing (which she was very active in). She is learning constantly that she wants to be loved for herself, not her claim, she does not want to be passed around as a piece of meat anymore which is very much the same feeling as Cersei, and just because she is very feminine doesn't mean that she is just sitting around doing nothing and not trying to fight back. If others don't agree and don't like Sansa, that's fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I have characters I don't like too (Stannis/Asha) but I get why others do and to each their own. I think this is why so many people including myself are so attracted to this book series. I was not a big fantasy reader aside from my girlhood obsession with Star Wars, because I did not see a big role for females in the stories I saw most people talking about. It seemed like most of them revolved around the men only and any female characters were relegated to the cliche, one dimensional warrior woman kickass who still has to wear revealing sexy outfits or mysterious, ethereal fairies/witches. But this isn't just some common fantasy story. It deals with very modern issues that are based on an incredible understanding of history and has a huge cast of wonderfully well rounded characters including realistic, strong females. I wonder if labeling this story as fantasy even limits it in some way because it brings to mind a narrow stereotype of a story.

Second, the reasons why I think this particular group and thread has been so enduring has to do with a couple of things. One is that every few months as new posters join the forum the Sansa hate and misunderstanding about her character crops up again. That tends to bring out the Sansa supporters to debate them. It's a cycle that I have seen repeated here quite a few times now. The other thing is that there happens to be a very dedicated leader in Brashcandy who has tenaciously dedicated herself to maintaining an interesting discussion, which in turn has led to attracting posters here who have things they want to learn and others who want to teach and discuss, so we've now got things like Milady of York's Beauty and the Beast project. I have learned so much from other people's essays and from the ones I myself have written. For example I have learned about wedding customs in other parts of the world, I have learned about current feminist terminology like "third wave feminism" and "agency", I have learned about midieval history, I have learned about ancient history and greek and norse mythology, I have learned more about religions and I have learned about the purposes behind fairytales and other folklore. I will never look at a fairy tale the same way again as it is now so obvious to me how much they have hidden agendas like promoting the arranged marriage of a girl to a man she has not met.

This brings me back to some comments about my essay on East of the Sun and West of the Moon:

By Mladen

As I said in my previous post, the uniqness of San/San story is in that dual transformation - both his and hers. And I strongly believe, if they would ever be given a chance, the only way it could work is for them to reach for another one in themselves. Sandor for Sansa in him, and Sansa for Sandor in her.
Le Cygne echoed this sentiment by mentioning the quote from Tze's post about how Sansa is bringing the Hound closer to a beast like the one that is within her. This brings me back to our discussion of arranged marriages in general that we had a couple of threads ago. There has to be a mutual acceptance and compromise on behalf of both parties to a marriage for it to work, and this is true of any marriage, whether arranged or not. Cat and Ned are a good example of how a couple, even to an arranged marriage that was not either one's first choice, can make it work. Of all these fairy tales that we have looked at, Beauty and the Beast emphasizes and encourages this aspect the most as it is as much about both "spouses" change and acceptance. This is also why a forced marriage can never work, because the dynamic is so one sided to the one forcing the marriage and doesn't allow the motivation for either party to make it work.

I also noticed that there is a common sentiment that I saw running through the romantic relationships in this last TV episode, which GRRM wrote (most of), with the line, "I am yours and you are mine." This came up with Jon and Ygritte and Robb and Talisa I believe, and last year we heard it with Tyrion and Shae. This expresses the same idea as what we have been talking about, with both parties bringing a part of themselves to the marriage and becoming one when the other embraces or grabs onto that aspect from their partner. This is more than just some sappy romantic line because it is a significant statement that represents the underlying bond of a marriage. In fact, there is a beautiful line that is said in the Jewish wedding ceremony which is the key part of the vows and which represents this very thought. In Hebrew it is said, "Ani l'dodi v'dodi li", which means I am my beloved's and my beloved is mine.

Mladen I have been trying to catch up in your thread in the TV forum and I am sorry that I fell behind and was not able to help you in your tireless efforts to support Sansa. I did notice that a heated discussion took place between arranged vs. forced marriages and I only wish more people would be willing to take a more in depth approach to Sansa's story and see that part of what makes her so compelling is that she is very much dealing with these issues that are relevant even in today's world.

Brashcandy, I was writing this admittedly long post as you posted about the next project. Sounds great and I am so glad we are getting new people involved. Can't wait!

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Great work Ragnorak and Elba the Intoner! I wasn't very familiar with either tale, so I found both essays very enlightening and informative.

Ragnorak, while I confess I did not initially think of Ned when reading your essay, but when brashcandy posited him as a potential godfather figure, it made complete sense to me. I've often wondered myself how much influence Ned had on Sandor. I also immediately thought of the conversation between Sansa and Sandor at Maegor's Holdfast that brashcandy quoted. And while I may be reaching with this one, I also thought about the conversation between Sandor and Arya in which he asks why "Ned's precious daughter" would know the likes of Gregor and his men. I picked up a tone of resentment in how he said it. Ned would certainly protect his own children from people like Gregor and his men, something Sandor's father failed with him. Yet it's Sandor who steps into the role of protector for both Sansa and Arya which I believe shows Ned has been quite influential.

Elba, the presence of a mother figure in the tale you analyzed really piqued my interest, especially since she provides bad advice that brings ill luck. Since the readers never experience Catelyn directly interacting with her daughters (which is interesting in and of itself) we don't know what kind of womanly advice she provided them, if any, but it's clear from all three POVs that she had a positive influence and the bond between the three is strong. Sansa often thinks she needs to be as strong as her lady mother, Arya is desperate to be reunited with Catelyn and her grief is profound when she can't get to her in time, and Catelyn makes the return of her daughters a top priority.

In the Beauty and the Beast tales and East of the Sun and West of the Moon, the heroines' families profit greatly after sacrificing their daughters to these beasts. A possible inversion to this could be that both Sansa and Arya are betrothed to members of families responsible for their own family's destruction, yet the betrothals were arranged to profit the Starks, both politically and militarily.

Elba, I haven't had time to explore the links you provided, but I hope to do so today.

Brashcandy, this upcoming project sounds fascinating!

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@laylaC

I have in no way tried to compare Brienne to Sansa so directly, but Brienne ws the first example that came to my mind when looking for a character that is hugely interesting without being a "grey" one. Her character is a discourse about "goodness". Of course she is much older than Sansa. The point is: Brienne is, given her martial competence, in a position to do evil and yet consciously decides against it. Sigh, yes she is naive and absolute but I think she knows even that.

THAT was derailment.

You have no place in the Sansaverse Woman of War.

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I also noticed that there is a common sentiment that I saw running through the romantic relationships in this last TV episode, which GRRM wrote (most of), with the line, "I am yours and you are mine." This came up with Jon and Ygritte and Robb and Talisa I believe, and last year we heard it with Tyrion and Shae. This expresses the same idea as what we have been talking about, with both parties bringing a part of themselves to the marriage and becoming one when the other embraces or grabs onto that aspect from their partner. This is more than just some sappy romantic line because it is a significant statement that represents the underlying bond of a marriage. In fact, there is a beautiful line that is said in the Jewish wedding ceremony which is the key part of the vows and which represents this very thought. In Hebrew it is said, "Ani l'dodi v'dodi li", which means I am my beloved's and my beloved is mine.

This is really great observation, Elba. I would argue that for Sandor and Sansa, it`s not just about belonging to each other. I think it`s more like a safe port. These two for each other represent so much. It`s the person they rely on, person that can heal or protect. And we see it so many times in the books. It all began when Sandor opened up to Sansa and told her his most intimate secret. Later, when Sansa was in trouble, he advised her to lie, he saved her from the mob, he defied Joffrey, he was the perfect knight to Sansa. And it all culminated when he, after fighting in fire for so long, lost his nerve and control, and ran away from battlefield, straight to her room. and although he demanded a romantic song, Sansa gave him a spiritual one, `Mother`s hymn` to soothe his pain and calm him down (Milady wrote a great essay about this scene and songs at the beginning of this thread). So, whenever each one of them needed the other one, they were there. To keep and protect, to help and heal. And even in TV show, Sansa sees through Sandor and make him understand `You won`t hurt me`. This was particularly important in order to show that their relationship has so many layers. So, for Sandor and Sansa, love isn`t about owning, it`s about protecting, guiding and keeping safe. And that is one of the greatest love ideals.

Mladen I have been trying to catch up in your thread in the TV forum and I am sorry that I fell behind and was not able to help you in your tireless efforts to support Sansa. I did notice that a heated discussion took place between arranged vs. forced marriages and I only wish more people would be willing to take a more in depth approach to Sansa's story and see that part of what makes her so compelling is that she is very much dealing with these issues that are relevant even in today's world.

Thanks Elba. Rapsie was extremly helpful. She joined me and fough alongside me, but I don`t think either of us was ready for that thread to become what it became. For me it was tiresome, I got offended more time than I can recall, my favorite is `sociopath`, but it was worthy. Sometimes you can`t convince people, but it`s good to let them read what you think. Rapsie was the one battling with several posters about forced/arranged mariages, and she made impressive case about it, from both literary and historical POV. I have to say I really admire her patience and intelectual knowledge that led her to be that impressive in those debates. Unfortunately, Tv subforum is awful place and I would recommend anyone not to go there. First, you`ll be offended gravely, and second you won`t read much well thought posts. You, ladies are for better things... :blushing:

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Wow, so just catched up with 2-3 days of the thread!

Elba, I knew as soon as I saw you'd written an essay about East of the Sun and West of the Moon that you would do it justice, but you went beyond that and made it quite the enjoyable, well researched, delighfult in depth-analysis!! A hundred "likes" to the much missed like button!

And I was very excited to see the upcoming project in relationship to Asha/Theon, Arianne/Quentyn and Dany/Viserys, and the way it will be related to Sansa's relationship to her own brothers. Hopefully little Rickon has in future books a more direct involvement in Sansa's storyline. Wonder what brother/sister could parallel their relationship then (:

And now, forgive me for this little off-topic rambling of mine, but after reading that whole bunch of previous comments regarding Sansa.. can i just say: :bowdown: I love the character of Sansa Stark!

Ever since my passion for reading started i've been going through six months stages or something where i fell for a certain book or character, from Meggie Cleary to Gueneviere and Becky Sharp, to Scarlett O'Hara, Kitty Fane,many of Dickens' or Hardy's heroines or Ellen Olenska, but it is only Sansa Stark (and this thread had a lot to do behind this) the only one who has managed to capture my attention for more than half a year (it's been about two years now since this happened), and if she ends up remaining my favourite character tilll I die, then I will be quite happy with that (:

why Sansa? Because of everything that has ever been discussed and remains to be discovered about her in the From Pawn to Player threads once Geroge gets around to publishing the upcoming books! :)

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Great work Ragnorak and Elba the Intoner! I wasn't very familiar with either tale, so I found both essays very enlightening and informative.

Ragnorak, while I confess I did not initially think of Ned when reading your essay, but when brashcandy posited him as a potential godfather figure, it made complete sense to me. I've often wondered myself how much influence Ned had on Sandor. I also immediately thought of the conversation between Sansa and Sandor at Maegor's Holdfast that brashcandy quoted. And while I may be reaching with this one, I also thought about the conversation between Sandor and Arya in which he asks why "Ned's precious daughter" would know the likes of Gregor and his men. I picked up a tone of resentment in how he said it. Ned would certainly protect his own children from people like Gregor and his men, something Sandor's father failed with him. Yet it's Sandor who steps into the role of protector for both Sansa and Arya which I believe shows Ned has been quite influential.

I would be most curious to hear an inner monologue about what Sandor's opinion of Ned is. They obviously know of each other mutually if casually and Ned's reputation is certainly well known. I wonder if Sandor's dismissiveness of Sansa's courtesies throughout AGOT and ACOK until he figures out they are really her is a projection of Sandor's attitude towards Ned. Though Ned is a lord and not a knight, I could see Sandor having both grudging respect and yet a dismissive attitude towards Sansa's father.

How Sandor had been sort of a father figure for Joffrey and Arya (his "about your mother..." line is so poignant and heartbreaking) is also a corollary.

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I would be most curious to hear an inner monologue about what Sandor's opinion of Ned is. They obviously know of each other mutually if casually and Ned's reputation is certainly well known. I wonder if Sandor's dismissiveness of Sansa's courtesies throughout AGOT and ACOK until he figures out they are really her is a projection of Sandor's attitude towards Ned. Though Ned is a lord and not a knight, I could see Sandor having both grudging respect and yet a dismissive attitude towards Sansa's father.

How Sandor had been sort of a father figure for Joffrey and Arya (his "about your mother..." line is so poignant and heartbreaking) is also a corollary.

The "about your mother" line brings me to my knees every time I read it. It defines Sandor so well, reinforcing him as a protector. Up until this point, he's been protecting both Sansa and Arya in his own way, but he really has no invested interest in saving Catelyn. The risk clearly outweighs the gain. Yet, he's actually willing to go for it. And it isn't for monetary gain or a chance to find a new master and kennel. He considers it because it's the right thing to do. Brashcandy points out his potential to protect the Stark family. I was so emotionally gutted when Arya abandoned Sandor with the parting line "You should have saved my mother." He's left on his deathbed with the accusation that he failed. He failed at the one thing he does best--act as a protector. He didn't save Sansa, which is the big regret he chokes out, and he couldn't live up to Arya's expectations, even though he was ultimately willing to try.

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The stories seem to have set up Sandor as the only person who has the keys to returning the Stark girls to being ‘whole’. Obviously by whole I don’t mean without their scars. But chipping away at the innocence in them that each has in a different way and bringing them to a point where they are aware of the kind of world they live in and that world’s expectations of them. The innocence theme works better with Sansa’s character; she’s the more naive one. But Sandor’s thirst for revenge also is a catalyst for Arya in their psychological similarities. Martin seems to have broken him down and then put him in a place to rebuild him with the Elder Brother who seems a perfect candidate to both understand him and help him heal. It seems to me that Martin has left the possibility open that through Sandor’s former care for the girls and his present healing (I’ll hope that’s the case) that he is the only character who could have future interactions with them that would help to both right their worldview and keep intact the aspects of them that are so important to who they truly are, namely, not Alayne but Sansa; not No One but Arya.

I apologize, unable to state that better or elaborate on it right now!

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Most of the time I only lurk and read all the wonderful essays presented in this thread. Truly this is one of my favorite threads. I love the characters of Sansa and Sandor.

My one regret throughout the series in regard to Sandor has been the fact that he allowed Arya to stab and give the gift of mercy to the young squire who had Needle. I have felt that Arya's character was in such a downward spiral and to me this was the one area where Sandor did not protect her. My husband says she was acting like Ned Stark and the North idea of doing the actual killing oneself but my mother's heart ..well it did not sit right with me..I somehow do not think Ned would have allowed Arya to do this..more about protecting her from herself so to speak. I have really gone over and over this in my mind..and I eventually thought that at some point Sandor needs to atone or have a meeting with Arya to apologise over this incident and in some way help Arya actually forgive herself.

Karmani, I want to thank you for your post about Sandor being the only character who could possibly help Sansa and Arya become whole again. Your comment about Sandor being the only one with the key to perhaps help Arya heal because he was with her during her worst moments of revenge. They share a memory alone together..that moment in the inn, and now that he is learning and healing spiritually and physically with the Elder brother, I think his complete healing will not really be done until he can help Arya to health and in some way I think only Sandor CAN help Arya. No one else has lived through the experience in that inn but Sandor and Arya. I want to thank you for your post; it actually brought tears to my eyes. I surely do hope Martin will unite these characters so that all three of them can fully complete the broken circle between them and heal completely.

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Here’s something I just found when re-reading the fourth book. In the AFFC index listing Houses and their bannermen & retainers, there’s this man as bannerman to House Arryn in the Vale:

ALESANDOR TORRENT, Lord of Littlesister.

Now, we both a certain someone called Sandor who was in the company of Sansa's sister, and who's supposed to have died in the previous book…

The Hound answered. “Seven hells. The little sister. The brat who tossed Joff’s pretty sword in the river.”

This is an inside joke on the part of GRRM, it seems, as Sansa is listed there as well as Alayne Stone, and this man's first name isn't given in the narrative itself, just his surname Torrent. He's such a tease...

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This is an inside joke on the part of GRRM, it seems, as Sansa is listed there as well as Alayne Stone, and this man's first name isn't given in the narrative itself, just his surname Torrent. He's such a tease...

Definitely a nice teaser :)

GOT spoiler:

A very strong episode overall, which I actually enjoyed, despite my fears for how the Tyrion/Sansa wedding would be portrayed. I was actually more peeved with the scene where he comes to her before and gets her to smile right at the end than I was over her kneeling at the wedding. I figured that's how it would play out, but it's a shame they couldn't find a way to show this as an independent choice of Sansa's not to submit to the Lannisters. I was very happy that they kept her line about never wanting to sleep with him. I also thought Sansa had been aged up more....

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Thank you, Lady Arya. I was touched that you were!

Must say though, that I

wonder whether the tv show will have Arya's first eye she "closes" be the Hound's, based on the 03x09 preview.

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My dear friends, I would like to use this opportunity to invite you to read my Review of Sansa`s wedding and bedding scenes, I posted on TV subforum. I hope you`ll like it and as always, I would be more than happy to read your insights. Also, I would like to thank brashcandy for dedicating her time and led the conversation since I wasn`t able to. Thank you, brash, it means so much to me.

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Hello,

I'm not sure if I have mentioned this before, but can I be a bit fan-girly and say how much I enjoy reading all of your essays.

When I first started reading ASoIaF Sansa was not my favouite character, but as the books progressed I started to really love her (about SoS-ish). But reading the essays on here, and seeing all of your hard work go into it, I'v come to love her even more and, if I had to rank, I'd say she'd be in my top 5 all time favourites.

So, wonderfull job you guys are all doing and keep at it :) I really enjoy reading it all

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