[BOOK SPOILERS] Nitpick without repercussion?

[Jolene Brown]

Isn't Grey Wind the main reason Robb wins his first or one of his first big battles? Because he leads Robb to some unused path? Against Devan Lannister's father, or against Jaime? (can't remember which). Each Stark's relationship with his/her wolf demonstrates something really important about his character and the development of that character. Robb choosing to separate himself a bit from Grey Wolf both because he makes Jeyne uncomfortable and because he doesn't like the way that relationship is causing others to see him is such a huge insight into his character; it hurts to lose it.

[Theda Baratheon]

me too. great way to keep viewers invested in the Starks.

Definitely. + I really do think they are significant to the series. They could have at LEAST had some people mention Nymeria like ''there's a wolf pack led by a gigantic wolf in the riverlands'' or some shit.

[Birdsong65]

Because how they are actually rooting for House Lannister, notice how the only characters they like to focus on and do extremely well with are individuals that screwed over the Starks (Cersei, Jaime, Tyrion, Tywin, and Theon) while the Starks (and Tullys) themselves are butchered in their adaption (Arya, Blackfish, Bran, Catelyn, Edmure, Jon, Robb, and Sansa).

Honestly, if I hadn't read the books and Joffrey I might be rooting for the Lannisters because how well written (or whitewashed) they are in comparison to the Starks who are written inconsistent at best.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that they are actually rooting for the Lannisters, but I do take your point. The characters who have been egregiously whitewashed, even from season 1, do appear to be favorites of the producers, et al. Those plot lines and character signatures which have been seriously underplayed, undervalued, or outright dismissed do tend to fall within the venue of Stark Loyalists.

Being an unsullied viewer really is the best way to approach this show as it eliminates any basis of comparison, and can be taken at face value, exclusively. Which is why, when my bro asked if he should start reading the books, I was really hard pressed to answer him. The books are great, the show is a condensed cliff notes version of the same.

And, FWIW, I agree with the poster who suggested that for the women of this show, there are two categories allowed by D and D. The first is Badass, and the other is Catelyn and Sansa Stupid, of which only Catelyn and Sansa are members.

[moey reed]

I don't remember Arya ever having a wolf dream. Did she?

i'm taking everything back..i have no idea why i thought we saw arya having a dream and i was soo sure..now i'm just sad, maybe i dreamt it myself or got it confused with one of bran's dreams..damn it

[protar]

i'm taking everything back..i have no idea why i thought we saw arya having a dream and i was soo sure..now i'm just sad, maybe i dreamt it myself or got it confused with one of bran's dreams..damn it

We absolutely have seen Arya have a wolf dream, though not at this point in the series. She sees Nymeria pulling Cat out of the water, and killing Bloody Mummers. And in Braavos she knows that it is snowing in the Riverlands through Nymeria.

[Silverx2]

We absolutely have seen Arya have a wolf dream, though not at this point in the series. She sees Nymeria pulling Cat out of the water, and killing Bloody Mummers. And in Braavos she knows that it is snowing in the Riverlands through Nymeria.

She also Sees Nymeria become the Alpha of her pack early on.

[moey reed]

We absolutely have seen Arya have a wolf dream, though not at this point in the series. She sees Nymeria pulling Cat out of the water, and killing Bloody Mummers. And in Braavos she knows that it is snowing in the Riverlands through Nymeria.

i meant on the show

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

No one other than Bran has had a wolf dream on the show. No one other than Bran has had dreams of any kind on the show. (Ok, Sansa has a nightmare about the riot before she flowered).

[WardenOfTheNerds]

No one other than Bran has had a wolf dream on the show. No one other than Bran has had dreams of any kind on the show. (Ok, Sansa has a nightmare about the riot before she flowered).

Yeah i think it would be good actually if they threw one dream for Jon and Arya at least, to give the show viewers a hint that the wolf dreams are generally a Stark thing, and not just some extension of Bran's magic powers.

[Angmar]

I thought this was the worst episode of the season. I hated the first 20 minutes of it...Really.

So much filler at random scenes...The parts with Shae and Osha were just bland and repetitive.

And yes the lack of direwolves is terrible! They make all the efforts to bond Daenerys with her dragons and they don't realise the wolves are as important for the Starks...At least they have names, whereas the dragons haven't even been named in the show.

[protar]

i meant on the show

Ah right. I doesn't happen then. Sorry :blushing:

I think that it would be best though to save that until Nymeria finds Uncat for the most dramatic effect.

[Raksha the Demon]

Agreed. Maybe they should have kept using real wolves (or dogs, those in s1 looked like dogs!). I know that working with animals is pretty hard and annoying, but it would be a cheaper than CGI (or am I wrong?).

To play devil's advocate (especially since I really hate the lack of direwolf presence in Season 2-3), I believe that the UK has laws about underage actors/actresses being in presence of wolves or wolf hybrids. That's why the Season 1 direwolves were played by a rare breed of dogs who are bred to look like wolves but are not - the Northern Inuit Dog. But adult direwolves are supposed to be huge; perhaps bigger than most wolflike dogs who could be found to play them; hence, I would think, the usage of CGI.

Of course, the TV GOT producers/directors have evidently decided to spend money on Ramsey Bolton's castration cheerleader hookers, or Podrick Payne's victory tour of King's Landing whorehouses, or Pycelle's aerobics (season 1) or Selyse's dead babies in jars or whatever rather than on the Stark direwolves that started the whole story....(GRRM mentioned at some point that he started writing ASoIaF after having a dream or an idea where he visualized the finding of the direwolf pups and the Stark children getting them) :bang:

[Raksha the Demon]

This...doesnt make any sense. Ros, random prostitutes and Littlefinger monologues cost almost nothing compared to a CGI direwolf. Now, if you were to say that it was a waste of time, then that makes sense, as you can easily justify that the time could have been better used elsewhere.

I know that CGI direwolves wouldn't be cheap. However, they knew that going in, in the decision to make the show; or at least they should have. They're managing to find the money to show Dany's dragons doing cute and dragonish things even when said dragons are not actively frying slave bosses/furthering the actual plot. And, as you pointed out, they've found the time to present Podrick's seriocomic sexual development but not even bother to show Nymeria's dream interaction with Arya or Ghost's presence anywhere...

[moey reed]

Ah right. I doesn't happen then. Sorry :blushing:

I think that it would be best though to save that until Nymeria finds Uncat for the most dramatic effect.

you're probably right...i hope they'll eventually show it, otherwise i don't know what D&D's definition of important to the stroyline is

[Draco_Dracul]

I know that CGI direwolves wouldn't be cheap. However, they knew that going in, in the decision to make the show; or at least they should have. They're managing to find the money to show Dany's dragons doing cute and dragonish things even when said dragons are not actively frying slave bosses/furthering the actual plot. And, as you pointed out, they've found the time to present Podrick's seriocomic sexual development but not even bother to show Nymeria's dream interaction with Arya or Ghost's presence anywhere...

Dragons are cheaper than wolves because wolves have fur which is one of the most difficult things to CGI.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

Wolf dreams are easy to do, because you don't actually have to show the wolf.

[Draco_Dracul]

Wolf dreams are easy to do, because you don't actually have to show the wolf.

Fair enough, and Bran's wolf dream in season 2 was one of the most artistic shots in the whole series.

[Masamune]

I think it's because Dany and hurrr dragons has become something of a meme now. They're just giving the audience what they want to see.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

Fair enough, and Bran's wolf dream in season 2 was one of the most artistic shots in the whole series.

That's my point, you can always come up with a million reasons to not do something, but where is a will, there is a way. If they wanted the wolves to be integral to the show, they can find a way. I actually think what they need is for D&D to write fewer episode, they should hire a couple more writers. I think writing 8 of the 10 episodes, plus producing and show running, and even dabbling in directing, is taking away their attention to detail because they simply don't have the time. They need to have someone else help carry the load on the story end.

[DorneToTheWall]

In ADWD it isnt clear if Theon has been castrated, i like the idea that it's up for argument because there is info for and against it. I dislike how in this episode they made it clear cut that he had his manhood.... tampered with.