[Book spoilers] About Black Fish...

[Sasha Steelsong]

So basically if Brandon Tully goes to the Frey's wedding as well, it pretty much guarantees that he will be either killed or held as one of the hostages. It is baffling cause the whole "Riverrun Siege" plot will be gone as well, how will the Director handle the future seasons then?

I was wondering the exact same thing. I have no clue how they would do the Riverrun seige without him, so I'm guessing he'll turn back for some reason. Is it possible that Robb sends Talisa back to Riverrun because he's found out that she is pregnant? It would be one way to get Robb's wife and the Blackfish back at Riverrun without too much fuss. I know they are changing things around but I just don't see them skipping the seige at Riverrun completely.

[Tyrion4President]

Mayhaps the Blackfish is one of Robb's bannerman who is entrusted with Robb's will?

I commented this on another thread but if its true that Talisa is pregnant and Robb is aware then when he finds out about Sansa marrying Tyrion he will have no reason to write his will. He knows he has an aire and its pointless for him to legitimize Jon.

[Carne]

He'll probably kick some ass at the wedding then get captured.

They're not going to kill him off.

[The Mighty Conch]

Then she will be the heir of Winterfell? It doesn't seem to be a problem for Sansa. I was always under the impression that aside from Dorne (and the Iron Islands) most of Westeros operates under male-preference primogeniture--boys come before girls, but if there are no male heirs, daughters are next in line and daughters of a male heir always come before the heir's brothers.

Actually, no. Sansa can never be the heir of Winterfell. What Margarey was talking about was that if/when Robb is defeated Tyrion would be given Winterfell and Sansa as his wife would give him children who would become heirs to Winterfell.

As I recall, northmen follow the rules of inheritance as being only a man can inherit. Not a woman.

I was wondering the exact same thing. I have no clue how they would do the Riverrun seige without him, so I'm guessing he'll turn back for some reason. Is it possible that Robb sends Talisa back to Riverrun because he's found out that she is pregnant? It would be one way to get Robb's wife and the Blackfish back at Riverrun without too much fuss. I know they are changing things around but I just don't see them skipping the seige at Riverrun completely.

It is very possible that she gets sent back with Blackfish, but having an obvious heir from Robb would be a substantial change from the books. But I think Robb is on a roll of dumb decisions and will continue to the Twins with Talisa...

[ShigellaSand]

I wonder if maybe the Blackfish's clever escape from Riverrun will be changed into a clever escape from The Twins? He doesn't technically need to be at Riverrun for there to be a siege... Of course that would beg the question of what he'd be doing instead, so maybe he'd escape from The Twins and go straight to Riverrun.

[Young Nan]

I wonder if maybe the Blackfish's clever escape from Riverrun will be changed into a clever escape from The Twins?

that's what I'm thinking they'll do. They'll probably ignore the seige of riverrun entirely, and instead consolidate the plot by having the escape happen now.

[David Selig]

Actually, no. Sansa can never be the heir of Winterfell. What Margarey was talking about was that if/when Robb is defeated Tyrion would be given Winterfell and Sansa as his wife would give him children who would become heirs to Winterfell.

As I recall, northmen follow the rules of inheritance as being only a man can inherit. Not a woman.

No, they don't. Sansa was Robb's heir, that's why he specifically made a point to disinherit her in his will. Alys Karstark is her brother's heir. Etc, etc.

[Runaway Penguin]

Guess: When Talissa now said she's preggers, Cat will insist on Robb sending her to Riverrun safety (that was in the book reason for Jeyne not going in the first place and being pissed off). Who better to escort her there than the Blackfish?

[mbuehner]

No, they don't. Sansa was Robb's heir, that's why he specifically made a point to disinherit her in his will. Alys Karstark is her brother's heir. Etc, etc.

Sansa could never be a ruling queen. Look at how Lady Hornwood fared- she inherited the title, but all that meant in practice was half the kingdom scheming to marry her to really hold the title. There was no question of Lady Hornwood, even past the child bearing years, ruling the house or remaining unmarried. Even the suggestion of her adopting a Tallheart was nixed because the boy was not considered old enough to stand up to the Boltons or Umbers... nobody even thought to question if Lady Hornwood was strong enough because its irrelevant. So you could call Sansa the heir, but she's really just a place holder.

[WardenOfTheNorth]

Some people think he will turn back for Riverrun, but who knows?

[Cas Stark]

Guess: When Talissa now said she's preggers, Cat will insist on Robb sending her to Riverrun safety (that was in the book reason for Jeyne not going in the first place and being pissed off). Who better to escort her there than the Blackfish?

Jesus, then there will literally be no one any viewer has ever seen as guests except for Robb and Cat.

[David Selig]

Sansa could never be a ruling queen. Look at how Lady Hornwood fared- she inherited the title, but all that meant in practice was half the kingdom scheming to marry her to really hold the title. There was no question of Lady Hornwood, even past the child bearing years, ruling the house or remaining unmarried. Even the suggestion of her adopting a Tallheart was nixed because the boy was not considered old enough to stand up to the Boltons or Umbers... nobody even thought to question if Lady Hornwood was strong enough because its irrelevant. So you could call Sansa the heir, but she's really just a place holder.

Lady Hornwood wasn't Hornwood by blood, only by marriage. Plus her case is hardly the rule - Lady Dustin for example has been doing fine for many years in the same situation.

Guess: When Talissa now said she's preggers, Cat will insist on Robb sending her to Riverrun safety (that was in the book reason for Jeyne not going in the first place and being pissed off). Who better to escort her there than the Blackfish?

No way, this would require Cat's actions to have some influence on the events and for her to show some initiative, and the showrunners are hell-bent against any of this happening this season.

[ebevan91]

He'll probably kick some ass at the wedding then get captured.

They're not going to kill him off.

He should cut down some Freys while fleeing with Talisa.

[Loras]

My biggest problem with the Blackfish/Greatjon merger is that he seems to have forgotten the Tully words...

Family, Duty, Honour.

This Blackfish certainly lacks honour. He has been underserved by the adaptation (and given some clunky dialogue) over the course of the season.

I can't really reconcile the Blackfish from his scene with Cat in Episode 3 with the one who speaks about wet shits in front of his rightful Queen and his niece.

['96Buck]

They can't kill the Blackfish, damnit. They already have, in a way, but still. Quick, someone tell the producers of Brynden's alleged homosexuality, they may keep him alive to get a chance to put some more gay jokes in!

The Riverrun plot is not a small plot, for Jaime it's huge, since it shows him breaking his vows again yet somehow desperately trying to honour these vows to some degree and still soothe his own conscious. And if someone wants to argue that something that's important to Jaime's character can be seen as 'small', then I think you underestimate the importance of single character arcs and their development opposed to the bigger scheme of things... Really, the overarching story simply exists to have a framework to have these characters go through such evolutions, and these characters and their struggles are what makes the story. So no, the siege of Riverrun is definitely not small.

And I see here someone actually putting the Brackens forward instead as a replacement for Riverrun, as if two small houses the show hasn't even told us about and also won't should somehow be more important and preferable to the siege of Riverrun, which is an established place in the show about which you can't simply leave the viewers hanging... *sigh*

They can bring Jaime on the arc without Riverrun with ease. And it's barely an established place on the show, they've been there for about 20 total minutes of screen time, no? Hoster's funeral, Karstark's murders/sentencing/execution, and the Frey delegation. I'm not suggesting that it's better, but that it's doable. If they wanted to follow the book...they already would have, with Talisa and the BF staying there. Also, I'm not sure the BF is established enough for the RR parley with Jaime to really work, anyway. We don't really know who BF is to sneer at Jaime, or for Jaime to hold in respect. If they were intending to do that, I think they would have followed the book more closely for BF's introduction in the first place.

And to do the Riverrun siege, you need a lot of exterior shots of another new castle, with fairly unusual design elements, and a lot of new characters. That's expensive. The incentive to NOT do it is easy to see, IMO.

[Draco_Dracul]

I commented this on another thread but if its true that Talisa is pregnant and Robb is aware then when he finds out about Sansa marrying Tyrion he will have no reason to write his will. He knows he has an aire and its pointless for him to legitimize Jon.

So he can have a King in the North with combat training instead of an infant in the event that he should die before the war ends? He always has the option of recending Jon's status as heir should he win the war.

[jarl the climber]

My biggest problem with the Blackfish/Greatjon merger is that he seems to have forgotten the Tully words...

Family, Duty, Honour.

This Blackfish certainly lacks honour. He has been underserved by the adaptation (and given some clunky dialogue) over the course of the season.

I can't really reconcile the Blackfish from his scene with Cat in Episode 3 with the one who speaks about wet shits in front of his rightful Queen and his niece.

Thats because Cat and Talissa are sort of out of place in an army thats 95% male. Hes probaly been cursing at guys all day long on the march and he sort of forgot himself. It also shows that he dislikes the Freys and Lord Walder in particular.

[Birdsong65]

I can't really reconcile the Blackfish from his scene with Cat in Episode 3 with the one who speaks about wet shits in front of his rightful Queen and his niece.

As to the bolded above, has anyone else noticed that that was the only scene where the BF has not been drinking? Very Bronn-ish. I noticed it because of the "wet shits" comment, and then thought about how he seems to be drinking in every scene, except the one with only Catelyn. Where'd that guy go?

[Fat Mac]

I don't complain about the series much, but the Blackfish has been my main complaint. I mean seriously, what an asshole. This episode was no different, except it showed him as unnecessarily crude as well.

[amilas]

I think the Blackfish is going to the Twins for two reasons. 1) So that he is still in the show and they can remind people of who he is. They introduced him too late to believe that he has any lasting value to any viewer. 2) He will be the one to show how Edmure (and maybe Talisa) escape to Riverrun. They will most likely show that, rather than talk about it.