The Jon Snow Reread Project II AGOT-ACOK

[Lyanna Stark]

Along those lines there is also "I do not choose the road I ride" Jon denying his 'kingship' to Gilly, hearkening back to the whole business of the Kingsroad being the road not taken. I'll make a fuss of this because GRRM is careful to talk about tracks, paths and trails when describing how the night's watch are travelling while they are north of the Wall and Gilly as a Wildling won't know what a road is.

Ah yes, good catch. It's really highlighted when Jon admits to Robb being king, but that Jon is not even a lord and has no power. He chose to serve, not to rule.

On the other hand, we have Stannis' "cart before the horse" and that to rule is to serve the realm, and save the realm. Despite Mormont's slightly libertarian take, the Nights Watch is still after saving the realm, even if at this point they are not 100% clear on from what.

sorta kinda? How great an acquaintance with fat pink masts and breast milk is required for people to be in a relationship these days? :laugh:

:blushing: :lol:

I was more thinking formally, since at least currently, Sam cannot take Gilly as his wife, or really admit to the relationship publicly. Not to mention that he was adamant it shouldn't happen and had to be told pretty forcefully by the lovely gentleman on the ship to go do the deed that resulted in the fat pink mast!

ETA- Would have love seeing the look on Bowen Marsh's face when Mormont told Craster (one of the worst forms of wildings whatsoever) if he wanted to be escorted south to the Wall

Oh good grief yes! To be a fly on the Wall for that one.

[Lummel]

... This made me laugh so much...

Glad to hear it, we are always at your service in this thread :laugh:

Ah yes, good catch. It's really highlighted when Jon admits to Robb being king, but that Jon is not even a lord and has no power. He chose to serve, not to rule.

On the other hand, we have Stannis' "cart before the horse" and that to rule is to serve the realm, and save the realm...

The nature of rulership is something that GRRM is examining through one POV after another. At one end of the spectrum you have the likes of King Bob for whom rulership is complete irresponsibility and having other people to do, well, everything for you. Jon and Daenerys are tending towards the other end of the spectrum - rulership for them is an obligation and an act of service towards those you are responsible over. Another dimension to that debate over rulership is the issue of legitimacy. This is interesting with Jon because he is of the blood of the Starks and maybe of the blood of the Targaryens in which case he can claim traditional authority - but he is, apparently (or debatably depending on where you stand), born on the bastard side of the blanket, but then there is this whole business of acclamation or Charismatic authority. People increasingly vest their support in him and regard him as their leader. Ultimately once elected Lord Commander Jon will have legal-rational authority too - Full House. A king in all but name.

Craster by contrast is a tyrant - ruling by fear. A very odd set up - given what we see of Wildling culture later.

[Lady of Long Lake]

Both women come to Jon seeking the protection of a "true king" in the theme of Sansa's "true knights." Both kneel before Jon, a gesture to a King, clutching cloaks of the Nights Watch.

Beautiful comparison and find!!

On the southwest, he found an open gate flanked by a pair of animal skulls on high poles: a bear to one side, a ram to the other.

I wonder if this is a symbol of Mormont and Craster dying in the future. Mormont's a bear from Bear isle and Craster wears sheeps furs, he has a sheephold and he loves mutton.

Who's this one now? He has the look of a Stark. " A bastard, is it?" Craster looked Jon up and down.

I find that very weird. Looking people up and down can be a sexual thing or it can be a "searching" thing- like you are trying to find similarities in the builds and physical attributes while you are comparing two people. Craster has met Benjen a few times so we know he knows the shape of Jon's uncle but I wonder why he needs to look Jon up and down to verify it?

Maybe it's an epeen moment for Craster and he's just comparing his own physical prowess to an offspring of the famous Starks. Jon notes how powerful and fit he looks so perhaps it's just a vanity thing when Craster sizes Jon up.

Sorry for my raven fixation :) but the raven utters a word in this chapter followed by an exclamation point and once again, he is echoing a word that was not said vehemently with an exclamation point by the human. Here's the list of 5 instances:

"Live!"

"Die!"

"Burn!"

"Snow!"

"King!"

"Burn!" was the anomaly and happened during the deadly wight attack. If you put the other 4 words together you have "Live! Die! Snow! King!" I think that's neat.

[Winterfellian]

Ragnorak,great chapter analysis as usual. I agree with Lummel, your post reminds us how much there is to admire in these books.

Reading this chapter and Rag’s analysis it strikes me how much the idea of leadership is latently present in this chapter, especially in the sense of disillusionment towards one’s leaders. One of the early styles of leadership we are introduced to in the novels involves seeking responsibility and taking responsibility for your actions. In other words, this form of leadership involves to take the initiative in the absence of Orders and to accept the responsibility for your actions. Jon’s memory of the day of Gared’s beheading is a nod to these style of leadership- his Father’s style of leadership.

But in line with the disillusionment theme in this chapter none of the characters are ready to embrace this form of leadership.

On one hand Jon is confronted with the overall behavior of the Old Bear and the rangers towards Craster. They are willing not to take upon themselves the responsibility for Craster’s actions to the point they prefer not to even talk about it. They contend themselves to adopt a means justify the end mentality and conclude to let other people be their own saviors.

Sam is willing to seek the moral responsibility over Gilly but not to fully take it as demonstrated by him sending her to Jon instead. For Sam, Jon is a leader and to find out that he wasn’t willing to help Gilly was a blow of sorts, hence the reproachful look he cast him when they meet again.

Going back to Jon, despite being the LC’s pet, he is not fully looking for responsibility, or at least not in a great scale. Sam is the one who acts as the catalyst to appoint him the responsibility by sending Gilly to him, which he ends up refusing.

I look at Jon’s I do not choose the road I walk line as a nod to the road not taken but also within the scope of the idea of leadership. Ned’s teachings are still very present in his mind, but in the end he’s forced to walk the road the Old Bear is walking- “we cannot set the world to right. The NW has other wars to fight”. He has yet to develop a true style of leadership of his own, yet the influence of these 2 men will be in evidence in Jon’s approach to power later on.

Finallly, this caught my attention while reading- after Ghost ate Gilly’s rabbits we have the following exchange:

“The Watch will make good for them.” Jon had no coin of his own or he would have offered it to her…though he was not sure what good a few coppers or even a silver piece will do her beyond the Wall.

So much for Jon’s idea of treasure! :laugh:

[Summer314]

Hi, I wanted to congratulate everyone for this great reread! Thank you! :D

I would also like to comment something that seemed interesting to me in this chapter. Lord Commander Mormont addresses Craster as 'my lord' even if he's not, like the Starks do with the mountain clans. I wondered if it might be a coincidence or if there might be something else on it...

[Odon]

Hi, I wanted to congratulate everyone for this great reread! Thank you! :D

I would also like to comment something that seemed interesting to me in this chapter. Lord Commander Mormont addresses Craster as 'my lord' even if he's not, like the Starks do with the mountain clans. I wondered if it might be a coincidence or if there might be something else on it...

He's just buttering Craster up, like when he gives the axe as a gift.

[Winterfellian]

Hi, I wanted to congratulate everyone for this great reread! Thank you! :D

I would also like to comment something that seemed interesting to me in this chapter. Lord Commander Mormont addresses Craster as 'my lord' even if he's not, like the Starks do with the mountain clans. I wondered if it might be a coincidence or if there might be something else on it...

Welcome to the forums and the reread!

About your observation, I think is about buttering Craster up. I noticed the Old Bear first use it when the discussion of Mance's whereabouts is still pending.

This form of addressing someone seems to come naturally for people south of the Wall. Interesting enough is that Craster doesn't balk up at the notion, which might seem queer for a wilding. We see instances of southerners like Donal Noye or Qhorin refusing the term when addressed as such. Mance laughs later on when Jon call him your Grace, but not Craster. I think it speaks for Craster's disassociation with the ways of the "Free Folk", we see in this chapter and it ties with Craster's tyrannic ways and concept of freedom to some extent by setting him apart from some of the other wildings we meet later on.

[Summer314]

He's just buttering Craster up, like when he gives the axe as a gift.

Welcome to the forums and the reread!

About your observation, I think is about buttering Craster up. I noticed the Old Bear first use it when the discussion of Mance's whereabouts is still pending.

This form of addressing someone seems to come naturally for people south of the Wall. Interesting enough is that Craster doesn't balk up at the notion, which might seem queer for a wilding. We see instances of southerners like Donal Noye or Qhorin refusing the term when addressed as such. Mance laughs later on when Jon call him your Grace, but not Craster. I think it speaks for Craster's disassociation with the ways of the "Free Folk", we see in this chapter and it ties with Craster's tyrannic ways and concept of freedom to some extent by setting him apart from some of the other wildings we meet later on.

Thank you! You're probably right. Craster certainly didn't mind being a bastard himself to insult Jon for the same reason, which would be another dissasociation from his origins. I think by now Jon has made progress with making peace with being (apparently at least) a bastard. Talking with Sam he even told him he could say 'bastard' and that he didn't mind, however in that case he was in friendly company.

I'm not a native English speaker, so I apologize beforehand for the mistakes I might make :) I edited the post to add a bit of text.

[Lummel]

I wonder if this is a symbol of Mormont and Craster dying in the future. Mormont's a bear from Bear isle and Craster wears sheeps furs, he has a sheephold and he loves mutton.

Nice detail! Dolorous Edd says "I wonder how long that bear's been nailed up on that gate, and what Craster had there before we came halloing". Which I suppose we can read in a couple of ways - did he have something worse up there before, like the head of Benjen, or was the choice of a Bear skull a deliberate warning to Mormont?

Who's this one now? He has the look of a Stark. " A bastard, is it?" Craster looked Jon up and down.

I find that very weird. Looking people up and down can be a sexual thing or it can be a "searching" thing- like you are trying to find similarities in the builds and physical attributes while you are comparing two people. Craster has met Benjen a few times so we know he knows the shape of Jon's uncle but I wonder why he needs to look Jon up and down to verify it?

Maybe it's an epeen moment for Craster and he's just comparing his own physical prowess to an offspring of the famous Starks. Jon notes how powerful and fit he looks so perhaps it's just a vanity thing when Craster sizes Jon up.

I thought it was a dominance thing, but I'm happy to start a new slash/fic rumour if you want!

Sorry for my raven fixation :) but the raven utters a word in this chapter followed by an exclamation point and once again, he is echoing a word that was not said vehemently with an exclamation point by the human. Here's the list of 5 instances:

"Live!"

"Die!"

"Burn!"

"Snow!"

"King!"

"Burn!" was the anomaly and happened during the deadly wight attack. If you put the other 4 words together you have "Live! Die! Snow! King!" I think that's neat.

It is a good fixation, I'm glad you are paying attention to that bird! :)

...Reading this chapter and Rag’s analysis it strikes me how much the idea of leadership is latently present in this chapter, especially in the sense of disillusionment towards one’s leaders. One of the early styles of leadership we are introduced to in the novels involves seeking responsibility and taking responsibility for your actions. In other words, this form of leadership involves to take the initiative in the absence of Orders and to accept the responsibility for your actions. Jon’s memory of the day of Gared’s beheading is a nod to these style of leadership- his Father’s style of leadership...

Jon saying "My father once told me that some men are not worth having...a bannerman who is brutal or unjust dishonors his liege lord as well as himself." OK thinking across POVs what a contrast to Tywin (a task for every tool) or Stannis (who'll take anybody who doesn't stand in his way)!

I can see three different contrasting ideas of lordship in this chapter: Craster style, Mormont mode and the Jon road. I suppose this is about Jon finding his way? Craster was/is the kind of thing that you have to decide how to deal with as a lord commander, although on the other hand the rangers seem to be doing their own things and knowing their own thing north of the Wall anyway. Interesting the difference between Benjen and The Ned implied here, perhaps as wide as between The Ned and Brandon?

Hi, I wanted to congratulate everyone for this great reread! Thank you! :D

I would also like to comment something that seemed interesting to me in this chapter. Lord Commander Mormont addresses Craster as 'my lord' even if he's not, like the Starks do with the mountain clans. I wondered if it might be a coincidence or if there might be something else on it...

Hi! Welcome! Glad you're enjoying it. I wonder if there is something over to Mormont calling Craster a Lord too...

He's just buttering Craster up, like when he gives the axe as a gift.

Maybe

Thank you! You're probably right. Craster certainly didn't mind being a bastard himself to insult Jon for the same reason, which would be another dissasociation from his origins. I think by now Jon has made progress with making peace with being (apparently at least) a bastard...

I remember in ASOS that Craster gets very angry when somebody calls him a bastard, so I think he is using it as an insult here.

Isn't Tormund called the Lord of the Ruddy Hall? Or am I misremembering. Craster calls Mormont Lord Crow, so there is a sense of a rough equality of rank between them. Craster is more like a lord than other Wildlings, don't his daughter-sister-wives kneel to him (metaphorically, I don't want to suggest anything lewd here)? "My roots are sunk deep" he says to Mormont, which is odd since his father is alleged to have been a night's watchman his literal roots must be shallower than most beyond the Wall, unless he means something more spiritual and is alluding to his relationship to the cold gods?

The deep roots remind me of Winterfell, deep dark secrets maybe...

"Jon remembered Old Nan's tales of the savage folk who drank blood from human skulls. Craster seemed to be drinking a thin yellow beer from a chipped stone cup. Perhaps he had not heard the stories." Is this one of the rare examples of Jon's sense of humour! :laugh:

[Yuki_no_Jon]

I would like to talk about something that I haven't seen discussed before: I have noticed that Jon POV gives in some instances more space to evaluations of male beauty than of female beauty.

I do not wish to make any claims as to what that might mean, but to open the subject and draw attention to it in the Jon reread.

I will ilustrate it with several scenes:

The feast in Winterfell:

Cersei: She was as beautiful as men said. A jeweled tiara gleamed amidst her long golden hair, its emeralds a perfect match for the green of her eyes.

Joffrey: He was twelve, younger than Jon or Robb, to Jon's vast dismay. Prince Joffrey had his sister's hair and his mother's deep green eyes. A thick tangle of blond curls dripped down past his golden choker and high velvet collar.

Jaime: Ser Jaime Lannister was twin to Queen Cersei; tall and golden, with flashing green eyes and a smile that cut like a knife. bla bla clothes bla bla lion of his house bla bla kingslayer Jon found it hard to look away from him.

This made me ask if Jon was at least aesthetically more attracted to beautiful men than women, though it could be argued that he doesn't like Cersei's personality. But then I reread the Red Wedding and continued from there in ASoS and found this:

Satin: He was pretty as a girl with his dark eyes, soft skin, and raven’s ringlets. ... “It’s cold.” Satin stood with his hands tucked into his armpits under his cloak. His cheeks were bright red. ... Satin’s face was a ghastly white. ...

Jon finds Satin pretty and uses more poetical language to describe his actions than he does for other NW brothers. That Marsh might have noticed the appreciative gazes makes me want to giggle and facepalm at the same time.

And then I went looking and found the scene where Mance is introduced:

Val: a pretty young women

Styr: He was straight as a spear, all long wiry muscle, clean-shaved, bald, with a strong straight nose and deepset grey eyes. He might evenhave been comely if he’d had ears, but he had lost both along the way, whether to frostbite or some enemy’s knife Jon could not tell.

Mance: The King-beyond-the-Wall looked nothing like a king, nor even much a wildling. He was of middling height, slender, sharp-faced, with shrewd brown eyes and long brown hair that had gone mostly to grey. bla bla bla clothes bla bla no jewels

- the king should be as comely as Jaime it would seem :D but it made me wonder, he was judging a man for comeliness but gave us no description of Val.

I don't want to draw any conclusion or make a thesis based on this, but rather to open the question of who Jon likes to look at and what in a person he finds attractive. We will have more material in the upcoming books and I would very much like to talk about it when we get there.

His sexuality;

His aesthetical preferences;

His IMO fixation on nice, curly hair :laugh: ;

Beauty as a sign of kingship and how Jon's ideas evolve with experience.

I haven't read the full thread (yet) but as for the specific comment, I couldn't help but say:

in this time, women had no power! despite the fact that some amongst them (like Cercei or Margery) tried to play at the game of thrones, their "place" is always "lower" than that of men... just like how Cercei was humiliated at ADWD... I suppose no man would have suffered sth similar despite his actions...

so, in my view, those more detailed descriptions could possibly just mean that Jon was paying more attention to the males not in trems of beauty, but in an effort to characterise them. As you may remember, even from Jon I (the feast at winderfell) he had "seen through" the Lannisters. Not only was he the only one who aknwoledged Tyrion, but also he saw through Joffrey (when talking to Arya)... he also had the forsight to give Arya the Needle... why??? probably because he saw in what place his little sister was going and among which people....

[Ser Pollo Loco]

Isn't Tormund called the Lord of the Ruddy Hall? Or am I misremembering.

I think it was Mead king of Ruddy Hall, either way i think it's associated with drinking, tormund says he's not the same man he was at Ruddy Hall in Dance

[Isildur's Mane]

Sorry for the late post, had a hectic week...

Jon III ACOK

Summary

<snip>

Great write up Rgnorak, and to everyone who added their thoughts, good job! It was a good read.

Jon starts to realise exactly what his (life long?) dream of being a ranger actually entails. It's wet, dirty and even the famous sights are 'shit'.

Here we see Jon actually eating something with his brothers, without being interupted. It's not the first time, but it is the first in a long time (unless I missed one in the most recent chapters). It feels... refreshing. But I believe it is to emphasise that he doesn't want to eat any of Craster's food.

@Lummel, I think you are right about his humour here.

ETA: I liked the connection with Jon waking up in the frost to Sansa's Snow Castle.

ETA again: I don't like what the writier's did on the show when they took away Jon's reasonings to Gilly about not being able to take her because a) they are going to go look for the Others and their wights b ) they are going further north before they go south again c) they may not go back via Craster's and d) they won't be able to hide her from the rest of the NW.

By doing that they made him look like a mean, heartless bastard (sorry for going off track - again)

[Elba the Intoner]

"My roots are sunk deep" he says to Mormont, which is odd since his father is alleged to have been a night's watchman his literal roots must be shallower than most beyond the Wall, unless he means something more spiritual and is alluding to his relationship to the cold gods?

This is the sense I got about Craster given that his mother was a Wildling. It's interesting that his father was a Night's Watchman and his mother was a Wildling because the role he is playing is between both worlds. He is an uneasy ally of the Night's Watch but he's a Wildling but he's not towing the line of the other Wildlings. He doesn't go off to join Mance for example. There's also the discussion of Craster between Jon and Mormont implying that Craster could be a cross breed with an Other which continues this theme of him being between two worlds. With the comments earlier about how there's a cold smell about Craster and Jon's associating him with the stories of Wildlings who lay with Others, I definitely got the feel that we are being given strong hints that it could be true. In fact the raven speaks up here, muttering "Yes, yes, yes." as if to say, you're right Jon.

[Lummel]

...There's also the discussion of Craster between Jon and Mormont implying that Craster could be a cross breed with an Other which continues this theme of him being between two worlds. With the comments earlier about how there's a cold smell about Craster and Jon's associating him with the stories of Wildlings who lay with Others, I definitely got the feel that we are being given strong hints that it could be true. In fact the raven speaks up here, muttering "Yes, yes, yes." as if to say, you're right Jon.

I agree entirely about the idea of Craster as being between two worlds, there is clearly something very odd about him. He's the most incestuous character in the series, which suggests a blood obsession - unless it is all about dominance -. His ways can only have come from his Wildling mother unless the worship of these cold gods was something that he 'invented' or 'discovered' himself. Is he trying to keep her blood line pure? Or was his Night's watchman father somebody significant?

Do you think that Craster is descended from an Other or that he himself slept with one or more of them?

[Winterfellian]

Elba’s line about Craster situation between two worlds got me thinking. It strikes me that we ought to contemplate the attitude and actions of both these worlds towards Craster. I think these two very different cultures share a collective blame when it comes to letting him get away with all he does. Is clear that Craster is pretty much a despicable individual by the standards of both wildings and NW, yet none of them do anything to stop him. Why?

I think that for the NW, is all about neutrality and of means satisfying an end. Their war is another and they are not there to set the world to rights. As for the wildings it seems that Craster life style is a byproduct of the inherent “freedom” that comes from being a wilding. At the end of the day, Craster is no one’s man and no one is ready to claim responsibility to stop him.

Going back to the NW, if Maester Aemon’s speech encouraged us to analyze the individual cost for the price of choosing neutrality, the NW’s attitude towards Craster invites us to analyze what happens when is other people who directly paid this price. For Aemon neutrality was the hardest choice, in the case of Craster and the NW it seems that is actually the easiest one. In the latter, it is a case where neutrality helps the oppressor, not the victim. I bring this out because learning to differentiate these “types” of neutrality will play a big part in Jon’s decisions later on.

[Lady of Long Lake]

Going back to the NW, if Maester Aemon’s speech encouraged us to analyze the individual cost for the price of choosing neutrality, the NW’s attitude towards Craster invites us to analyze what happens when is other people who directly paid this price. For Aemon neutrality was the hardest choice, in the case of Craster and the NW it seems that is actually the easiest one. In the latter, it is a case where neutrality helps the oppressor, not the victim. I bring this out because learning to differentiate these “types” of neutrality will play a big part in Jon’s decisions later on.

Your whole post was excellent but love that part the most! I hadn't thought of it like this until I read your great post. The Watch's main goal in life is to protect the realms of men from the Others. How ironic is it that the Watch looks the other way when Craster gives his"offerings" to the wights:( Jeor says Craster serves "crueler Gods than you and I. Those sons are his offerings, his prayers, if you will". He's not referring to the Old Gods that all the rest of the wildlings worship, but the "Cold Gods" that Gilly mentions.

[Onna Lewyys]

GOD I LOVE THIS THREAD. YOU ALL ARE SO GREAT. (Hi! I'm so excited to join you!)

Of course I've always acknowledged this chapter as Jon's first major moral dilemma, his first questioning of what it truly means to be honorable, and what it truly means to serve. That's really the heart of his entire narrative, and it's cool to go back and see its genesis here.

I agree with Winterfellian that "I do not choose the road I ride" reflects Jon's status as someone currently without an official leadership style or position. As Mormont's steward and still a "green" boy, he is only a subordinate at this point. While he does challenge the Old Bear at the end of the chapter, Jon still defers to him as his superior. But I love that Jon's refusal to eat Craster's food is his way of asserting himself and his own morality the only way he can. It doesn't mean anything in the larger scheme of things, but it means something to Jon (and to Gilly).

I also really love Ragnorak's observation of Jon as a "true king"! I had completely forgotten that Gilly alluded to him as a king! I've always seen him as a natural leader, and Lummel is right, a lot of people do seem to instinctively look to him in that regard. And while I am an adamant believer in R+L=J, I love to think that if Jon were to somehow end up on the IT in the end, it would have absolutely nothing to do with his Targaryen blood or name and everything to do with his inherent character.

"M'lord--"

"I'm no lord."

But others had come crowding round, drawn by the woman's scream and the crash of the rabbit hutch. "Don't you believe him, girl," called out Lark the Sisterman, a ranger mean as a cur. "That's Lord Snow himself."

"Bastard of Winterfell and brother to kings," mocked Chett...

This might be a stretch, but this bit kind of reminds me of Jesus in the Bible, how others would refer to him as Christ and such, but he wouldn't himself. Like when Pilate asked if he was king of the Jews, and Jesus said, "It is you who call me that." And of course both are also later killed by their own people (Jon's resurrection TBA). So perhaps a subtle reference to Jon being the messianic Azor Ahai?

I also have to comment on how much the NW has lost its way, as this chapter establishes. Jon and Mormont both talk about how their war is against the wildlings, yet at this point we as the readers are already aware of the very real threat of the Others, going all the way back to the Prologue of AGOT. And here we see the NW allying with a man who allies himself with these horrible beings! Though Mormont says, "We cannot set the world to rights. That is not our purpose," we know better, and in his heart so does Jon.

[Lummel]

...This might be a stretch, but this bit kind of reminds me of Jesus in the Bible, how others would refer to him as Christ and such, but he wouldn't himself. Like when Pilate asked if he was king of the Jews, and Jesus said, "It is you who call me that." And of course both are also later killed by their own people (Jon's resurrection TBA). So perhaps a subtle reference to Jon being the messianic Azor Ahai?...

Welcome!

Well that would fit in with what we were discussing in the first thread (starts round about here and continues for a few pages). But be careful when you start to walk down this road! Just the other day I was reading about The Ned executing Gared and thought to myself that The Ned was the old law :uhoh:

[SeanF]

I'd never noticed how many references to Jon in the series mirror references to Jesus Christ in the Bible, until people started pointing them out here.

[SeanF]

Glad to hear it, we are always at your service in this thread :laugh:

The nature of rulership is something that GRRM is examining through one POV after another. At one end of the spectrum you have the likes of King Bob for whom rulership is complete irresponsibility and having other people to do, well, everything for you. Jon and Daenerys are tending towards the other end of the spectrum - rulership for them is an obligation and an act of service towards those you are responsible over. Another dimension to that debate over rulership is the issue of legitimacy. This is interesting with Jon because he is of the blood of the Starks and maybe of the blood of the Targaryens in which case he can claim traditional authority - but he is, apparently (or debatably depending on where you stand), born on the bastard side of the

blanket, but then there is this whole business of acclamation or Charismatic authority. People increasingly vest their support in him and regard him as their leader. Ultimately once elected Lord Commander Jon will have legal-rational authority too - Full House. A king in all but name.

Craster by contrast is a tyrant - ruling by fear. A very odd set up - given what we see of Wildling culture later.

Another type of leader is Jaime who deliberately rejects great power when it's offered to him, as Lord of Casterly Rock and/or Hand. That can be seen either as a dereliction of duty, or someone who sensibly recognises his own limitations.