[TV/Book Spoilers] TWOP Unsullied Thread Part 3

[Arkash]

I would officially like to sit near those of you who are on the Please Let Margery Kill Joffs With A Crossbow train. But, I sadly do not think that blesses event will happen this season. Why? Because without Joffrey, who would we hate with the fire of a thousand suns? Who would prove such a revolting (pun intended) king to be overthrown, compared to Joffs?

I really cannot imagine anyone else creating the bad energy that also is keeping so many storylines moving forward right now, other than Joffs.

Ramsay...

[kkae]

I'm not surprised at all they are guessing that Boltons will betray Starks. At this point they are not expecting anything good to happen to anyone. I think they are all still depressed about Ned's death although getting better. Their death pools have this year a lot less characters than last year. :P I would like to see them speculating also how things could improve rather than turn worse.

[Arkash]

Hehehe, their death pool amuses me :

Robb, Mormont, okay... but they dont, ironically, state Cat ! =D

Shae, Joffrey, you'll have to wait another season guys !

Ros, we dont even know ourselves.

Stannis, Brienne : no !!

Yeah, I do wonder if they'll ever speculate on good things to happen ! I really want the show to prove them they can trust the Reeds !

But in the same way, I really want to show to show them that after Joffrey, they dont have to worry, Ramsay shall be there for them to love hating someone !

[sagaz]

One of the most recent posts basically predicted the Bolton betrayal, and Roose becoming the ruler of the north. These guys are good.

that analisys (analysis?) it's great. All the Bolton's trajectory delineated, even through aDwD:

Right now, Bolton controls the North, not Robb. Right now, Bolton controls Harrenhal, not Robb. Right now, Bolton has Jaime, not Robb. And he has Theon, not Robb. All Bolton needs to cash in his new upgraded status is to switch sides to the Lannrathyrells. We know Cersei thinks they need a northerner to rule the north (despite Joffrey preferring the scorched earth approach), Bolton is a northerner. He was accepted as Robb's main advisor by the other Northmen, too. Now Bolton even has Jaime, a perfect position to negotiate with the current Hand of the King, Tywin Lannister.

Unfortunately, this is bad news for some characters:

Bolton has to bring Jaime back savely to Tywin. Bolton has to kill Brienne. She is a witness of Bolton's men taking Jaime, and this fact must never reach Robb.

For Bolton to solidify his hold of the North, Robb has to die. Bran and Rickon are dead as far as the Bolton's are concerned (even though they might learn the truth from Theon). Next in line is Sansa. If Bolton kills Robb for Tywin, in addition to freeing Jaime, I think Tywin will allow Bolton to marry Sansa and rule the North. This way, everyone wins.

However, Bolton has to kill Robb in a secret way, without the other Northerners to know.

on the dead list:

* Lord Commander: Mentor occupational hazard I'm afraid. Sam's not coming into his own with Mormont in charge and neither will Jon should he ever get back to the Night's Watch. Plus it conveniently opens up a job position for Jon.

those guys are amazing

[King Zee]

Next in line is Sansa. If Bolton kills Robb for Tywin, in addition to freeing Jaime, I think Tywin will allow Bolton to marry Sansa and rule the North. This way, everyone wins.

However, Bolton has to kill Robb in a secret way, without the other Northerners to know..

they're still thinking of a quiet palace coup the RW will come like a sledge hammer to them

[Shadow on the Wall]

Come on, this site is repleat with details on upcoming episodes. If you want to avoid spoilers on future episodes then stay out of any threads that have "Book Spoilers" in it. Even if you've read all the books (or up to ASoS) if you want to avoid future episode spoilers, avoid these threads that warn of spoilers.

On winteriscoming.net the people in charge there always post details about upcoming episodes with spoiler tags - even in threads where people are discussing all the released episodes in the series.

Was just hoping to read a thread discussing the Unsullied views of the show as it stands. I don't see how it could be expected for me to know what future episodes entail in order for me to discuss this. But I'm sure you would all be happy to know the ending of A Dream of Spring in advance - since that qualifies under "Book spoilers".

[kkae]

Yeah, I agree with the above. I don't think spoilers about upcoming episodes are okay since we are here mainly to read how non-book readers think about the show not to spoil ourselves how the show deviates from the books.

[protar]

on the dead list:

those guys are amazing

Tbh it's not overly difficult to predict that Jon will become LC. I mean it's set up late S1 and throughout S2 there are mentions of Jon wanting to lead.

[Shadow on the Wall]

They're really smart these Unsullied. That said, I'm sure that if a similar thing were possible with the books, we'd also similarly have unraveled Roose's betrayal. It's really quite obvious on the re-read but when you're turning pages fast and in excitement over what's going to come next it's easy to miss the subtle or not so subtle hints.

[ebevan91]

Reading those predictions makes me wonder, are the books/show too predictable?

[SerArthurHeath]

No, to make a book/show truly unpredictable you strongly risk utter randomness. If shows/books are following logic and internal consistency and we are given a decent insight into what is happening and what characters are like, we should be able to predict most of what happens except for Deus Ex Machina devices

[Peasant Rebel Leader]

1) There's nothing wrong with being predictable. That basically means that the characters are well characterized and are acting 'rationally' (in as we would expect based on their characters). So I'd say that's actually a good thing. (Many stories are not as predictable because they are told from one point of view btw..)

2) With the show, you have the hivemind of the internetforum + lots of time to discuss between the episodes. The law of conservation also means that the show can't "hide" important stuff as easily as the books. What's on the screen must be important after all. In the books you can bury it under lots of background stuff and additionally, language that isn't as clear as a picture is. Take the Arstan-Barristan thing. While it is quite clear in the books, it is hidden because of Dany's point of view of how he looks may contrast with how the "Westerosi" POV described him.

3) There are quite a few different kind of viewers. I'd wager the unsullied there are a very special case, not wanting to see the Bluray extras even. They are not the normal viewers. The standard viewers aren't on Internet Forums for a start (judging on how many watch the series ;)). So the show has to walk the thin line between being accesible for the 1) week-to-week viewers 1+) who reads the magazines, interviews and the previews, the 2) inbetween-season-binge-watching viewer (or in the future/20 years, the "want to watch a classical series"), the 3) casual book reader and the 4) book fan. The Unsullied are a subgroup of 1) and I'd say it's a good sign that it is so predictable for them because that means that groups #1-2 have a chance at seeing these things as well, but might still be suprised. Also, I'd put the intelligence of the unsullied quite high, and not all people are that smart ;)

[Dragonstoned]

Reading those predictions makes me wonder, are the books/show too predictable?

With regard to Roose, the books are not. Even with the massive amount of foreshadowing the RW came as a surprise to me, and there are people who didn't realise the 'man in the pink cloak' was Bolton. In the show we haven't even had the foreshadowing. About Jon it is more obvious though, especially with the emphasis in the show on him being groomed to lead.

Props to the unsullied for working out the Roose betrayal, but yeah they don't seem to have any idea yet how it will go down.

[Shadow on the Wall]

1) There's nothing wrong with being predictable. That basically means that the characters are well characterized and are acting 'rationally' (in as we would expect based on their characters). So I'd say that's actually a good thing. (Many stories are not as predictable because they are told from one point of view btw..)

2) With the show, you have the hivemind of the internetforum + lots of time to discuss between the episodes. The law of conservation also means that the show can't "hide" important stuff as easily as the books. What's on the screen must be important after all. In the books you can bury it under lots of background stuff and additionally, language that isn't as clear as a picture is. Take the Arstan-Barristan thing. While it is quite clear in the books, it is hidden because of Dany's point of view of how he looks may contrast with how the "Westerosi" POV described him.

3) There are quite a few different kind of viewers. I'd wager the unsullied there are a very special case, not wanting to see the Bluray extras even. They are not the normal viewers. The standard viewers aren't on Internet Forums for a start (judging on how many watch the series ;)). So the show has to walk the thin line between being accesible for the 1) week-to-week viewers 1+) who reads the magazines, interviews and the previews, the 2) inbetween-season-binge-watching viewer (or in the future/20 years, the "want to watch a classical series"), the 3) casual book reader and the 4) book fan. The Unsullied are a subgroup of 1) and I'd say it's a good sign that it is so predictable for them because that means that groups #1-2 have a chance at seeing these things as well, but might still be suprised. Also, I'd put the intelligence of the unsullied quite high, and not all people are that smart ;)

Exactly.

It's easy for them to analyse every little bit because

a) It's separated into episode sized chunks with weeks breaks in between

b.)There are few words in each episode, relative to the book, and so naturally each word is carefully chosen to convey an important message

c) Background is rarely put in the show unless if it becomes relevant later on - very unlike the books

d) They're working together!

[Abaddon]

One other thing I just realized (forgive me if I missed it being stated already) about how on-point they are with Bolton; the early reveal of Theon (and it's pretty obvious who is doing the torturing if you're a show viewer paying as much attention as they are) being tortured by the Bastard of Bolton is a giant red flag. Nothing so simple as "obviously Lord Bolton is a traitor" but it's another piece of the puzzle. Obviously, that wasn't a part of the books.

[iheartseverus]

We're both Snape fans, we love the Unsullied, you're an author, I'm a frustrated writer, it's a match made in heaven; if only it wasn't for 24,000km and a wedding ring.

Tell you what, next time I'm in England, and I have an evening to spare, and I'm in your part of the country we'll have a nice platonic dinner at your favourite restaurant, my treat.

:cheers:

I really, really like how they've boiled down Roose's strength(s) right now as opposed to Robb's, all wrapped up in nice, neat check marks:

Bolton has Harrenhal

Bolton has Winterfell

Bolton has Jaime

Bolton has Theon

Done and done. Someone even mentioned in passing having trouble concentrating on Bolton's words because his voice is so hypnotic/sexy. I never gave a second thought to Bolton's voice in the show, but perhaps that's one of the reasons that particular actor was chosen for the part?

[Ferrum Aeternum]

Someone even mentioned in passing having trouble concentrating on Bolton's words because his voice is so hypnotic/sexy. I never gave a second thought to Bolton's voice in the show, but perhaps that's one of the reasons that particular actor was chosen for the part?

I'd guess one of the prime requirements for the role was the ability in audition to deliver the line "Jaime Lannister send his regards" in perfectly chilling fashion. :)

[valerio]

You're quite welcome. Welcome to the board and to this thread.

HAHA... :devil:

I have to thank you vand all the other guys again :D

I've just begun reading some, and i have to say it, these guys are fantastic ! Not only they have guessed pretty much everything, but i'm also loving the ways of their reasoning; for example, a guy made a comparison between the wildlings and the Fremen of Herbert's "Dune" that is simply wondrous.

I'm serious, it's a new world for me.

[wandering]

they're still thinking of a quiet palace coup the RW will come like a sledge hammer to them

Is they are this close already then i think they'll see the RW coming a mile away tbh.

[insertname]

Is they are this close already then i think they'll see the RW coming a mile away tbh.

They might suspect something will go wrong at the wedding but I doubt they'll expect the scale of it.