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Dolorous Nick

(Book Spoilers) Is Locke an improvement over Vargo?

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Locke is meh to me. He's ok. The thing about Vargo was the Companions. They were so colorful is a scary scary kind of way. Locke is minimally scary. If at all.

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I agree I think a trauma caused to you by someone else for a completely nonsensical reason is actually more horrifying. Whenever there is a tragedy the first thing people do is try to search for a reason. If the reason comes up to be the perpetrator was just crazy and had no real good reason to do it victims usually have an even harder time coping. Also I understand the idea that the show has a more serious tone I think a little humor and levity on screen helps make the serious situations have much more impact.

That's a really interesting thought you have. Flipping the perspective for a second, in the show when Jaime is searching for reason, he finds that he lost his hand based around his entire lifestyle - gold, father, etc. I think in the end of the day that may help his character develop into a less fickle and more contemplative character, that will never use gold or his father as reasoning for anything ever again... That being said, he just used both lines of reasoning in the latest episode, so that kind of defeats my point.

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To me Locke is an improvement. Vargo is one of the characters that I definitely don't miss. He annoyed me in the books, and I think Locke works better on screen, Vargo would have come across very cartoonish and silly.

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TBH, I was initially really disappointed at the axing of Vargo, but Locke has proved to be a suitable replacement. I enjoyed Vargo as a villain, given that he was so comical, but I think that might have been the problem as well. He might have come off as too comical. Also, Locke's monologue before cutting off Jaime's hand creeped me out more than Vargo ever did, so I guess it worked out in the end. Locke is a far better new character than some other forgettable ones (coughcoughTalisacoughcough).

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I don't think Vargo would have worked in the show at all.

And I think Locke would have been uninteresting in the books.

They both suit their mediums perfectly IMHO.

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Yes. Hoat was stupid in print and would have ruined the show if included.

Agree with this.

Locke for the win.

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TBH, I was initially really disappointed at the axing of Vargo, but Locke has proved to be a suitable replacement. I enjoyed Vargo as a villain, given that he was so comical, but I think that might have been the problem as well. He might have come off as too comical. Also, Locke's monologue before cutting off Jaime's hand creeped me out more than Vargo ever did, so I guess it worked out in the end. Locke is a far better new character than some other forgettable ones (coughcoughTalisacoughcough).

I agree exactly with you, I like Lock in a way I could never like Vargo, the actor does a great job IMO maybe its the accent of the way he deivers the line but sometimes I really enjoy his dialogue, like, “Enough to buy me a new head? If the king in the north hears I had the Kingslayer and let him go he would be taking it right off. I’d rather he take yours.” im not sure why I just loved the way he did that line. and with the bar bit scene "we've only got one bear" and "THE FUCK YOU DOING TO MY BEAR!?" fantastic :D

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Yeah Locke has had some awesome one-liners in the show, which his actor has played to perfection. That's honestly what's won me over to Locke and made me realize that changing characters entirely (like they did with Jayne Westerling) doesn't always mean the character doesn't work for the storyline. Locke works and is despicable and vile, that's all viewers need to identify with what Jaime and Brienne are going through. All the lisping and stuff from Hoat was funny and the his troop of freaks were definitely creepy guys, but it may not have translated as well onto the screen.

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The only problem I have with it is that it just doesn't make sense that Bolton wouldn't be held responsible for the actions of one of his men. In the book Vargo is clearly an independent player, so Bolton saying "Hey, I had nothing to do with that" is a legitimate claim. Bolton saying that now isn't really a legitimate claim. He's Bolton's man and Bolton's responsibility.

But I understand completely why they did it, and they didn't have much choice, so I just overlook that inconsistency.

This doesn't bother me as much, especially concerning Tywin. Tywin is the guy who is doing the exact same thing in regards to Gregor and Aegon/Rhaenys/Elia. So if it can make sense for Tywin to do it, it can certainly make sense to Tywin for Bolton to do it.

As for Locke. I love em, and Hope he replaces other characters down the road, namely the Shagwell crew.

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Some people in this thread make the interesting point that Hoat was an example of Tywin's chickens coming home to roost. I'd argue that Locke does the same thing to Bolton. Bolton's tolerance for wanton cruelty factored into Locke's decision to cut the hand off; Locke did not think Bolton would care. Now, rather than gaining the complete gratitude of the Lannisters, Bolton will have to face down their wrath. I wonder if this will lead to an axing of the entire fake arya storyline as part of the fallout?

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I agree exactly with you, I like Lock in a way I could never like Vargo, the actor does a great job IMO maybe its the accent of the way he deivers the line but sometimes I really enjoy his dialogue, like, “Enough to buy me a new head? If the king in the north hears I had the Kingslayer and let him go he would be taking it right off. I’d rather he take yours.” im not sure why I just loved the way he did that line. and with the bar bit scene "we've only got one bear" and "THE FUCK YOU DOING TO MY BEAR!?" fantastic :D

Love those quotes, and I agree whereas on one hand Hoat as a mercenary is merely greedy, Locke on the other seems to be deeply mean in the thrifty sense which is a far more ingrained personal defect. I think I'm trying to say that Hoat as a character is pretty superficial, while Locke seems to have greater depth which is quite an achievement for the script writers and the actor.

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I was disappointed there was no Vargo at first, but tbh Locke was the Vargo of the screen adaptation, and ended up being just as hilarious and dark. I'm not sure he's an improvement though, mostly because it changes the narrative slightly, so it's early to tell.

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I agree exactly with you, I like Lock in a way I could never like Vargo, the actor does a great job IMO maybe its the accent of the way he deivers the line but sometimes I really enjoy his dialogue, like, “Enough to buy me a new head? If the king in the north hears I had the Kingslayer and let him go he would be taking it right off. I’d rather he take yours.” im not sure why I just loved the way he did that line. and with the bar bit scene "we've only got one bear" and "THE FUCK YOU DOING TO MY BEAR!?" fantastic :D

Agree, the guy does have his comedic moments that almost make up for the loss of "Kingthlayer, you are my capthith"

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I don't know, they are just different (Vargo and Locke). I think Locke serves better the show than Vargo would, but Vargo serves the book better than Locke would've done.

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Just different. I spat blood when I heard Hoat wouldn't be in the series because the character is just hilarious, but I like the actor playing this guy.

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