[Book Spoilers] Official Theon Thread

[Rikard]

They wouldn't cast a recognizable and respected actor in a role that eventually amounts to shooting a couple of arrows and pulling a bag off someone's head only to replace that actor with someone who actually hasn't even been cast in the first place.

Huh? No, no; "Boy" is Ramsay, the torturer is the original Reek. Iwan will be around to the bitter end.

[PhoenixFlame]

Huh? No, no; "Boy" is Ramsay, the torturer is the original Reek. Iwan will be around to the bitter end.

Ya, when Stannis leaves the room so Asha/Yara can cut Ramsay's dick off and feed it to his girls.

[Rikard]

Ya, when Stannis leaves the room so Asha/Yara can cut Ramsay's dick off and feed it to his girls.

Actually I think Martin has a very special place in all seven hells for Ramsay.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

Huh? No, no; "Boy" is Ramsay, the torturer is the original Reek. Iwan will be around to the bitter end.

I know. You misread. Hence "They wouldn't."

For further clarification, I said they wouldn't cast Rheon as a non consequential character that gets killed off and then have Ramsey instead played by some other actor who is not even cast.

[Dove]

It probably goes against the entire point of Theon's arc about how "justice" isn't pain and such but yeah, I've never longed for the gruesome death of a fictional character more than Ramsay. He's an amazing villain.

I was so pumped about Jon vs. Ramsay, Snow vs. Snow and...

GRRM! :shakefist:

I would like to think that no-one actually finds the character attractive in that way, though. ... Right? He's hardly a misunderstood bad boy. Then again, people even glamorize real life serial killers, so I suppose it wouldn't surprise me if there's people out there who want a dog named after them or sexualize his treatment of Theon Greyjoy. :dunno:

Oh, my sweet summer child. What do you know of fear? Fear is for tumblr, where gifs are posted a hundred times over and Theon/Ramsay shippers come howling out of the north....

(people do, the sooner you learn to find it funny the sooner it won't annoy or disturb you :lol:)

[PhoenixFlame]

A lot of the romantic shipping on Tumblr is tongue-in-cheek; a lot of the ship isn't trying to be romantic. Some of it is weird, but since the "Thramsay" tag exploded in crossfire, a few active Tumblrs explained why they ship Theon/Ramsay. I think this one summarizes it.

Here is how shipping and liking terrible things works:

On one side, there is Canon. See, I adore Theon - I adored him from the start when most of his post-ADWD fans still hated him. That first Reek chapter was my personal RW, and I spent most of it feeling sick, heartbroken and willing the reality of it away. At every awful thing Ramsay did in the books, I thought “that is fucked up”. Lady Hornwood’s fate was horrific. When reading the books I feel all the normal responses.

Then on the other side is the fandom playground where shipping lives, where the characters most enjoyed are further enjoyed in a non-canon way. Shipping something as dark as Ramsay/Theon is a disconnect into a sort of AU space where it can be explored in ways that don’t actually have much to do with canon. It’s up to the individual’s kink. For example: I only ship Theon with Ramsay pre-Reek, in an AU space where he keeps his dick. Some people do ship ReekTheon with Ramsay, and while it’s not for me, they’re allowed to enjoy that in peace.

This doesn’t mean I condone what Ramsay did, or think it was anything other than horrible (watch my hackles raise every time someone suggests that Theon “deserved it”) - no more than people who ship Sansa with Sandor/Littlefinger/Tyrion or any adult male condone statutory rape.

Because outside canon and fandom, is the real world. And in the real world, despite what some judgemental idiots in fandom say, my morals are perfectly intact because what I enjoy IN FICTION is not what I want in life, for myself or for anyone else.

Type in "Theon Greyjoy" on Tumblr and you get some funny stuff. This made me chortle.

I was so pumped about Jon vs. Ramsay, Snow vs. Snow and...

Hmm...maybe Jon wargs into Ghost. Ramsay looks up at the battlements just as a monstrous white wolf comes snarling down. Like this.

[Tirilei]

I've seen some astute people who supposedly haven't read the book speculate that L+R=J but that the friendly archer who saved him is gonna put Theon through hell.. no one will see that coming. TV viewers are gonna be shocked.

Sure. And as a non-book-reader, I almost regret that I read up on it on this site. I too thought the torture part was over and the young guy was really helping Theon, and that the torturer he killed was this Ramsay guy people had mentioned. At first I was also a bit confused about whether the archer was even the same guy who set him free (wasn't he posing as a servant or cleaner) and gave him the horse. Those iron islands men and Theon's sister are all dressed simple and in gray, and his father despised Theon's fancy clothes, but there that archer was dressed like a young prince. And he wasted a perfectly good arrow on a guy he could have just struck down. Those were the aspects that I thought didn't fit.

[Tirilei]

And I agree about Theon's beautiful horse, just a magnificent beauty. When Theon was galloping across the fields, I had visions of Gandalf on Shadowfax, riding to Gondor.

I wonder if that was a stunt double or if Alfie Allen did the horseback riding himself.

[Spring Snow]

The use of "Winter Is Coming" in the rescue scene is sort of perfect, I had to laugh out loud. It's a major kick in the teeth if you know what's going on, and it puts you at ease if you don't.

It's also pretty funny that even after everything he's been through, Theon's response before he escapes on horseback basically boils down to, "Yeah, I'm kind of a big deal on the Iron Islands." Oh, Theon.

Was that the Dreadfort that he was being held in? I assume it wasn't the ruins of Winterfell because he would've recognized the landscape when he was free. I'm really curious about how it's going to look, because I don't remember it being described in the books and you know it has to be evocative with a family like the Boltons living there.

(people do, the sooner you learn to find it funny the sooner it won't annoy or disturb you :lol:)

A lot of the romantic shipping on Tumblr

... Oh. :frown5: Oookay, then. I can't wrap my mind around the thought process that finds Ramsay or his horrifying relationship with "Reek" appealing in that way, ironic or not, but at least someone's having fun with it? I'll leave it at that since I just started posting here and I'd rather not be a butt or get a warn already. ;)

[PhoenixFlame]

Goodness no, I'd never warn you! Erm, I wouldn't say ironic so much as joking. Granted, Tumblr is a vast ocean and has some odd fish, but the active ones aren't being "omg soooo cute!"...unless they're poking the people who flip out over other people liking Ramsay as a good villain. There's a strange brand of humor on a lot of Tumbr...

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

Goodness no, I'd never warn you! Erm, I wouldn't say ironic so much as joking. Granted, Tumblr is a vast ocean and has some odd fish, but the active ones aren't being "omg soooo cute!"...unless they're poking the people who flip out over other people liking Ramsay as a good villain. There's a strange brand of humor on a lot of Tumbr...

I was just having a look at some of the relevant tumblr then.

What has been seen cannot be unseen....

[Dove]

uh yeah like 20% of those people tops are sincerely "~joking~", people are weird. And whether it's serious or not or if you carry that outlook/don't carry it to your every day life, the idea of shipping a dynamic like that is intensely problematic and is literally glorifying and/or cutesifying rape and abuse. Gosh, I guess I just don't find it as hilarious as most. Welcome to tumblr - there's a beast in every fan, and it stirs when you put a keyboard in their hand.

[PhoenixFlame]

uh yeah like 20% of those people tops are sincerely "~joking~", people are weird. And whether it's serious or not or if you carry that outlook/don't carry it to your every day life, the idea of shipping a dynamic like that is intensely problematic and is literally glorifying and/or cutesifying rape and abuse. Gosh, I guess I just don't find it as hilarious as most. Welcome to tumblr - there's a beast in every fan, and it stirs when you put a keyboard in their hand.

Eh, a lot of the shipping I've come across is more character exploration than glorifying, not including some ridiculous cartoons. But I'm Devil's Advocating myself into oblivion, so backing out now.

"There's a beast in every fan, and it stirs when you put a keyboard in their hand." HA! Can I sig that, please?

[Dove]

uh sure if you want, I'm sure that quote's been done by a like a million people by now funnier than me

One can call it "kink shaming" or "anti-shipping" or any of those other buzzwords that fandom people throw out but I don't have any stake in any "ships" or whatever so it's kind of meaningless. I just don't think it's that close-minded to look at people salivating over Theon and Ramsay's dynamic and say "what? no gross, why are you objectifying this?" No one cares about consensual BDSM and shit like that, that's not what this is at all.

I feel like the fact that the fact that most people who don't indulge in fandom stuff (and even a lot who do) almost unanimously recoil at the idea says a lot about the acceptability of it outside of insular circle-jerky communities like tumblr. Fictional characters or not, where's the line? Whether you say that you don't carry those attitudes with you in every day life, the fact is that by making wank material and drawing cutesy little comics about a monstrously abusive relationship it goes a long way towards normalizing and minimizing it.

And yeah, I have to agree with the poster much earlier in the thread who said that this kind of thing would probably be shouted down a lot faster if it was about an abusive male/female relationship instead. Just think of it from a different perspective:

Oh don't mind me I'm a Ramsay/Jeyne Poole shipper, just writin some fic and drawin a comic about her getting assaulted and beaten to a pulp and then begging for more~ didn't she look so hot in that one scene with her dress all ripped up? What? lol chill you guyz it's just some in-depth character exploration, i'm only a little turned on I SWEAR

Edit: actually this is a really dumb derail so yeah I'm done too, sorry y'all. Obviously I'm not gonna be able to comprehend the why and how of it so I'm just running a perfectly good thread into the ground, if anyone wants to debate it or whatever feel free to just message me instead

[Cas Stark]

I still think Ramsey is much too handsome and now they've added in a badass archer dynamic that also wasn't in the books, his father even says he's not a good fighter, not talented at any weapon, no skill, all he does is charge in with no fear. So, I don't know why they give Ramsey now two attractive characteristics that he does not have in the books.

[aFeastForDragons]

I find it hilarious that when Iwan first stared in Misfits Season 1 everyone thought he was really ugly and an absolute nerd/freak. 2 seasons later and *insert some spoilers* he's suddenly a hunk and everyones favourite character.

He's just doing it in reverse now. If anyones watched Iwan's acting in Misfits you can be assured he will make a great Ramsey.

I like how they make some characters better fighters. Stannis's involvement in the Battle of Blackwater was made way better with Stannis scaling the walls and slaughtering men left and right.

[BananaSpice]

I hate the term "shipping" to be honest, b/c that implies to me that you want to characters to be together in the actual story rather than just in your kinky head fantasy.

Also, I do personally find all the hate against "Thramsay" to be kink-shaming. If you aren't into it, you just don't get it. Non-con/rape/abuse in a FICTIONAL setting is obviously a big kink for many people. There's really no harm in it. Of COURSE people don't want that in real life. That's why it's a fantasy and not real.

[I'll pay the iron price]

Was that the Dreadfort that he was being held in? I assume it wasn't the ruins of Winterfell because he would've recognized the landscape when he was free. I'm really curious about how it's going to look, because I don't remember it being described in the books and you know it has to be evocative with a family like the Boltons living there.

Well if it is the Dreadfort, and "Boy" told Theon to ride east then there is really only Karhold to the east of the dreadfort.

What if it was Hornwood land?

The Dreadfort is to the east then.

Just a thought

[I'll pay the iron price]

I hate the term "shipping" to be honest, b/c that implies to me that you want to characters to be together in the actual story rather than just in your kinky head fantasy.

Also, I do personally find all the hate against "Thramsay" to be kink-shaming. If you aren't into it, you just don't get it. Non-con/rape/abuse in a FICTIONAL setting is obviously a big kink for many people. There's really no harm in it. Of COURSE people don't want that in real life. That's why it's a fantasy and not real.

I agree with Jenthehen

Some people are way over-reacting and are forgetting that GoT is a fictional fantasy story

[Dove]

Fair enough, I just feel quite strongly that some things really, truly shouldn't be fetishized, glorified, or made light of, and brutal, violent abuse and debasement is one of them, even if it's in a fictional context. But unfortunately they will, because this is the internet, and there's nothing anyone can do about it - and this isn't the place for a debate on harmful and problematic attitudes involving rape online anyway.