[BOOK SPOILERS] Nitpick without repercussion?

[teemo]

Bleh...and I was SO excited about the jeyne/robb arc :\ Then I remember I wrote on GRRM's not a blog one day and said something like, "I can't wait to see behind-the-scenes of the Jeyne/Robb romance!!!" and he wrote, "Robb and someone..." or something along those lines. Everyone started bugging him about what he was talking about....

[Winter In My Heart]

Oh and one more thing, I got the sense that Jeyne didn't have a clue about Freys, armies or anything, I personally thought she came off as kinda dumb, but, I didn't get that she had an understanding that when Robb married her he was throwing away a huge chunk of his army and she was a young teenager herself.

Talisa, an adult, on her own, apparently with $$ to support herself, knows exactly what Robb is doing when he marries her, as they've discussed the Frey alliance and why he made it, and she does it anyway. Making her also a selfish asshole and a hypcrite to be blabbing to him about how aweful war is and then she marries the King in the North ensuring more strife and a longer war.

I never got the impression Jeyne was stupid, but now that you've mentioned it I don't think she had any clue what Robb gave up. Sybil might have because she's a traitor whether it was playing both sides to see what happens or just against the north from the start. Thanks for pointing this out, it only gives me more reason to hate Talisa lol. If they wanted to do a true love thing they could have done it much better without both seeming completely selfish. The scene with her and saying she hadn't seen herself marrying anyone until him. I call b.s on that. No woman who isn't a Silent Sister or Septa would have such thoughts. That scene along with the Lannister boys scene made me hate the character, and realize the actress playing her isn't that great herself.

[Winter In My Heart]

I hope that isn't the case, look on the bright side, they're clearly enamoured of Dany's character and they butchered her storyline last year too and the writing left Emilia Clark nothing much but foot stomping tantrums, reciting her 50 titles and asking if anyone had seen her dragons. So, perhaps it isn't that they don't like Robb or Cat, but that they're not as good as they think they are at being creative when they go totally off the reservation with new plotlines. This is where they've abjectly failed. Little adaptations and new material that sheds light on EXISTING stuff in the books, they are usually good at. All new stuff, not so much.

Okay maybe I'm exaggerating but it certainly feels like they hate Robb and Cat. Why else come up with a horrible storyline and ruin both characters? I agree little changes were fine, I liked the Arya and Tywin scenes, but the making huge changes thing has just been horribly.

Bleh...and I was SO excited about the jeyne/robb arc :\ Then I remember I wrote on GRRM's not a blog one day and said something like, "I can't wait to see behind-the-scenes of the Jeyne/Robb romance!!!" and he wrote, "Robb and someone..." or something along those lines. Everyone started bugging him about what he was talking about....

I know! I couldn't wait to see it fleshed out and it was a big let down the moment her character was on screen and said her name was Talisa. Really he said that? It's bugged me since the change started but I wonder how much he likes/dislikes what they've done to that storyline. I can't see Martin liking it when he mentioned something about spunky peasants back talking kings. (Peasant by Westeros standards anyway.)

[teemo]

Okay maybe I'm exaggerating but it certainly feels like they hate Robb and Cat. Why else come up with a horrible storyline and ruin both characters? I agree little changes were fine, I liked the Arya and Tywin scenes, but the making huge changes thing has just been horribly.

I know! I couldn't wait to see it fleshed out and it was a big let down the moment her character was on screen and said her name was Talisa. Really he said that? It's bugged me since the change started but I wonder how much he likes/dislikes what they've done to that storyline. I can't see Martin liking it when he mentioned something about spunky peasants back talking kings. (Peasant by Westeros standards anyway.)

here it is, had to search for it a bit. first comment - http://grrm.livejournal.com/272040.html

[Winter In My Heart]

here it is, had to search for it a bit. first comment - http://grrm.livejournal.com/272040.html

If I had seen that back then, that would have been a huge red flag to me.

[Cas Stark]

I think they are too surface. What I got from their commentary was that they thought a love story was more adult and, unsaid, more appealing to a modern audience.

And, while that may be true, the particular love story they decided to tell was all wrong from a character consistency standpoint. If you are going to have Robb marry not for honor but for love, you damn well better make sure there is serious screen chemistry and a very believable feeling to their story. Random tramping around nurse who then barges into to war councils is not it.

And one more time for the record, if adult Robb is marrying for love he needs to do so in context of a rejection of his father's ethic of self sacrifice because he's seen that self sacrifice and mercy led to his death. He needs to become a hardass bent on revenge who wants a little time with a woman he loves before going out in a blaze of glory to avenge his father.

[bobbybuilderton]

At this point I think Ygritte's death will mean more to most viewers (on an emotional level) than Robb's and Catelyn's. And that is too bad. Hell, it will mean more to me too. There's almost no way the RW will have the emotional impact it did. Robb is so unlikable in the show and Talisa is an afterthought. I blame it on the actress's long face...partially.

[teemo]

it's unbelievable how most of my unsullied friends have turned on robb, calling him selfish and even an "asshole" this past week. "Didn't he learn anything from his father? Why is he such a selfish, immature jerk? I hope he dies." Yes, those words.....it's difficult not saying anything, lol.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

So wait, your saying because of Talisa they had to write Robb as a douche?

I'm not questioning you, I just want to know. It sounds like something D&D would do. I know I'm probably wrong.. But I still have a very strong feeling they only changed Jeyne to a completely different character (and thus Martin suggesting the name change) was because they wanted Oona because of her last name. (Yes I know it's probably a tad stupid of me to think that but I seriously can't help it. She isn't very good, at least not in GoT. I blame the writing and her acting, not one or the other.) But that's just me I'd like for what I think to actually be somehow proven wrong but her character just does nothing for me except hate the change.

You might have a point, but I think we have a lot of good c haracters around that she could have played if they wanted her so much.

Do middle ages era virgins usually strip down to have wild sex on the floor with men who are officially engaged to be married to other people, without any hesitation, or discussion of a relationship being involved? Didn't think so.

TBH, not even ladies did it, I believe. People had sex with clothes. I read that somewhere :P

[Cas Stark]

it's unbelievable how most of my unsullied friends have turned on robb, calling him selfish and even an "asshole" this past week. "Didn't he learn anything from his father? Why is he such a selfish, immature jerk? I hope he dies." Yes, those words.....it's difficult not saying anything, lol.

It also occured to me they made Robb more of a jerk in the show on purpose to blunt the impact of the RW...that if viewers only lose both their favorite characters, Ned and Robb, they would tune out...now that they've ensured that Dany and Tyrion are everyone's favorite characters by turning Robb into a selfish dumbass....him dying won't turn people off the show.

[Winter In My Heart]

You might have a point, but I think we have a lot of good c haracters around that she could have played if they wanted her so much.

TBH, not even ladies did it, I believe. People had sex with clothes. I read that somewhere :P

A lot of people said she would have been better as a member of the Martells. (Cant remember which character.) But I think they may have been right. Maybe she specifically wanted to play a love interest to one of the attractive actors and that's why they butchered the Robb/Jeyne arc, lol.

[Minsc]

It also occured to me they made Robb more of a jerk in the show on purpose to blunt the impact of the RW...that if viewers only lose both their favorite characters, Ned and Robb, they would tune out...now that they've ensured that Dany and Tyrion are everyone's favorite characters by turning Robb into a selfish dumbass....him dying won't turn people off the show.

Maybe, that is why they turned Jon into a complete doofus in the show through hopefully that doesn't reveal the reality of his situation in aDwD.

[Winter In My Heart]

It also occured to me they made Robb more of a jerk in the show on purpose to blunt the impact of the RW...that if viewers only lose both their favorite characters, Ned and Robb, they would tune out...now that they've ensured that Dany and Tyrion are everyone's favorite characters by turning Robb into a selfish dumbass....him dying won't turn people off the show.

Huh I hadn't thought about that. I thought the RW was what they were dying to do and that's why they started this show. They're selfish assholes if that's the case. They could have played up other characters while not making Robb a jerk.

[Cas Stark]

Huh I hadn't thought about that. I thought the RW was what they were dying to do and that's why they started this show. They're selfish assholes if that's the case. They could have played up other characters while not making Robb a jerk.

I ask you this. Does this season feel like it has all been leading up to the Red Wedding?

I know they said it, people say all kinds of stuff, maybe they even believe it, I have not seen the evidence in Season 3 of GOT that the RW is what they are working towards or even that they actually understand what it was about and what it symbolized because if they did then we would have seen some of Robb's bannermen this season who are going to die with him, and we'd certainly be seeing more of his mother in the last few episodes.

[teemo]

It also occured to me they made Robb more of a jerk in the show on purpose to blunt the impact of the RW...that if viewers only lose both their favorite characters, Ned and Robb, they would tune out...now that they've ensured that Dany and Tyrion are everyone's favorite characters by turning Robb into a selfish dumbass....him dying won't turn people off the show.

if that's true then that's just bad writing and planning. turn characters into dicks to soften the blow? the RW scene is a huge part of what inspired D&D to make the show....to make the victims unlikable for fear of losing viewers is a disservice to the RW and fans. there are enough characters to compensate for the loss of Robb and Cat. honestly, it doesn't really look to me like they're TRYING to make him unlikable - he just is because people do not like his reasoning of breaking his promise to the Freys and causing drama. it's their fault that his situation is pretty unsympathetic to a lot of people. I think it's attributed more to bad writing than deliberately trying to make people dislike robb.

[Winter In My Heart]

I ask you this. Does this season feel like it has all been leading up to the Red Wedding?

I know they said it, people say all kinds of stuff, maybe they even believe it, I have not seen the evidence in Season 3 of GOT that the RW is what they are working towards or even that they actually understand what it was about and what it symbolized because if they did then we would have seen some of Robb's bannermen this season who are going to die with him, and we'd certainly be seeing more of his mother in the last few episodes.

Yeah that's true. They should be spending time having the bannermen being shown and Catelyn and show that Robb actually feels bad about screwing up, not these short little scenes where he's a jerk and Talisa couldn't care less she helped screw things up. Ad what really gets me is Theon gets like ten minute scenes almost every episode. Why? He's not dying episode nine, cut some of that back and spend more time for the characters who are going to die and building up the loyalty between the Starks and the loyal bannermen.

[Grand Moff Mithrandir]

During the "meeting" with the Yunkishman everybody(including Missandei) spoke english, why no valyrian :dunno:

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

Lol yeah D&D really aren't great at writing arcs for characters they don't like. And mostly the Starks get the shaft.. Robb's a douche, Catelyn is like nonexistent and gets everything cut, same goes for Sansa and they haven't done a thing to show she's slowly getting smarter like she is in the books, Jon was just an idiot in season two (though he's a tiny bit better this season), Bran and Rickon aren't getting much of anything but I know that's in part of not much to do with them. Arya is the only one who's been decently written despite some of the little changes they've done to her.

Arya's whole arc in season 2 was butchered beyond recognition. So no, they don't know how to write Arya either. It seems that they love to write about the Lannisters, the Tyrells, and Theon, that's about it.

[Minsc]

Arya's whole arc in season 2 was butchered beyond recognition. So no, they don't know how to write Arya either. It seems that they love to write about the Lannisters, the Tyrells, and Theon, that's about it.

They have said they loved the Red Wedding scene, but I don't recall them calling it tragic so maybe they actually saw it as a triumphal moment in the books.

[Winter In My Heart]

Arya's whole arc in season 2 was butchered beyond recognition. So no, they don't know how to write Arya either. It seems that they love to write about the Lannisters, the Tyrells, and Theon, that's about it.

Okay well, basically I just meant I liked the Arya scenes with Tywin. What I didn't like was how it didn't move the plot along, even if the banter was amusing. I guess I just mean I liked her story line this season, not so much the changes last season. But yeah your right it's all about Tyrion, in particular to the Lannisters but them as a whole as well, the Tyrell's, and Theon. I'd even argue this season it's about Dany too. Why do we see her dragons wayyy more than we've seen the direwolves? I swear we saw Grey Wind like once since the start of season two.. I think Summer was the only one shown this season and we NEVER see Shaggydog.