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Dove

[BOOK SPOILERS] “If you think this has a happy ending, you haven’t been paying attention.”

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Prediction:

When Theon correctly identifies Ramsay for who he is Theon will call him "The Bastard of Bolton". This will then send Ramsay into a monstrous rage and he'll commit extreme violence upon him, maybe even the "debated incident".

I don't think this will happen until the end of the season because the audience needs to be caught off guard in regards to the depths of House Bolton's treachery during the Red Wedding. I think the bastard reveal will happen during the same episode as the RW.

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Prediction:

When Theon correctly identifies Ramsay for who he is Theon will call him "The Bastard of Bolton". This will then send Ramsay into a monstrous rage and he'll commit extreme violence upon him, maybe even the "debated incident".

Dude, I like that. Because at the moment Ramsay's having the time of his life, totally in control. It will be interesting to see he has an actual berserk button (and make audiences realize why he shot the "bastard" goon point-blank.).

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Theon is set to appear in only two more episodes and it looks like from the preview of episode 7 that he will appear in Episode 7. So what I'm wondering is which of the remaining 3 episodes is it? 8, 9 or 10?

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Seeing these scenes week after week is so emotionally stressful. :frown5: Oh Theon... :bawl: (i just love Theon 'kay)

Otoh, Iwan is a pretty good Ramsay. He gives off the mind-player aspect of the character well enough. I like his crazy eye effect too. :smoking:

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I'm confused by how they've handled this: it's the same thing with the burning of Winterfell. I'm still not sure if that's even supposed to be a mystery in the show, or if we're supposed to assume Theon's men did it, or if we're not supposed to care, or what. It wouldn't have been that hard to have Bran ask "Who did this?" when they emerged from the crypts, or for Theon to ask "Who ARE you?" Usually with the TV show I at least know what they're trying to do, even if I don't think they really pull it off (Qhorin setting up Jon to infiltrate the Wildling camp), but with the bits around Ramsay, I'm not sure what they're attempting.

A Kyra escape attempt would likely seem too much repetition, but maybe they'll include that anyway.

I presume they are trying to recover the suprise and confusion of the Reek = Ramsay reveal from the novels that they skipped over, and drive it into us that this guy is a masterful deciever.

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Good call on the horn to those who remembered—I completely forgot. Perhaps that was foreshadowing when Theon said he'd kill whoever was blowing it.

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This Theon stuff has been terrible. Week after week of screaming. Just take him out for two seasons. Jesus.

Completely disagree, I look forward to it every episode. Alfie Allen is awesome as usual and Iwan Rheon is just getting warmed up with crazy Ramsay, I'm digging it

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Theon did ask 'where am i? who are you?' in his first scene this season. I think it's meant to be a mystery what's going on with Theon, along with what exactly happened at Winterfell.

Part of this seems to be because of the exclusion of the Ramsay/Reek storyline in Season 2. In Clash, Ramsay was established as a character with different aims from his father, and an outlaw in the North, so him burning down Winterfell did not immediatly put suspicion on Roose Bolton. Here though, Roose vouches for his Bastard and Ramsay is given Robb's blessing in taking back Winterfell, so if they revealed him burning Winterfell it would make Roose a suspect. I think they could have executed the sack of Winterfell better, but I see why they did it.

If you listen carefully you can already see some suspicion on Ramsay, since in episode 2 Roose reports that when Ramsay got to Winterfell the Ironborn were gone and had burned the place down, but we know from Season 2 that Ramsay's forces laid siege to Winterfell, and it was burnt after the Ironborn decided to betray Theon and go home.

The TV show has given viewers a lot of hints - some nicely hidden and others pretty blatant - that the Boltons are up to no good... but I think for a while, TV-only people just saw Roose as "some random general of Robb's that probably isn't saying or doing anything all that important."

If you put 2 and 2 together, I think it could've been figured that the Bolton Bastard burned Winterfell -- before season 3 even started. I definitely saw non-book readers that didn't quite understand what happened... or thought it didn't make sense... but then the whole event was just kind of forgotten, as more pressing plotlines developed.

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i have a teeny minor complain about ramsay. iwan has The most mesmerizing eyes, that can't be seen properly because he is always in the dark. that takes away some of his psychotic character

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I loved every second of the Ramsay scene tonight. Easily the highlight of a rather slow episode. I can also see them revealing Ramsay at the same episode of the RW(as mentioned). Makes sense for tv.

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I think they should have put this story on hold, it's not working. I'm sure Alfie Allen would have come back in future seasons, he's read the books and knows the deal.

How can you be sure of that? Alfie has shown himself to be a brilliant actor, they needed to get him locked down to a contract. And besides, I think his scenes have been fine. And they'll need a ready established villain after Joffrey dies.

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Think about it. Stannis has at least two seasons of material left to be in a position to get Theon in a different place. Three whole seasons of torture? At best it will fall flat, at worst it will be very disturbing, off-putting, and gratuitous. Don't get me wrong, Reek's chapters were the best in Dance in my eyes. But I don't think it necessarily translates well on screen, and having more of it is not the answer.

I really think Alfie Allen would come back, and I don't think they need to force material just to keep him around. It's like cutting off your pinky to spite your thumb, to make a terrible analogy.

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Is it wrong that I laughed at the horn-blowing at the start of this scene? More evidence that TV!Ramsay > Book!Ramsay.

Otherwise, yeah, brutal scene. This plot line is progressing at about the rate I expected - which is probably too fast considering how early it was brought in. I have a feeling that they're going to leave out much of his transformation into Reek. :stillsick:

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I think they'll reveal that the boy is in fact Bolton's bastard, to coincide with the greater significance of Roose Bolton (since this will be the first 'big scene' he's had). However, I think the reveal of who burned Winterfell will be saved for a later episode.

When "Boy" told Theon that he was not Torrhen Karstark's brother, the camera zoomed out from their faces and showed the cross on which Theon is hanging very prominently. That serves no story telling purpose other than to draw the viewer's attention in a not very subtle way to the similarity between the torturing cross and the Bolton sigils / flags that were already featured so prominently in several episodes of this season.

So I wouldn't expect the "reveal" to be much of a plot twist at all any more, at this point.

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I have a feeling that they're going to leave out much of his transformation into Reek. :stillsick:

And that would be just as well. Book!Reek is only such a morbidly interesting character because the novels let you read his internal monologue. That is not going to work for the TV show. You can't just have TV!Reek constantly mutter to himself like some deranged Gollum. TV!Reek will have to be a different kind of character and his weirdness will have to be something that translates well to the screen.

For example TV!Reek could be more of a Wormtongue type guy who looks sickly, has a hunched / bent over posture and follows Ramsay around everywhere. The positive aspects of his character then have to be revealed through dialogue with sympathetic characters like "Arya" or other hostages.

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I'm confused by how they've handled this: it's the same thing with the burning of Winterfell. I'm still not sure if that's even supposed to be a mystery in the show, or if we're supposed to assume Theon's men did it, or if we're not supposed to care, or what. It wouldn't have been that hard to have Bran ask "Who did this?" when they emerged from the crypts, or for Theon to ask "Who ARE you?" Usually with the TV show I at least know what they're trying to do, even if I don't think they really pull it off (Qhorin setting up Jon to infiltrate the Wildling camp), but with the bits around Ramsay, I'm not sure what they're attempting.

A Kyra escape attempt would likely seem too much repetition, but maybe they'll include that anyway.

i think they're making an attempt at suspense and this will make the non reader audience more invested in what's going on instead of just revealing everything -- I'm just guessing since i've read the books so nothing on the show is really a mystery plot and character wise so...

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Awesome scene. And absolutely necessary for Theon`s and Ramsay`s proper development on-screen.

As for those who are saying it`ll be 3 seasons of torture, don`t be daft. RW is this season. So we`ll have Moat Cailin at some point next season possibly with some more made up scenes establishing the Boltons some more. And most likely all that Winterfell nonsense in Season 5.

At the most, we will have 1.5 seasons of torture. We`ll be getting to the Theon at the start of ADwD by late-season 4 at the very latest.

Alfie and Iwan are also incredible so I`ve no problem with getting more screen time with them. No matter how much that flaying scene made me squirm.

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