Boston bombing manhunt: how far is too far?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Per DG's request:

I think shuting down the city of Boston to find one guy is a bit over the top.

Discuss.

[Jaxtile]

Yeah, but think of the jobs being created in cable news graphic designers.

[DanteGabriel]

You have a suspect known to be armed with guns and explosives, who has gone to ground in a densely populated section of the city.

How the suffering fuck are you going to find him and ensure public safety, Scot?

[Fez]

I don't. This isn't a "what if" or "potential threat" situation, this is an immediate danger to the public safety and needs to be dealt with as quickly and safely as possible. If that means shutting down the city (although apparently the Dunkin Donuts are open), so be it. If that means, house-to-house searches, so be it.

And if you don't consent, I'm sure there isn't a judge in the city who wouldn't grant an immediate warrant to the police.

[Switchback]

I don't know, as an American, who cares about my fellow Americans, if a bomb-making nutjob who's been suspected of already killing multiple people was last seen in my neighborhood and remains at large, I'd allow the cops to check out my place to verify he's not there, so they can cross it off their list and move on.

But again, I care about other people. I understand there's a growing number of my fellow Americans who don't.

[Tempra]

I think this is the exact situation where certain civil liberties should be relaxed. Scot, this is NOT the situation the founders sought to prevent governmental abuse when the 4th Amendment was enacted.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

What about the DC Sniper situation. Should we have shut down DC during that "potential threat" situation?

[Switchback]

In this particular case, what is your beef? Because it comes across that you're more worried about the cops looking through your underwear drawer and maybe finding your dimebag, than you are about helping in any way possible to locate a person suspected of killing your fellow Bostonians.

Do you only operate in absolutes? This is the problem with literal interpreters of the Constitution, and is becoming a big problem in this country.

[Fez]

What about the DC Sniper situation. Should we have shut down DC during that "potential threat" situation?

That was different. That was an active (albeit large) investigation, the same as in any sort of criminal case. This is a massive manhunt for a known individual.

If you're concerned about civil liberties, you should be more concerned about the recent tweets Senator Lindsay Graham has sent out:

If captured, I hope Administration will at least consider holding the Boston suspect as enemy combatant for intelligence gathering purposes.

The last thing we may want to do is read Boston suspect Miranda Rights telling him to "remain silent."

Now that's the kind of troubling thing that would set a bad precedent.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Fez,

You say that like I've ever voted for Graham.

Switchback,

If the 4th doesn't apply in a manhunt for one man where there is no evidence person X has anything to do with the bombing what purpose does it serve?

[awesome possum]

Compared to how the LAPD handled that cop-killer a while back, I think Boston is doing a super job so far in that they haven't shot any old ladies

[Free Northman]

I agree with Ser Scott.

If one guy can shut down a city, can 50 guys shut down the entire country?

[DanteGabriel]

I agree with Ser Scott.

If one guy can shut down a city, can 50 guys shut down the entire country?

So how would you propose the authorities find him and protect public safety?

[Datepalm]

I actually discussed this today with a mixed group of Israelis and Americans today, and it really seemed like a mad overreaction. We took a trip down memory lane back to the merry a-bombing-every-day days of the early 2000s, and none of us could ever remember this kind of reaction, for anything. The one time I recall anything even coming close was when I was in the 8th grade and we were told not to leave school for like an hour in the afternoon because they had picked up an explosive belt in an ambulance at the town checkpoint and there was an alert of a sniper in the town itself (total population about 30k) and there had already been five other bombings around the country that day.

This is going to sound horrible, but when we first heard about the Marathon bombings, we immediately started scanning for casualty number, turned up 3, and kind of...well...I mean, 10 years ago here a bombing with only 3 dead wouldn't have interrupted a sitcom. You needed double digits for that after a while. Actually, maybe overreaction is the natural reaction. Don't get to where we are, it's not like it's a good thing. Dunno.

[Switchback]

Switchback,

If the 4th doesn't apply in a manhunt for one man where there is no evidence person X has anything to do with the bombing what purpose does it serve?

Here's my point:

Ongoing manhunt in a neighborhood where a suspect accused of blowing up a bunch of people, killing a cop, and willing and able to kill more of your neighbors is still on the loose. Cops want to rule out all homes in neighborhood as being a place the suspect is hiding. They come a knockin'.

Rational person - Yes, by all means rule my home out so you can move onto the next as quickly as possible. Is there anything else I can do to help?

Loon draped in the Constitution - Fuck off Po-Leese, I know my rights!

If you want to associate yourself with that second crowd, by all means. Lord knows you won't be alone. I'm just sad that crowd seems to be growing. Wish we were still on the whole a neighborly folk looking out for each other, instead of just looking out for ourselves.

[alguien]

I know some peoples' Freedom Senses are collectively tingling, but I agree with the poster in the primary Boston thread who labeld this a sui generis type of situation.

Storm troopers aren't rounding up undesirables for cleansing and Judge Dredd hasn't kicked down any doors, and the thought of Bostoners standing for that type of treatment makes me laugh my ass off.

If police requested to search my house looking for the bomber, I'd consider it a civic duty to let them come in and do a search. Maybe the perp broke in through a basement window and his hiding behind the furnace without my knowledge--how the hell should I know? Why leave one unchecked space on their radar? I don't have anything to hide and would sure as hell report any misconduct on their behalf.

[The Progressive]

I think that Boston has been rather restrained in their search so far, and this libertarian-induced whining is laughable and naive, but I guess to some people the Constitution is more important than common sense.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Triskele,

Cordoning off a neighborhood for a short time to look for a suspect? I can see that as reasonable for a limited period of time. Shutting down an entire metro area to search for one guy, that's several orders of magnitute different.

[Tears of Lys]

We really don't know what the hell the situation is at this point. Is it just a 19-year-old kid (albeit, a murderous one) on the lam, or are there others who assisted him? Has he got other devices planted at other locations?

There's a lot of unanswered questions that are making this manhunt a lot more urgent than "just" the three people killed and who knows how many with blown off legs.

As for Ser Scott telling the cops "there's no one here but us" in the house - how the heck do the cops know that your wife isn't being held at knife point just out of sight? And STILL the cops aren't going into each house.

I don't see the problem, honestly.

[DanteGabriel]

If you want to associate yourself with that second crowd, by all means. Lord knows you won't be alone. I'm just sad that crowd seems to be growing. Wish we were still on the whole a neighborly folk looking out for each other, instead of just looking out for ourselves.

There's too many of us that think only about rights, and not about responsibilities.