[BOOK SPOILERS] Episode 9 Preview

[Asshai by the Shadow]

Is anyone dreading this as much as I am? As a HUGE Robb Stark fan I feel nauseous just thinking about it

[Angmar]

I don't wanna see it either, I just know it'll be terrible...

What's worse is I have a final Monday so I better feel okay going to it. :D

[Mayhem]

I noticed the Blackfish was traveling with Robb last episode, does that mean hes going to die at the Red Wedding too?

[TomBadgerlock]

I noticed the Blackfish was traveling with Robb last episode, does that mean hes going to die at the Red Wedding too?

Maybe. Seems unlikely that they would bother introducing him though, if that were the case.

[lyanna wolfgirl]

By the way I have seen some of you guys in the spoiler thread at the other site so if you know whats going to happen please stop posting hopw you can't wait to see something you know is going to happen.

which thread is this? could you please provide a link? :)

[Claymore]

I noticed the Blackfish was traveling with Robb last episode, does that mean hes going to die at the Red Wedding too?

I think he'll probably return to Riverrun before reaching the Twins. If not, maybe he could fill Raynald Westerling's role and cut Greywind free. He could then take a crossbow bolt, fall into the river, and reappear in episode 10.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

I have wanted to address the "they haven't built up the Northern bannermen so the RW will not be emotional enough" complaint for awhile so I'll do it now.

First off, the Northern bannermen of any note that die at the RW are in order: the Smalljon, Dacey Mormont and I suppose Wendel Manderly. The Greatjon is technically there but not involved at all in the massacre and is only mentioned well after the fact (plus he doesn't die, he just gets captured).

In terms of the 3 bannermen mentioned, my memory might be hazy but I don't believe any of them had been "built up" in the books prior to the RW to any significant degree. I don't even think any of them had any lines in the books before they got to the wedding (maybe a stray one here or there, who knows?). I'm pretty sure the Smalljon never uttered a word throughout his brief time in the book universe. The ONLY reason that readers remember these individuals is because of the way they went out at the RW and Cat's descriptions of their actions and deaths. The Greatjon is really the only bannerman (outside of Roose and Karstark) who has a distinct personality and readers should have any ties to coming into that chapter. This is probably why when adaptation decisions were made back in S1, the bannerman they decided to consolidate most of them into was Greatjon (the right decision). They of course, got screwed over by this once Clive Mantle couldn't commit again which was unfortunate but no use crying over split milk now.

I think what we've seen this season to compensate for the loss of the Greatjon is the conscious decision to give some of his characteristics and actions to the Blackfish. You can see see that Blackfish is much gruffer and more aggressive than his book counterpart and he even is the one who belts Karstark when he insults Robb, which is what the Greatjon did in the books.

So my guess is that, as it appears the Blackfish barring a last minute change of direction, will be attending the RW, the reason will be that he will be playing the Greatjon role. I could see him being restrained and subdued by multiple Frey's during the chaos. Maybe they even include the plotpoint where the Frey's try to get him hammered because they know he's the fiercest warrior of Robb's crew. You can make this change because it adheres to the Greatjon fate in the books but because you don't kill him, you can write him back into the story later on (he escapes when they are escorting him back to Riverrun as a prisoner or something like that, not very hard to do). I assume the Blackfish still has a semi-important role to play later in the story so you won't upset that plotpoint if you have him captured as the Greatjon was.

Dacey's death is memorable but I think it's mainly because she's a woman and she cries out for mercy before getting the axe and doesn't receive any. But if they're bringing Talisa to the RW (and I now think that the most likely of the scenarios is that she dies), then she can certainly fulfill the same function. And putting aside some of the snide insults of the bookreaders, Robb's pregnant bride is a more sympathetic character than an underdeveloped Dacey is and so that death (and that of Robb's unborn child) should be more dramatic. Knowing that we have the scene of Cat slapping someone (a Frey I would assume as in the books) I think they could certainly be using the Dacey sequence of events (which starts the massacre) with Talisa instead. To me, that's a good substitution in sacrificing a character who the audience is very familiar with.

We know they have cast Wendel Manderly which means he's not just an extra and will have a speaking part. If I had to guess, I'd imagine they'd introduce him as they arrive at the Twins as Robb's kind of personal guard (a Jory Cassel if you will). I could see him providing some kind of heroic gesture (like Smalljon flipping the table over Robb to shield him from the arrows) or sacrifice himself somehow. In any case, he'll die. Him being a Manderly will be important as we'll eventually be introduced to Wyman who will play a larger (pun intended) role and this will help address his motivation for revenge on the Frey's/Boltons.

To me, I don't think this particular complaint about the bannermen is as big of a deal as it's being made out to be. Clearly, the show hasn't talked about these characters but if they aren't going to be specialized and play a unique role, it's hard to justify including them just so they can be consistent with the books. I think the fans should set this aside and understand that the RW is almost exclusively about the demise of Robb and Cat and that should be the overwhelming focus. This is especially true on the show because they are never going to highlight the other minor Northern houses to the extent the books do so the fates of the men attached to those houses is not really important in this venue.

You have completely missed the point of those bannerman. What they are is representative of the North's allegiance to Robb. In the books, the Northern Lords, with rare exception like Ricard Karstark, were fiercely loyal to Robb. More than that, they were proud of him, proud to call him their King, and would follow him anywhere because they believed in him and his cause. SmallJon, Dacey, etc were just examples of them. It gave the reader hope that Robb and his forces could overcome their daunting odds, because he was a superior battle commander with the most loyal army. The reason why the RW was so devastating is because not only was Robb killed, so were most of these fiercely loyal bannerman.

In the show, Robb lost half of his man when the Karstarks left, and of the remain 1/2, some are loyal to Bolton. So basically Robb has a puny force now and has no loyal lords from the North that the audience can identify. Most of the TV audience have him pegged as doomed, it's not a matter of if but when to many of them for Robb to die so the shock of the RW is mostly gone for them, and the emotional sense of betrayal is gone because the show has it set up as the North revolting against Robb and the Starks. When in the books it was Bolton and Frey betraying the entire North.

The show producers will come up with a very dramatic and emotional scene I'm sure for the RW, but it will pale in comparison to the books because they have failed to set it up correctly. They wasted too much time in KL this season and did not spend nearly enough time with Robb/Catelyn and his campaign in the Riverlands. This season 3 culminating in the RW is supposed to be heavily focused on Robb/Catlelyn, Season 4 is supposed to be heavily focused on KL as that's where most of the action in the 2nd half of ASOS takes place. But they are so in love with the Lannisters/Tyrells and they have completely failed to develop a proper arc for the RW and spend most of season 3 away from that plot line.

Somebody counted and Catelyn has had fewer lines of dialogue this season than Bronn. Bronn for crying out loud. How can the RW be the climactic event of this season when Robb and Cat has had fewer scenes than Margaery Tyrell and Bronn? Can you imagine Baelor being a climatic episode of season 1 if we had barely seen Ned all season long?

I guarantee you that most of the TV reaction tomorrow is going to be "it was brutal, but not quite on the same level as Ned's death in season 1". Where as most of the book readers were hit far harder by the RW than Ned's death.

[PrinceOberynMartell]

I don't think the Blackfish would witness Robb and Catelyn getting murdered and let himself be taken prisoner.

I don't think the RW will have quite the same impact as Ned's beheading. Ned was the main protagonist. Catelyn and Robb don't carry the same weight. Also, Sean Bean was an actor that was loved by fantasy fans due to a previous role.

[Father of Dragons]

The intense chaotic number 16 happens through the slaughter, building up and becoming more powerful, and stops when someone grabs Cat's hair, followed by something like "No, don't cut my hair, Ned loves/loved my hair!"

-SLASH-

-Moment of silence and nothing on the screen-

-Rains (2?) starts to play as the credits roll-

[Rabid Grunt]

I guarantee you that most of the TV reaction tomorrow is going to be "it was brutal, but not quite on the same level as Ned's death in season 1". Where as most of the book readers were hit far harder by the RW than Ned's death.

Lets be honest, thats just wild speculation.

[teemo]

I'm so excited. And nervous. I can't sleep. I so hope they do it justice. I know I'm not D&D's biggest fan but I'm hoping they'll pull through here like with Ned's death.

[Targaryen Kaiser]

I'm so excited. And nervous. I can't sleep. I so hope they do it justice. I know I'm not D&D's biggest fan but I'm hoping they'll pull through here like with Ned's death.

I believe they will do. We can say whatever we want about D&D, but in the really "big" scenes of the series they have never let us down. My feeling is that we are going to watch one of the best scenes in television ever. Some hours left. :)

[Honourable Ser]

I have wanted to address the "they haven't built up the Northern bannermen so the RW will not be emotional enough" complaint for awhile so I'll do it now.

First off, the Northern bannermen of any note that die at the RW are in order: the Smalljon, Dacey Mormont and I suppose Wendel Manderly. The Greatjon is technically there but not involved at all in the massacre and is only mentioned well after the fact (plus he doesn't die, he just gets captured).

In terms of the 3 bannermen mentioned, my memory might be hazy but I don't believe any of them had been "built up" in the books prior to the RW to any significant degree. I don't even think any of them had any lines in the books before they got to the wedding (maybe a stray one here or there, who knows?). I'm pretty sure the Smalljon never uttered a word throughout his brief time in the book universe. The ONLY reason that readers remember these individuals is because of the way they went out at the RW and Cat's descriptions of their actions and deaths. The Greatjon is really the only bannerman (outside of Roose and Karstark) who has a distinct personality and readers should have any ties to coming into that chapter. This is probably why when adaptation decisions were made back in S1, the bannerman they decided to consolidate most of them into was Greatjon (the right decision). They of course, got screwed over by this once Clive Mantle couldn't commit again which was unfortunate but no use crying over split milk now.

I think what we've seen this season to compensate for the loss of the Greatjon is the conscious decision to give some of his characteristics and actions to the Blackfish. You can see see that Blackfish is much gruffer and more aggressive than his book counterpart and he even is the one who belts Karstark when he insults Robb, which is what the Greatjon did in the books.

So my guess is that, as it appears the Blackfish barring a last minute change of direction, will be attending the RW, the reason will be that he will be playing the Greatjon role. I could see him being restrained and subdued by multiple Frey's during the chaos. Maybe they even include the plotpoint where the Frey's try to get him hammered because they know he's the fiercest warrior of Robb's crew. You can make this change because it adheres to the Greatjon fate in the books but because you don't kill him, you can write him back into the story later on (he escapes when they are escorting him back to Riverrun as a prisoner or something like that, not very hard to do). I assume the Blackfish still has a semi-important role to play later in the story so you won't upset that plotpoint if you have him captured as the Greatjon was.

Dacey's death is memorable but I think it's mainly because she's a woman and she cries out for mercy before getting the axe and doesn't receive any. But if they're bringing Talisa to the RW (and I now think that the most likely of the scenarios is that she dies), then she can certainly fulfill the same function. And putting aside some of the snide insults of the bookreaders, Robb's pregnant bride is a more sympathetic character than an underdeveloped Dacey is and so that death (and that of Robb's unborn child) should be more dramatic. Knowing that we have the scene of Cat slapping someone (a Frey I would assume as in the books) I think they could certainly be using the Dacey sequence of events (which starts the massacre) with Talisa instead. To me, that's a good substitution in sacrificing a character who the audience is very familiar with.

We know they have cast Wendel Manderly which means he's not just an extra and will have a speaking part. If I had to guess, I'd imagine they'd introduce him as they arrive at the Twins as Robb's kind of personal guard (a Jory Cassel if you will). I could see him providing some kind of heroic gesture (like Smalljon flipping the table over Robb to shield him from the arrows) or sacrifice himself somehow. In any case, he'll die. Him being a Manderly will be important as we'll eventually be introduced to Wyman who will play a larger (pun intended) role and this will help address his motivation for revenge on the Frey's/Boltons.

To me, I don't think this particular complaint about the bannermen is as big of a deal as it's being made out to be. Clearly, the show hasn't talked about these characters but if they aren't going to be specialized and play a unique role, it's hard to justify including them just so they can be consistent with the books. I think the fans should set this aside and understand that the RW is almost exclusively about the demise of Robb and Cat and that should be the overwhelming focus. This is especially true on the show because they are never going to highlight the other minor Northern houses to the extent the books do so the fates of the men attached to those houses is not really important in this venue.

Great post, completely agree with you!

[Arkash]

It will easily be understood that Robb's loyal bannermen were slaughtered, a line of dialogue by Walder Frey or Tywin next episode would suffice.

[Nick_Scryer]

Oh God, today is the day :(

Dreading it but also so excited for it. What a strange feeling. The Whole episode should be exciting, can't wait to see some Queenscrown.

I'm also really looking forward to seeing people's reactions and the preview for ep10 so I can safely judge where the season will end for other characters.

[Ser Hippie]

Woke up early this morning after a terrifying dream where "Boy's" real name was revealed at the end of the episode through an elaborate song and dance number.

No more two week breaks, please.

[mystikherb]

Haha nothing like a week delay to make fans go absolutely bat shit for the next episode, especially when it happens to be arguably the most important one yet XD I'm so frakkin' stoked, though... I too had a dream about it, but it was just me watching it. Just about 14 hours til it airs...

[Tywin's bastard]

Yes, it's been a great anticipation builder to have a week off for the big episode of the season. I never watch previews as I don't see the point in spoiling episodes when they are just a week away but it was a little harder not to watch this preview as the need for a fix started growing during the second week. I held out though.

[mystikherb]

I don't think the RW will have quite the same impact as Ned's beheading. Ned was the main protagonist. Catelyn and Robb don't carry the same weight. Also, Sean Bean was an actor that was loved by fantasy fans due to a previous role.

You're right, they don't really carry the same weight that Ned/Sean Bean did. And I don't think it will have the same impact either, but I don't think it will necessarily have less of an impact. True, by this point tv fans know that there are no single stars in this show, so a big character death will be less shocking, but keep in mind that book readers went through the same thing and most book readers cringe more from hearing the phrase "Red Wedding" than from hearing about Ned dying. It's a completely different kind of scene from Ned's death, and is made effective for entirely different reasons. Ned was a huge character who didn't deserve to die and had a very sad and effective execution in front of everyone. However, with the Red Wedding, it's not just a character death (or two, or a couple thousand) that we're facing. This is the utter decimation and defeat of the North, and that is something no one who hasn't read the books is expecting to see so soon. That on top of Catelyn watching her last child die before her eyes then lose it herself and die in her own personal hell is way worse than Ned's beheading. I think that there will be different reactions, but just wait; We will definitely see some Unsullied lose their shit over this ;]

[Mikaele]

Today's the day of reckoning.

Agree with everyone saying the impact and reaction to the RW won't be as intense as Ned or even anywhere near we anticipate. First season, Ned dominated screen time and while there aren't any single star, I don't think Robb and Cat have gotten enough screen time to give them the proper emotional impact the RW deserves. Non-boook readers will be shocked, upset, and amazed at what happens tonight...I'll be devestated for having to relive the whole damn thing.

I have been talking Robb up for a long ass time now just to get people to be more invested in him. I mean the kid's Neds son, leader of the Starks and the King in the North, he's pretty awesome based on that alone.