“Born amidst salt and smoke” Prophecy has been fulfilled.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Would a prophecy differentiate between steam and smoke? :dunno:

Doubt it.

speaking of which, I just remembered that steam isn't only produced by fire. Ice, somehow, does to but there is some science required to. Maybe in this case, magic, who knows

(yes, I'm terrible terrible at Chemistry...)

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Doubt it.

speaking of which, I just remembered that steam isn't only produced by fire. Ice, somehow, does to but there is some science required to. Maybe in this case, magic, who knows

(yes, I'm terrible terrible at Chemistry...)

Smoke is made by fire. Steam is made by boiling water.

Smoke machines generate "dry ice" which is actually solid carbon dioxide sublimating in the air, I believe.

ETA: I don't know what make very cold stuff smokey, unless the CO2 in the air was reverse-sublimated (right word?) solid and then sublimates back into a gas when it warms up.

[Targaryen_Rubies]

There's also the bleeding star - the dead Ser Patrek's sigil was a star, smoke- his stab wound smoked, and salt - Bowen Marsh's tears. So that's Jon's two lots of everything to Dany's one, although Jon hasn't woken any dragons from stone.

ETA:

This is also a problem. Still, Jon still has one smoking thing in his favour.

I thought the waking dragons from stones isn't in the prophecy and simply what Melisandre promises to do with King's blood.

[TheButcherCrow]

Since when did boiled water smoke?

Boiling waters creates water vapors. Am I wrong?

Would a prophecy differentiate between steam and smoke? :dunno:

If there's a lot of steam then it could look like smoke?

Errrrm, water vapour is NOT the same as smoke. Boiled water = steam, not smoke.

Besides boiling water and Jon's wounds produce steam, not smoke :)

One presumes that something would have to be burned in order to boil the water correct? Water, as I know it, does not reach 100 celcius of it's own accord. Wood (most likely) was burned to create a fire which boiled the water. Listen, I don't actually subscribe to the Jon = AA thing but I can't believe I read a page of comments& no-one mentioned this.

[Frey family reunion]

Um, why is Jon getting stabbed to death becoming born?

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

One presumes that something would have to be burned in order to boil the water correct? Water, as I know it, does not reach 100 celcius of it's own accord. Wood (most likely) was burned to create a fire which boiled the water. Listen, I don't actually subscribe to the Jon = AA thing but I can't believe I read a page of comments& no-one mentioned this.

I am confused...

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Um, why is Jon getting stabbed to death becoming born?

It will probably lead to his rebirth.

[Frey family reunion]

It will probably lead to his rebirth.

Well wouldn't the conditions present during his "rebirth" be more significant then the conditions present when he was "killed"?

[Chickren]

One presumes that something would have to be burned in order to boil the water correct? Water, as I know it, does not reach 100 celcius of it's own accord. Wood (most likely) was burned to create a fire which boiled the water. Listen, I don't actually subscribe to the Jon = AA thing but I can't believe I read a page of comments& no-one mentioned this.

We're talking about steaming wounds, though. What was burned to create that? Calories?

[TheButcherCrow]

I am confused...

This thread started out with the OP saying that "smoke" was produced by boiling water. A bunch of folk pointed out, quite correctly, that this is steam, not smoke. I was merely pointing out that in order to boil water you need to burn something, as I assume the TOJ did not have an electric kettle, this burning would produce smoke. That is my point in it's entirety.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Well wouldn't the conditions present during his "rebirth" be more significant then the conditions present when he was "killed"?

I have thought about this before. The only excuse I can offer is that perhaps he is reborn just after he is stabbed.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

This thread started out with the OP saying that "smoke" was produced by boiling water. A bunch of folk pointed out, quite correctly, that this is steam, not smoke. I was merely pointing out that in order to boil water you need to burn something, as I assume the TOJ did not have an electric kettle, this burning would produce smoke. That is my point in it's entirety.

Ah I see.

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

One presumes that something would have to be burned in order to boil the water correct? Water, as I know it, does not reach 100 celcius of it's own accord. Wood (most likely) was burned to create a fire which boiled the water. Listen, I don't actually subscribe to the Jon = AA thing but I can't believe I read a page of comments& no-one mentioned this.

I was thinking the same thing. :laugh:

[lcd52]

Doubt it.

speaking of which, I just remembered that steam isn't only produced by fire. Ice, somehow, does to but there is some science required to. Maybe in this case, magic, who knows

(yes, I'm terrible terrible at Chemistry...)

I imagine 98 degree blood hitting freezing air would produce vapor, since 98 degree breath does.

[JaegrM]

¹smoke

noun \ˈsmōk\

Definition of SMOKE

1

a suspension of particles in a gas

2

a

:

a mass or column of smoke

b

:

smudge

3

:

fume or vapor often resulting from the action of heat on moistur

e

Based on this definition and the fact that Martin used the word smoking to describe Jon's wounds, I think it's safe to say that as far as the prophecy is concerned Smoke and steam are interchangeable

[Veltigar]

Since when did boiled water smoke? :bs:

:bowdown: :agree: :lol: :lmao:

[Young Nan]

I dont understand how people DONT think that it is Dany. She literally (1) walked into a smoking funeral pyre,(2) while a red comet was in the sky, (3) with mirri maz dur, jorah, and a hundred or so observers watching and probably crying salty tears, (4) literally woke dragons from stone, and (5) was reborn as the unburnt, mother of dragons, conquerer, etc.

Aemon, wisest and best educated guy in the realm, who himself has visions of the prophecy that he describes to Sam ("I still remember red, etc") outright says its her.

Then we have Jon, who may not even still be alive, who may get resurrected (or not), and the only basis for him being AA is his wound steamed in the cold, and there was a guy standing in the vicinity with a star sigil, which GRRM already verified was put there as a joke after he lost a football bet, and was supposed to look like the dallas cowboys' star. Patrik whatever his name was (the star sigil knight) was named after one of the players. Not to mention that Jon hasn't woken anything out of stone, either.

Dany meets all the criteria pretty literally, while Jon may sort of meet some of the criteria, IF you twist a lot of innocuous signs into prophecy criteria, and speculate about the guy even being alive still, which we don't know yet.

This thread's theory is premised upon the fact that they sterilized birthing "equipment" when Lyanna gave birth to him? That requires a lot of assumptions and leaps in logic.

[Veltigar]

I dont understand how people don't think that it is Dany. She literally walked into a smoking funeral pyre, while a red comet was in the sky, with mirri maz dur and god knows how man observers crying, literally woke dragons from stone, and was reborn as the unburnt, mother of dragons, conquere, etc. Aemon, wisest and best educated guy in the realm, who himself has visions of the prophecy that he describes to Sam ("I still remember red, etc") outright says its her.

Then we have Jon, who may not even still be alive, who may get resurrected (or not), and the only basis for him being AA is his wound steamed in the cold, and there was a guy standing in the vicinity with a star sigil, which GRRM already verified was put there after he lost a football bet, and was supposed to look like the dallas cowboys' star. He hasn't woken anything out of stone, either.

one meets all the criteria pretty literally, one may sort of meet two out of three criteria, IF you twist a lot of the signs and speculate about the guy even being alive still, which we don't know yet.

Jon just fits so neatly. Personally, I always thought that Jon was AA (even before ADWD although I had zero evidence) and that Dany was tPtwP (Aemon and his talk about the word in Old Valyrian being without a distinct gender)

[StarkDragon]

I always thought the boar in AGOT was AA, and Robert was his Nissa Nissa.

He was even born again in salt and smoke, from being cooked.

[Young Nan]

Jon just fits so neatly. Personally, I always thought that Jon was AA (even before ADWD although I had zero evidence) and that Dany was tPtwP (Aemon and his talk about the word in Old Valyrian being without a distinct gender)

He doesn't fit neatly at all. That's the whole point of my post. He has a smoking wound, and we all really really really want him to be resurrected (reborn), but the fact is, he HASN'T been resurrected yet, and he hasn't woken dragons from stone. You have to totally twist around a lot of the stuff that happened to him to make it fit.

And the "bleeding star" is a joke that GRRM wrote into the text. At least, if you interpret Patrik's bloody Dallas cowboy sigil flag as the "bleeding star".