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Dove

[BOOK SPOILERS] “If you think this has a happy ending, you haven’t been paying attention.”

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I posted in another thread (several actually along the way) that I advocated Cillian Murphy being cast as Ramsey.

I'm happy to admit that I was wrong. Iwan Rheon is awesome. Period. He is Ramsey through and through.

What a treacherous, deceptive, sadistic, crazy bastard. Love it. Perfect

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Alfie Allen deserved an emmy for Season 2 and absolutely cannot be replaced.

Just watch some bad acting, for example, something on the CW and then come back and compare it to the acting on GoT.

Now, if you were making a case for replacing Kit Harrington...

Yeah, compared to most TV, the acting on GoT is in another league.

I don't get the hate for Kit Harrington on this board. He acts just like Jon Snow should act in my opinion. It takes time in the books for Jon to mature. I'm eager to see his return to castle black and how his nature begins to change from naive and conflicted boy to an authority figure

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I posted in another thread (several actually along the way) that I advocated Cillian Murphy being cast as Ramsey.

I'm happy to admit that I was wrong. Iwan Rheon is awesome. Period. He is Ramsey through and through.

What a treacherous, deceptive, sadistic, crazy bastard. Love it. Perfect

Iwan Rheon's Ramsay is perfect- but still waiting to see him in a blunt-force rage after this playful sadism.

Probably off topic, but who here thinks the Ramsay- "Arya" wedding will use the real Arya on the show? I think it depends on how long Ramsay survives into TWoW- if he dies early I could see showrunners changing it to having Arya kill him on their wedding night.

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Yeah, compared to most TV, the acting on GoT is in another league.

I don't get the hate for Kit Harrington on this board. He acts just like Jon Snow should act in my opinion. It takes time in the books for Jon to mature. I'm eager to see his return to castle black and how his nature begins to change from naive and conflicted boy to an authority figure

Honestly, I don't hate Kit, I kind of like him despite his not being a really great actor. He's fine for now (and very good-looking). I just worry about him being believable as Lord Commander later on.

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What a reasonable standpoint.

I`ve read the books multiple times and have only been really watching the show casually this season. I didn`t even notice the Bolton banners. It`s very easy to miss out on these details and to call people who don`t see it idiots (read: they have a low IQ) is just absurd.

Oh I certainly was not referring to anyone having a low IQ because they didn't pick up on that! I didn't even make the connection til' I rewatched (and I am a seasoned reader, and miss plenty of details I would probably notice if I HADN'T read the books.) I was just stating that if I had not read the books, and I was watching week-by-week unknowing to what happens next I'd be going nuts trying to find clues about what the mysteries are (as I did when I watched LOST) and would have saw the flayed man banner and remembered the bastard of Boltons mentioning and contemplated the position and happening of Theon to conclude that it must be Ramsey. Sorry if people misunderstood, I wasn't belittling any fans knowledge as we all know you must be fairly smart to follow the dialogue on a show/book like this.

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Looking forward to them revealing his stupid name so I don't have to keep typing "Boy" in non-spoiler threads and remembering to call him Barry to friends. It's not like his first name is a big deal or anything, kind of funny that they've been so hush-hush about it.

Iwan Rheon's Ramsay is perfect- but still waiting to see him in a blunt-force rage after this playful sadism.

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see if they keep his temper. I like the idea that's been suggested of us seeing him snap for the first time because someone calls him a bastard or Snow.

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Yeah, compared to most TV, the acting on GoT is in another league.

I don't get the hate for Kit Harrington on this board. He acts just like Jon Snow should act in my opinion. It takes time in the books for Jon to mature. I'm eager to see his return to castle black and how his nature begins to change from naive and conflicted boy to an authority figure

Agreed. Jon Snow is naive and withdrawn up until ADWD time. Kind of reminds me of Mark Wahlberg in Boogie Nights.

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Agreed. Jon Snow is naive and withdrawn up until ADWD time. Kind of reminds me of Mark Wahlberg in Boogie Nights.

Haha great comparison.

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Iwan Rheon's Ramsay is perfect- but still waiting to see him in a blunt-force rage after this playful sadism.

Probably off topic, but who here thinks the Ramsay- "Arya" wedding will use the real Arya on the show? I think it depends on how long Ramsay survives into TWoW- if he dies early I could see showrunners changing it to having Arya kill him on their wedding night.

That is a good idea because as much as I like the character Arya, her wandering in the books starts to get a bit boring.

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Iwan Rheon's Ramsay is perfect- but still waiting to see him in a blunt-force rage after this playful sadism.

I think we got a glimpse of it when he feigned offense at the whole Karstark situation.

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I blame the writing more than the acting for Kit/Jon. Usually his role in the scene is to stand there like a lamp post while interesting people talk to him. They've severely mistreated his character but w/e. When he's LC he'll actually get some dialogue and some emotions. It'll be fine.

Also I'm not sure he's supposed to be "believable" as LC. It should look strange, right? Not that he was a bad LC (I think he was brilliant at it), but it definitely always felt weird to me.

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I think we got a glimpse of it when he feigned offense at the whole Karstark situation.

Hah yeah I caught that too. He looked like he was getting there. As soon as his true identity is revealed, someone is bound to call him bastard or Snow. I anticipate a belligerent shit-storm of violence and cruelty. Unfortunately, it will probably be Theon that says it. Poor Theon. That guys in for a real bad time it seems.

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Probably off topic, but who here thinks the Ramsay- "Arya" wedding will use the real Arya on the show? I think it depends on how long Ramsay survives into TWoW- if he dies early I could see showrunners changing it to having Arya kill him on their wedding night.

Having Arya kill Ramsay on his Wedding Night diminishes Theon's entire story, as it his encounters then that leads him to remembering his name and then having his "Big Damn Heroes" moment. Seriously, cutting Theon's rescue and flight with Jeyne would be like cutting Jaime's jumping in the Bear Pit as both of those scenes is when these characters begin their return to the light.

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Oh I certainly was not referring to anyone having a low IQ because they didn't pick up on that! I didn't even make the connection til' I rewatched (and I am a seasoned reader, and miss plenty of details I would probably notice if I HADN'T read the books.) I was just stating that if I had not read the books, and I was watching week-by-week unknowing to what happens next I'd be going nuts trying to find clues about what the mysteries are (as I did when I watched LOST) and would have saw the flayed man banner and remembered the bastard of Boltons mentioning and contemplated the position and happening of Theon to conclude that it must be Ramsey. Sorry if people misunderstood, I wasn't belittling any fans knowledge as we all know you must be fairly smart to follow the dialogue on a show/book like this.

Ah, apologies! I complete misread what you meant.

Yeah, I was the same with Lost although by the time season 6 rolled around I was just fed up with it really, but I digress.

There was an article posted somewhere (possibly this thread) that was written by a guy who`s only watching the show, hasn`t read the books and has no intention to until the series is over. He`s already figured out the whole Bolton-Boy-Theon scenario so I think the show is doing a grand job.

I find it funny how people complain when it spells out something clearly and those same people then complain when it leaves something somewhat ambiguous - but the clues are scattered across the show. What do you want people?

Then again, these boards are mostly populated by people who will never be able to enjoy the series, it seems. Pity, they`re missing out on a fun ride.

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My favorite GOT podcast (A Cast of Kings) has a book reader and non-book reader as hosts. The non-book reader hasn't put together who Ramsay is. It's getting hilarious in the comments (which are moderated for spoilers). Like "It's BLOWING right in your face!!" I think most of the book readers just want his reaction when he figures it out and realizes all the clues that were there.

Personally, Theon's scenes are some of my favorite this season. I luuuurve Iwan Rheon as Ramsay. He's a little more playful than in the books, but it works. I think he'd come across as too flat if all he did was flay people and throw hissy fits--it works in the book, but onscreen it's different. There's so many neat touches he adds. Like, when Theon thinks he's a Karstark. Suddenly he looks pissed ("strangled by the Kingslayer!"). It's Ramsay improvising on the spot and pretending to be a Karstark...it gave me a chuckle. Oh, and his peevish "hearing rap music in the background" expressions :laugh:

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Having Arya kill Ramsay on his Wedding Night diminishes Theon's entire story, as it his encounters then that leads him to remembering his name and then having his "Big Damn Heroes" moment. Seriously, cutting Theon's rescue and flight with Jeyne would be like cutting Jaime's jumping in the Bear Pit as both of those scenes is when these characters begin their return to the light.

Yeah, that was by far my favorite part of ADWD. I don't care if they have Ramsay die by tripping over a turtle and snapping his neck while a silly trumpet plays, as long as it happens after Theon's big moment. It's a huge deal for someone as abused and broken as he was to reclaim his identity, defy his abuser, and even decieve the rescuers (they thought she was legit Arya, right?) to save Jeyne, and it's awesome.

With the way they often cut or combine minor characters, that could mean eliminating the spearwives entirely in the TV show - it would be interesting to see if they have Theon decide to rescue Jeyne pretty much by himself. It could maybe even make that part even better.

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Having Arya kill Ramsay on his Wedding Night diminishes Theon's entire story, as it his encounters then that leads him to remembering his name and then having his "Big Damn Heroes" moment. Seriously, cutting Theon's rescue and flight with Jeyne would be like cutting Jaime's jumping in the Bear Pit as both of those scenes is when these characters begin their return to the light.

It certainly would diminish Theon's moment. Also, while we would care more about Arya's plight than Jeyne Poole's (who doesn't exist on the show) after watching her go through FM training, the audience would be less fearful for her, and more anticipating Ramsay (& Roose's?) demise. But just because it's not as good as the books doesn't mean it won't happen...

Though come to think of it, LF's ship has left for the Vale without Sansa...maybe she'll be Ramsay's bride after her husband Tyrion is assumed dead. Showrunners may decide that the saga of Alaine and Sweetrobin is something that can be cut from seasons 5/6...

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It certainly would diminish Theon's moment. Also, while we would care more about Arya's plight than Jeyne Poole's (who doesn't exist on the show) after watching her go through FM training, the audience would be less fearful for her, and more anticipating Ramsay (& Roose's?) demise. But just because it's not as good as the books doesn't mean it won't happen...

Though come to think of it, LF's ship has left for the Vale without Sansa...maybe she'll be Ramsay's bride after her husband Tyrion is assumed dead. Showrunners may decide that the saga of Alaine and Sweetrobin is something that can be cut from seasons 5/6...

Jeyne Poole was in the show, but she may not have been named, can't remember.

I think the idea of Arya, Sansa or "Talisa" as Ramsey's wife is pure crackpottery. It will be Jeyne Poole/or otherwise no name girl from the North who they're calling Arya, nothing else makes sense from the standpoint of what happens in the books.

Although they will ultimately have to figure out, assuming the show lasts that long, how to deal with Mel's false vision of Arya since she has met the real Arya now in the show.

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The blind spot for us is we don't know "what makes sense from the standpoint of what happens in the books" because we don't know what happens in the books after ADwD. If Alayne & Harry the Heir fizzles and ultimately leads to nothing, it might get cut ((like Quentyn Martell (oh noos, we'll have to get the pissboy to free the dragons!)) If Arya is headed right to Westeros at the beginning of TWoW, they might bring her back early.

Bottom line I think show divergences from the book are going to get larger and larger, and Melisandre saying she will meet Arya again means she will meet Arya again and there will be no false Arya.

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