The Night's Prince Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Brienne isn't ugly enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiola Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 This scene was so perfect. It's everything I love about Jaime and then some, because Nikolaj is such an artist. Was he crying, or just tearing up? I couldn't tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybuilderton Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 When he said he came back because he dreamed of her, I thought he meant it as in "I dreamed of you and so that means I care about you" or something. Like the fact that she was in his dream helped him admit to himself that he's not a nihilist, apathetic jerkass like he's been pretending to be since killing Aerys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MsLibby Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 i wonderd that too, or if it was the steam getting to him.The whole thing was masterful.Another powerful scene was Bolton playing with him about Cersei's status. The mud and water running down his nose but his eyes never left Roose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetyrPunkinhead Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Someone give Nikolaj an Emmy, please. That scene was brilliant!Word. This was the chapter in the book where Jaime really started to change from the villain who pushed Bran out of that window in to a three dimensional character, one I actually started to like.Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but in the show Jaime said Ned found him slitting Aerys' throat, but in the book Ned found Jaime sitting on the Iron Throne, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhawk137 Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Utterly superb acting from Nikolai.I was hoping they'd show how Jaime became "the Kingslayer" through flashbacks, but I guess that's too "Hollywood" for this series. The way they did it was much classier. I know "show don't tell" is considered one of the golden rules in filmmaking but when you've got an actor who can carry the scene like Nikolai then you can rely on dialogue alone.Sure, but therein lies the question - what are you trying to show? Sure, the scene is Jaime talking about events that happened many years ago, but when it comes down to it, the scene is about who Jaime is now, and not who Aerys was then. In a way, the story is more important in its telling than in its actuality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixFlame Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Sure, but therein lies the question - what are you trying to show? Sure, the scene is Jaime talking about events that happened many years ago, but when it comes down to it, the scene is about who Jaime is now, and not who Aerys was then. In a way, the story is more important in its telling than in its actuality.Agreed. It's easier to "tell" in filmmaking because you're always "showing" something. Using lots of flashbacks is often cheap and bogs down the story. In a series about, say, vampires, then it can be effective because they've lived through so much, but usually it's lazy writing. In this case, seeing Jaime's reactions as he tells his story says everything we need to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiola Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 I don't think I can fangirl enough over Jaime. It's so refreshing to come on here and see people who appreciate him. My irl friends all think he's scum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katydid Posted April 30, 2013 Author Share Posted April 30, 2013 I disagree. The whole point of that shot was for us to see Jaime's reaction to her. We, as the audience, are meant to conclude that Brienne is attractive because Jaime was obviously taken by her physicality. Jaime's attraction to Brienne at that moment was purely physical, but it was also influenced by his respect, admiration and trust in her. It's also influenced by his vulnerability at that moment.Brienne is not an unequivocal beauty, she's not supposed to be. She's not Cersie, or Marg, or Sansa. Had Jaime seen her naked back in S1, she wouldn't have had any effect on him. At this moment he is pre-desposed emotionally to finding her beautiful, because he already admires her in so many other ways. If they had shown us what he was seeing our opinions of her would have substituted his, and that lust for beauty we saw in his eyes would have been diminished by whatever our eyes perceived.We were meant to see Brienne through Jaime's eyes in that scene, not our own. We were meant to find her attractive because he does. We were meant to feel for her what he feels. With the glimpse of her beautiful muscular ass and his lusty face, we were meant to lust for her as well. When it comes to Brienne's beauty, how Jaime sees her is all that really matters.Wow. Well, well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkAndFullOfTurnips Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 I don't think I can fangirl enough over Jaime. It's so refreshing to come on here and see people who appreciate him. My irl friends all think he's scum.They're missing the best part of the novels, then (IMO). Teach them, Vis! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will&Chrismom Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 I disagree GC is too pretty to play Brienne.We only see Brienne through others' eyes in the books, and everyone looks at her as sees an ugly woman. Brienne internalizes it enough--it's all she's heard her whole life--that her own view of her looks is likely at least a little distorted. GRRM harps on her looks, but the harping, to me, is simply him illustrating the prejudices of those who interact with her. Jaime and Catelyn have different reasons for only seeing homeliness: Jaime's entire worldview of women is warped by Cersei and their relationship--no other woman could possibly measure up. Catelyn's view is that of a mother with two very different daughters, one who is beautiful and desirable and the other who is a homely tomboy. Both of them could very well have an exaggerated view of Brienne's appearance. And when Brienne herself becomes a POV character she despairs of being ugly, but how much of it is a result of her internalizing years and years of cruel japes at her looks and her ungainliness when trying to act like the highborn lady she is?In the books, Jaime is aroused by her in the bath but quickly decides it's only b/c he's not been with Cersei in so long and, well, any port in a storm. But he later dreams of Brienne and sees her with "more of a woman's shape"; he is beginning to see beauty where before, none existed (although he has noted her eyes, which are striking and pretty). The bath scene in the show is simply condensing Jaime's realization that yes, indeed, Brienne is a woman as well as a human being (Jaime pretty much acknowledged Brienne's humanity when he rescued her from being raped by Locke's men). It works beautifully, and I think GC's body, what we see of it, is the Brienne Jaime would see in the books, in his dream: strong, fierce and powerful, but still a woman (and indeed, GC is blessed with an amazing, curvy bum). She will not be mocked, and by leaping out of the tub in the altogether she's daring him to do or say something stupid, and once again, just as in last week's ep when he starts to eat, he is shocked/shamed out of being an asshole, and realizes he can trust this woman in a way he can trust nobody else, man or woman.I loved the whole scene and watched it several times today on demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiola Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 They're missing the best part of the novels, then (IMO). Teach them, Vis!I try so hard... I got through to them about Theon, but for some reason they won't budge on Jaime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katydid Posted April 30, 2013 Author Share Posted April 30, 2013 I imagine that the show will avoid Jaime's dream sequence and have him make the decision to go back for Brienne while conscious. I find a conscious decision more compelling than a decision inspired by a dream. It was a cool dream sequence in the book, but I think the show is right to strip away much of the mysticism.If GRRM did pen the "Bear & the Maiden Fair" episode (which I think he did), then that makes me more hopeful for Jaime's dream, even if it's a bit truncated from the entire book!dream. If he does leave Harrenhal (and I believe we've seen a shot of him on horseback, riding out with Qyburn, in several of the promos), then he'll need a catalyst to go back for her. Book!Jaime is anxious to make tracks, get back to Kings Landing, Cersei, and everyone he loves; the dream is huge, making him turn around & make double-tracks to get back to Brienne.I'm keeping my fingers and toes crossed for the dream! B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MsLibby Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 btw....kudos to the makeup people for Jaime's deplorable condition. Half God,half corpse indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkAndFullOfTurnips Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 I try so hard... I got through to them about Theon, but for some reason they won't budge on Jaime.Well because Theon only murdered two children instead of attempting to murder one. Oh wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiola Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Well because Theon only murdered two children instead of attempting to murder one. Oh wait...RIGHT. They're like "Well Jaime was just an asshole the whole time and I don't like his personality" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giant snake Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Good comments all around. How well this scene was done makes me wonder how the pointless and, I would think out of character, scene with Loras and the random dude was. Unless, that is, they don't want us to think Loras cared about anything at all. If they decide to try and have Jaime later declare that Loras is 'a younger version of himself,' then it's not going to make sense. Jaime was always deeply troubled, and it took losing his hand and being brought low to realize it. Loras, in the show, never cares about anything at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Currawong Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Agreed. It's easier to "tell" in filmmaking because you're always "showing" something. Using lots of flashbacks is often cheap and bogs down the story. In a series about, say, vampires, then it can be effective because they've lived through so much, but usually it's lazy writing. In this case, seeing Jaime's reactions as he tells his story says everything we need to know.It's not just watching Jaime himself tell it, with all his emotions - it was also critical to see Brienne's reactions (also brilliant acting from GC!) as he told it. It would not have worked at all in a flashback sequence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickren Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 If GRRM did pen the "Bear & the Maiden Fair" episode (which I think he did), then that makes me more hopeful for Jaime's dream, even if it's a bit truncated from the entire book!dream. If he does leave Harrenhal (and I believe we've seen a shot of him on horseback, riding out with Qyburn, in several of the promos), then he'll need a catalyst to go back for her. Book!Jaime is anxious to make tracks, get back to Kings Landing, Cersei, and everyone he loves; the dream is huge, making him turn around & make double-tracks to get back to Brienne.I'm keeping my fingers and toes crossed for the dream! B)As important as the dream is to Jaime's motivation for returning in the books, it's hard to imagine it being anything but a hokey on the tv screen, if portrayed as written.I suspect it will be Qyburn's comment about "examining" Brienne that will be show!Jaime's catalyst to return. Even in the book, it feels like part of the reason he goes back and probably influences the dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Godric Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Brienne isn't ugly enough.Jaime's wandering eyes agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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