Jon Snow the 3headed dragon and mythology.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I strongly believe , that Jon is son of Rhaegar and Lyanna ( according to famous theory with all hints and etc.), though i think that it would be kinda too much for Jon , to embodie all prophesies , just IMO. I think that the ,, Last Hero '' is Bran .

My point is that they are not different prophecies it's one character. One hero and different cultures have gave him different names and characteristics.

Last Hero was my mistake I took it out, after all he is not a Messianic figure.

[the conquoring bastard25]

people are getting to hung up on whether Jon being the messiah of all a cliché and that Grrm sets the reader up only to smash sterotypes.

Yet I would like to point out if that's the case then why even write it that way in the first place. IT's true that Grrm goes a different route when writing but that doesn't mean that he's not writing a classic fantasy story, only he's showing different qualities that rulers have had from real world histories to write this fantasy. He's showing what works and what doesn't work to be a strong leader. That even when you have something that could give you superior military might that sometimes the easy way(burning westeros) to get what you want isn't the best way.

with that being said I've always felt like the OP. That out of all the main characters there's something special about jon. Even more so than Dany.

One point about Dany it doesn't diminish her value, if Jon hatches his own eggs. IF her job was to birth magic back into the world, then that helped to fuel the magic that Jon's going to need to fight and kill the Others.

[Lyse Stark]

people are getting to hung up on whether Jon being the messiah of all a cliché and that Grrm sets the reader up only to smash sterotypes.Yet I would like to point out if that's the case then why even write it that way in the first place. IT's true that Grrm goes a different route when writing but that doesn't mean that he's not writing a classic fantasy story, only he's showing different qualities that rulers have had from real world histories to write this fantasy. He's showing what works and what doesn't work to be a strong leader. That even when you have something that could give you superior military might that sometimes the easy way(burning westeros) to get what you want isn't the best way.with that being said I've always felt like the OP. That out of all the main characters there's something special about jon. Even more so than Dany.One point about Dany it doesn't diminish her value, if Jon hatches his own eggs. IF her job was to birth magic back into the world, then that helped to fuel the magic that Jon's going to need to fight and kill the Others.

Agreed. Dany, by burning her way through Westeros, isn't gonna be popular. Jon will be, by protecting Westeros from the Others.

[A MEN]

I find it interesting that house Targ has a 3 headed dragon on the crest and it was 3 dragons with 3 riders in which invaded westeros.
and yet everyone seems to favour the three headed dragon being an individual i have always presumed and may have done so wrongly that the three headed dragon is the name of house targ such as stark wolves and lannister lion.

if we take on board another theory shooting about these boards that the COTF and the starks are somehow linked by blood or some other occurance than JS would if L+R = J have blood of both. we can see the link to the COTF in Bran, taking in that the jojen reed also has the same ability they may also be linked to the COTF.

i have stated in a previous post that i find the color of the dragons too interesting to be ignored and could be a subtle ploy of GRRM
as they all link to elements.

Red and black = fire
White = Ice
Green & Brown = Earth

taking into account all dragons fly = Air

Danerys has already rode her dragon the question is who will ride the other two.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

snip

I am sorry but what Dany's dragon riders have to do with the OP's 3Headed dragon?

[Luddagain]

My theory on three three head is that a dragon has three heads or "souls"

1. The dragon has its animal personality - the fierce beast, possibly with an ancient dragon "soul" that moves from Targ to targ. I think that the reason so many targs go mad is that they cannot control the

but also some inner dragon "warg", which in thw absence of an actual dragon body to enter, starts to destroy the Targ host

2. The brain of the the soul of the person sacrificed to hatch the dragon

3. The dragon warg who must be able to warg the dragon but also have a strong bond with the dragon rider.

4. The dragon rider ie the person who controls the dragon but also is warged by the dragon soul

In the case of Drogon we have the dragon personality of balaerion, the brain of Drogon. Dany is the rider so who is the warg. My Money is on Ser Jorah (he comes from warg stock)

In the case of Rhaegal we have Meraxes ??? plus the unborn baby Not sure who the rider is but the warg could be Bran

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I am sorry for being or sound rude, but this is a thread about Jon being the 3Headed dragon,not about the 3headeddragon in general, can we please stay on topic? :D

[Jon's Queen Consort]

snip

I agree with you. I don’t believe that anyone should talk about clichés and Jon before talking about clichés and other characters like Dany for example. Also I don’t believe that it’s a cliché if Jon is what the OP stated simply because it’s one thing not 3-4 different things.

Agreed. Dany, by burning her way through Westeros, isn't gonna be popular. Jon will be, by protecting Westeros from the Others.

Good point.

[Mithras]

I think it is akin to Varamyr Sixskins. He has six skins, the skins of his five animals and his own. Jon having three heads could be the heads of Ghost and Drogon along with his own.

Bloodraven has thousand eyes (ravens, trees, etc.) and one (his own).

I dont like this theory, it can apply to any bastard in the series by using, the bastard name, father's house and mother's house.

Other characters in the series also have three personalities, like Dany, Mother, Khaleesi and Queen.

Good luck finding a bastard who happens to be a dragon at the same time.

I agree that you can start finding three faces/identities everywhere if you start looking for them. I think GRRM is not going to have a single protagonist emerge as rightful heir to the throne of Westeros; in fact I think this is wishful thinking on the part of fantasy purists longing for an Arthurian-style sword in the stone ending. GRRM has, after all, written of a pretty destructive throne in a cesspool of a city, which is a pretty significant clue that a regime change is overdue. I think there will be a king of the North at the end of the series. I hope it will be Jon. I think the dragons will survive and I think there will be three riders.

Most of all, I think it is offensive that Dany's role in the series is rear a dragon for the rightful heir.

Jon is Lightbringer and the stone dragon that needs to be awakened. So, it is already a sword in the stone story. Arya hid the Needle inside stone chairs.

No, because in such case the series should have been called "The exciting adventures of brave Jon".

The series is called the Song of Ice and Fire. Jon is the Prince that was Promised. Rhaegar said that the SOIAF belongs to tPtwP. A marriage between a Stark and a Targaryen was called the Pact of Ice and Fire. Jon saw a dream in which he was armored in Ice but holding a sword burning with Fire.

This is true its almost like Dany becoming a plot device rather than a character.

There are many different stories in the series and the Battle for Dawn is just one of them. Some people read the books only for the Game and do not give damn to the Others.

Jon is the main hero of the Battle for Dawn story. Other heroes have their own stories developing from the beginning. They cannot leave their own stories without conclusion and usurp the stories of other characters.

AA, PTWP, and LH being the same person with different cultures viewing him/her in different ways is just as possible but humor me.

The symmetry of this trinity is broken by TWOIAF. Now we know that there were shitloads of variations to AA.

Now it is clear that LH was the real hero who ended the LN and the other heroes were forged according to the myths of the LH travelling to the far corners of the world and evolving accordingly.

I'm still in the Ghost - Jon - Viserion camp.

I think Ghost will be sacrificed to heal Jon and Viserion will be the first dragon to die during the Second Dance of Dragons.

Varamyr was not always sixskins. He counted the numbers one by one. I think after Jon was healed, he will take control of Mormont's Raven like a true skinchanger and accept his gift. So, that will be his second head. The third head will be Drogon.

[Adam Targaryen]

The biggest problem I have with Jon being the song of ice and fire is that according to me the Starks aren't ice, just as the direwolves aren't the opposites of dragons. The white walkers are ice and the valerians were/are fire. The Starks can't have a connection with the white walkers in the same way that the Targaryens are the blood of old Valyria. Therefore Jon can't be ice and fire. In my opinion, if A song of ice and fire represents a person that is both ice and fire, I think it would be cool to see Daenerys as a white walker or possibly a wight (although from what I understand adults can't become white walkers). This might mean that Daenerys would become totally invincible and immortal by being both a Targaryen and a white walker. The only thing that kills white walkers is fire, dragonglass etc. and because of her Targaryen heritage she is immune to these things (Yes I know GRRM repeatedly said that Targs aren't immune to fire but I still want to believe they are and besides, Dany might be since she is LH/AA/TPTWP). Kind of a bad theory, but the point here is, Stark is NOT ice.

[Consigliere]

The biggest problem I have with Jon being the song of ice and fire is that according to me the Starks aren't ice, just as the direwolves aren't the opposites of dragons. The white walkers are ice and the valerians were/are fire. The Starks can't have a connection with the white walkers in the same way that the Targaryens are the blood of old Valyria. Therefore Jon can't be ice and fire. In my opinion, if A song of ice and fire represents a person that is both ice and fire, I think it would be cool to see Daenerys as a white walker or possibly a wight (although from what I understand adults can't become white walkers). This might mean that Daenerys would become totally invincible and immortal by being both a Targaryen and a white walker. The only thing that kills white walkers is fire, dragonglass etc. and because of her Targaryen heritage she is immune to these things (Yes I know GRRM repeatedly said that Targs aren't immune to fire but I still want to believe they are and besides, Dany might be since she is LH/AA/TPTWP). Kind of a bad theory, but the point here is, Stark is NOT ice.

In TWoIaF Cregan Stark and Jacaerys Velaryon agreed to a marriage pact where a Targ princess was due to marry into House Stark. The pact was called the Pact of Ice and Fire. So we do have an association between House Stark and ice and House Targaryen and fire.

[Mithras]

The biggest problem I have with Jon being the song of ice and fire is that according to me the Starks aren't ice, just as the direwolves aren't the opposites of dragons. The white walkers are ice and the valerians were/are fire. The Starks can't have a connection with the white walkers in the same way that the Targaryens are the blood of old Valyria. Therefore Jon can't be ice and fire. In my opinion, if A song of ice and fire represents a person that is both ice and fire, I think it would be cool to see Daenerys as a white walker or possibly a wight (although from what I understand adults can't become white walkers). This might mean that Daenerys would become totally invincible and immortal by being both a Targaryen and a white walker. The only thing that kills white walkers is fire, dragonglass etc. and because of her Targaryen heritage she is immune to these things (Yes I know GRRM repeatedly said that Targs aren't immune to fire but I still want to believe they are and besides, Dany might be since she is LH/AA/TPTWP). Kind of a bad theory, but the point here is, Stark is NOT ice.

Starks were known as Kings of Winter. Ned had icy eyes. There was Brandon Ice Eyes. Stark Targaryen marriage was called Pact of Ice and Fire.

[Adam Targaryen]

Starks were known as Kings of Winter. Ned had icy eyes. There was Brandon Ice Eyes. Stark Targaryen marriage was called Pact of Ice and Fire.

In TWoIaF Cregan Stark and Jacaerys Velaryon agreed to a marriage pact where a Targ princess was due to marry into House Stark. The pact was called the Pact of Ice and Fire. So we do have an association between House Stark and ice and House Targaryen and fire.

Yeah it makes sense in a way, but I feel like if the Starks are ice and the Targaryens are fire, that would make R'hllor and the Great Other's relationship kind of asymmetrical and weird. The Others are ice and the dragons are fire, but the Starks try to fight the Others through the Night's Watch while the Targaryens cooperated with their dragons. If Starks and Others are both ice, then why are they fighting and fearing each other?

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Yeah it makes sense in a way, but I feel like if the Starks are ice and the Targaryens are fire, that would make R'hllor and the Great Other's relationship kind of asymmetrical and weird. The Others are ice and the dragons are fire, but the Starks try to fight the Others through the Night's Watch while the Targaryens cooperated with their dragons. If Starks and Others are both ice, then why are they fighting and fearing each other?

Yes and no.First thing first neither the Great Other nor R'hllor are *good* guys, both the Others and dragons are death. Their union how ever is the balance. In any case I don't believe that the Others have anything to do with the Ice in the Starks. I believe that ice means the spells BtB used to create the made with ice Wall.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

To quote myself from yesterday;

My own litle crackpot is that the "ice" is refering to the ice spells which were used to creat the Wall, of ice, which protects the people of the Others and the fre are the fire and its spells which is the sourse of the fire which keep the Others away and kills the wights.

So the ice spells and the fire spells are the song which saves the humanity.

That said Bran the Builder, a Stark, used the ice spells and that is Starks are ice.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

Well, I've always wondered how the phrase "Song of Ice and Fire" figures into the prophecies. Rhaegar identified the song with the PtwP, and Aemon seems to identify the PtwP with AAR. What if Azor Ahai literally means Ice and Fire? If so, then the theory that Jon represents the song of ice and fire based on his Stark (Ice) and Targaryen (Fire) parentage would gain even more credence, because it'd tie right in to the role and identity of Azor Ahai Reborn.

The word song a lot of times is interchangeable with the word story.

I think that the "Song of Ice and Fire" is actually the Story of Lyanna and Rhaegar. Lyanna (the Ice) and Rhaegar (the Fire) and their love.

Their story brought about the destruction of the Targaryen Dynasty and most likely created TPwwP

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I thought about this, This third Targaryen might very well be -not- a Targaryen, to quote his exact words... "Three heads of the dragon... yes... but the third will not nessesarily BE a Targaryen..."

How this could work in Jon=3headed dragon case?

1. Jon the Dragon (d'uh), Jon the Crow (there were Targ blooded people at the Wall) and Jon the wolf (not a Targ)

2. Jon the Targ king on the Iron Throne, Jon the LC (again there was a Targbloodied LC) and Jon the KITN.

3. Jon Targ, Jon Snow or Sand or Waters or whatever as a Targ bastard, Jon Stark

What do you think?

[Consigliere]

I thought about this, This third Targaryen might very well be -not- a Targaryen, to quote his exact words... "Three heads of the dragon... yes... but the third will not nessesarily BE a Targaryen..."

How this could work in Jon=3headed dragon case?

1. Jon the Dragon (d'uh), Jon the Crow (there were Targ blooded people at the Wall) and Jon the wolf (not a Targ)

2. Jon the Targ king on the Iron Throne, Jon the LC (again there was a Targbloodied LC) and Jon the KITN.

3. Jon Targ, Jon Snow or Sand or Waters or whatever as a Targ bastard, Jon Stark

What do you think?

I like Fire Eater's interpretation on page 1 of this thread.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I like Fire Eater's interpretation on page 1 of this thread.

I agree.

[Nymeria_Stark]

And as usual, I can't help but wonder if GRRM is leaving the separate hanging bits of the three-headed dragon prophecy and the Targaryen sigil, intending people to see a connection that might in actuality not even be there.

You just got me thinking... It's human nature to look for patterns, even where there aren't any. SO, what if every "hint" GRRM dropped is irrelevant and every theory we've come up with is 100% false?!