Secret Targaryens

[Castellan]

One I can think of off the top of my head is Jaime's dream in Riverrun where he talks with the Silent Sister who is probably his mother Joanna Lannister (Feast for Crows). When you cross reference Jaime's dream with the fact that Aerys lusted for Joanna Lannister, it really doesn't seem too crazy, but again it is all how you interpret it.

Its not probably his mother it is his mother and it is not a silent sister at all - she appears in the same way Cersei did in actuality when he was standing vigil at the bier of his father - because he is having a dream. In the dream he wonders who is coming, thinks it might be a silent sister, then mistakes her for Cersei, then realises who she is. I can't see any relation whatsover between that dream and the fact that Aerys wanted Joanna.

[mattah84]

Its not probably his mother it is his mother and it is not a silent sister at all - she appears in the same way Cersei did in actuality when he was standing vigil at the bier of his father - because he is having a dream. In the dream he wonders who is coming, thinks it might be a silent sister, then mistakes her for Cersei, then realises who she is. I can't see any relation whatsover between that dream and the fact that Aerys wanted Joanna.

The relation is that Joanna Lannister could be hinting to Jaime in the dream that Tywin was denied a son who was a great knight and a daughter who was the queen because Jaime and cersei might be Aerys'. Not saying it is definite but that is one way the dream could be interpreted.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Varys has a shaved head like Egg.

Everybody knows that none of the Lannister children are Tywin's. This is based on things like the dragon dreams, the liberties Aerys took in bedding at Tywin's wedding and some other things as well.

Honestly, every character is a hidden Targ unless proven otherwise.

That woulda been a whole heckava lotta liberty!

[Lost Melnibonean]

There's a surprising amount of evidence to make the argument that Tyrion is Aerys' son, as well, I don't understand why people are so quick to brush it off (or get so defensive).

The obvious lusting of Joanna by Aerys and the First Night comment

Mismatched eyes is a Targ trait

With visions/dream (Moqorro telling Tyrion he rides a dragon, Tyrion dreaming he is Maelys the Monstrous, Tyrion having dreams of dragons as s child)

Tyrion obsession with fire and dragons in general

Tywins words ("Since I cant prove youre not mine" & "You are no son of mine", etc)

Multiple references to Tryion being a "Giant" & Robert Arryn saying he wants to see him fly

Theres a lot more out there, I'm not saying its a definite but there are definitely clues left by GRRM, whether its a Red Herring or it isnt.

What would first night have to do with tyrion? That would have been a very very long first night.

[Lord Freypie]

Technically Tyrion, Jaime and Cersei may only be secret Waters or Hill, as Joanna didn't married Aerys.

So I agree, Jon is probably the only hidden Targaryan.

[Dr. Pepper]

There's a surprising amount of evidence to make the argument that Tyrion is Aerys' son, as well, I don't understand why people are so quick to brush it off (or get so defensive).

The obvious lusting of Joanna by Aerys and the First Night comment

Tyrion was born at least 8 years later.

Mismatched eyes is a Targ trait

Since when? Euron has mismatched eyes. Is he a Targaryen?

With visions/dream (Moqorro telling Tyrion he rides a dragon, Tyrion dreaming he is Maelys the Monstrous, Tyrion having dreams of dragons as s child)

Moqorro said nothing of the sort. He says he is a shadow snarling amidst the dragons. Bran had a dream about dragons, too.

Tyrion obsession with fire and dragons in general

Dragons are the most powerful imagery around. Tyrion wants to be powerful.

Tywins words ("Since I cant prove youre not mine" & "You are no son of mine", etc)

Tywin also disowned Jaime when Jaime didn't do what he wanted.

Multiple references to Tryion being a "Giant" & Robert Arryn saying he wants to see him fly

Funny, Tywin is also called a small man with a great shadow, or as Genna says, "Tywin was big even when he was little."

[A Crow Come Over]

What would first night have to do with tyrion? That would have been a very very long first night.

At Tywin & Joanna's wedding Aerys made a comment that he was mad that First Night was abolished, establishing his lust for her.

[Corvo Attano]

J/C/T are not Targaryens. Do you really think that if Joanna was raped by Aerys, she wouldn't tell her husband? And if she did, do you really think Tywin would just sit idly by and not tale any action?

The Tyrion part of the theory is just a weak attempt to absolve him of kinslaying. And people seemed to have interpreted a single (metaphorical) remark by Genna to be conclusive evidence that Jaime must be a Targ.

If Tyrion wasn't Tywin's son, why the hell would GRRM have invested that much time in their relationship?

[A Crow Come Over]

Tyrion was born at least 8 years later.

I didn't say he was conceived on the wedding night, the first night comment means he lusted for Joanna, even Selmy backs this up

Since when? Euron has mismatched eyes. Is he a Targaryen?

I guess I should have seen different colored pupils, Euron has a solid black eye as I recall. Shiara Seastar is another famous Targ bastard who had different colored pupils

Moqorro said nothing of the sort. He says he is a shadow snarling amidst the dragons. Bran had a dream about dragons, too.

"Dragons," Moqorro said in the Common Tongue of Westeros... "Dragons old and young, true and false, bright and dark. And you. A small man with a big shadow, snarling in the midst of all."

The only dragon Bran saw was thru Summers eyes, I can't find any passage where he was "dreaming" of dragons.

Dragons are the most powerful imagery around. Tyrion wants to be powerful.

Dragons almost always refer to Targs in this series, not just general power.

Tywin also disowned Jaime when Jaime didn't do what he wanted.

Fair enough, but as far as I remember, there wasnt attempt to kill Jaime on Tywins part (placing in the front of the van & trial)

Funny, Tywin is also called a small man with a great shadow, or as Genna says, "Tywin was big even when he was little."

Dont recall the shadow reference but Genna comment is interesting.

[Penguin king]

I'm a big fan of A+J = C+J. Jaime and Cersei just make so much sense as Targaryens. Their incestious relationship, their beauty, Cersei's decent into paranoia and pyromania... I'm not saying that passes for anything close to evidence, and I agree that having secret Targs under every unturned stone is a little silly, but it's still a pet theory of mine.

[FaSome]

Ghost=secret targ

Jon is to mislead the reader

[Corvo Attano]

I'm a big fan of A+J = C+J. Jaime and Cersei just make so much sense as Targaryens. Their incestious relationship, their beauty, Cersei's decent into paranoia and pyromania... I'm not saying that passes for anything close to evidence, and I agree that having secret Targs under every unturned stone is a little silly, but it's still a pet theory of mine.

Since when is 'beauty' a Targ-specific trait?

[Penguin king]

Since when is 'beauty' a Targ-specific trait?

Since when was there such a thing as a "house-specific trait? It's not like the targs own incest, paranoia or pyromania either. I said the twins fit as Targs I didn't say that no one other than Targs could possibly be beautiful.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I don't think any of the Lannister siblings are Targs, but the twins make far more sense as a viable theory than Tyrion, who is very much a "Lannister" and also very much Tywin's son.

[A Crow Come Over]

J/C/T are not Targaryens. Do you really think that if Joanna was raped by Aerys, she wouldn't tell her husband? And if she did, do you really think Tywin would just sit idly by and not tale any action?

The Tyrion part of the theory is just a weak attempt to absolve him of kinslaying. And people seemed to have interpreted a single (metaphorical) remark by Genna to be conclusive evidence that Jaime must be a Targ.

If Tyrion wasn't Tywin's son, why the hell would GRRM have invested that much time in their relationship?

I don't subscribe to the J/C theory but Tyrion is more interesting.

Whose to say that Tywin didnt attempt to abort the pregnancy once he found out? This might account for the death of Joanna in childbirth also Tyrion's Achondroplasia is an autosomal dominant genetic disorder which means one parent had to have the dominant gene to pass it along which may also be a clue.

Isn't it interesting that Dany, Jon and Tyrion's mother all died in childbirth? And everyone agrees 2 of those are Targs (and yes I am aware that mothers dying in childbirth is common for a medieval setting and I am not saying this is specfic to Targ thing)

To me there's definite hints left in there, but whether its a red herring or not is another story.

[Yukle]

The only secret Targ theory I like is R+L=J, and I believe Aegon is a secret Blackfyre.

I'm not even sure of that much. It's been made mention more than once that Valyrians in general often had silver hair and purple eyes. After the Doom, the traits were less common because most Valyrians died but it still exists outside of Targaryens and Blackfyres. I think he's just a nobody who Varys found.

[Lord Freypie]

Out of that no mention of Aurane Waters and Darkstar yet ? Patchface ? Meera ?

Half the family is missing.

[Mladen]

Again with this? Dr Pepper had a patience to explain that logic behind Tyrion being Targaryen is fallable, and I`ll just say I agree. This theory makes me wonder of ho much certain readers let their imagination wonder while they`re reading.

[Corvo Attano]

Since when was there such a thing as a "house-specific trait? It's not like the targs own incest, paranoia or pyromania either. I said the twins fit as Targs I didn't say that no one other than Targs could possibly be beautiful.

Green eyes flecked with gold are Lannister-specific, and the Martells have a very unique, distinctive look.

[Jslay427]

Varys is said to be bald in the books. Is that because his hair grows in silver if he doesn't shave every fortnight? What is he trying to hide???