[BOOK SPOILERS] Nitpick without repercussion?

[Cas Stark]

You can tell they are Dany fanboys by everything they say about her and by the fact that everything her character has done so far has been portrayed as completely good and correct with completely good and correct outcomes.

They're making Daairo more worthy of her in the show, instead of the lowlife he was in the books. The racism angle is a separate subject, but there can't really be any doubt that the Mysha ending where she is practically in the Jesus on the cross formation arms outstretched lifted by the crowd was not intended to glorify her as a messiah figure.

[six]

They like Dany. They might not love her as much as the Lannisters, but she's always very prominent and presented on a very positive light. Every season ends with something cool Dany does. Look at the difference in how they treat Jon Snow, and in the books Jon is as much of what comes closer to a protagonist as Tyrion and Dany do

BUT, at least Dany's storyline this season was great, contrary to most of the KL's scenes or Theon.

[Cas Stark]

I agree, as pure television they did a very, very good job w/Dany's story this season, other than Targaryen Jesus crowd surfing. In terms of her characterization, not so much.

[Miodrag]

I'm not sure where the idea that D&D are in love with Dany is coming from... Did any of you watch her storyline last season?!

If D&D love a character, it doesn't mean that's a benefit for that character. Just look what they did to Robb after season 1, even though they were in love with both character and the actor. Yes, Dany is probably more important to them than great many other characters, but whoever admires her book story (myself included) shouldn't hold his/her breath over what the show is going to do with her. "Inside the episode" video for this season's finale should be enough of a warning sign: about the last scene, Benioff says that Dany at last has her own people besides her khalasar, and that the crowd's love for her was fulfillment of prophecy. Now: 1) What khalasar is that exactly? The one that disappeared for the last eight episodes at least, possibly longer? 2) What prophecy? Was there in the show any prophecy regarding anything we've seen in the finale?

[boojam]

More examples of disjointed scenes

A whole horde of wildlings teleporting past the wall, while only 4 guys climbed to the top.

What the hell happened in Yunkai. I still don't know.

1)In the book, I think more than 4 made it to the top, but lowered ropes to bring for others to climb, I think that's true.

A very short piece of dialog or establishing shot could have explained it. Maybe they did and cut it.

2) Yeah what the hell! There is that that second wave of slave soldiers which attack them, then there a cut away to Jorah saying something like 'as you predicted , the slave soldiers gave up', what!

That was episode 9 and Dave and Dan's total attention was on the end sequence , the heck with logical narrative, because nobody is going to remember it in that episode.

Budget problems too, I think.

They probably should have left it like George did in the books , Dany laid out the plan, and then cut to Jorah coming back and telling Dany what happened. I knew they did not have the time or money to stage the actual battle of Yunkai.

Makes one wonder what they will do about Meereen?

[Khal-a-bunga]

Jorah, Grey Worm, and Daario kicked some more ass, then opened the gates to let both the army of the Unsullied and the Second Sons into the city. At which point, the guards surrendered. The plan was established in their first scene of the episode.

[Le Cygne]

Most IMPORTANTLY, ASOIAF readers are not Twilight lovers to enjoy such sappy love stories... I liked all those couples in the book but I was really disappointed on how the show handled them...

I was disappointed, too. I like romance, but not sappy romance. That's what's so good about the books, the romances are always off kilter in some way. Talisa and Robb, just no. And when Jon and Ygritte kissed on top of the Wall, I cringed. It's like they never heard, less is more.

[six]

I was disappointed, too. I like romance, but not sappy romance. That's what's so good about the books, the romances are always off kilter in some way. Talisa and Robb, just no. And when Jon and Ygritte kissed on top of the Wall, I cringed. It's like they never heard, less is more.

Mark my words, they're going to turn Cersei/Jaime- a dysfunctional, co-dependent, borderline abusive relationship into the new Jack&Rose special Guest Star Celine Dion singing their

.

[boojam]

Jorah, Grey Worm, and Daario kicked some more ass, then opened the gates to let both the army of the Unsullied and the Second Sons into the city. At which point, the guards surrendered. The plan was established in their first scene of the episode.

I didn't see the second wave of guards surrender.

In the books , and I just read the passage, there is an 'army' , can't tell what proportion are slave and non-slave, in fact it's just called 'Yunkish army'. An army in the front of Yunkai.

Dany devises a plan , having her Kos (lord if she has only about 80 Dothraki left , only 40 of them should be warriors) to take the center, Gray Worm and the Unsullied to take the flank, and Daario takes the Stromcrows to attack the Second Sons who guard the rear of Yunkai. Of course the Stormcrows are missing from the show. (Dany actually breaks a promise to the Second Sons about waiting for their answer, but no matter.) She orders a surprise attack at night , there is rout. Dany's forces loose very few.

In the book all of the battle is off page, it is Jorah who relates what happed. The fact that it was Dany's plan was left out of the show. (Everything is truncated, four guys take the whole city, whew!)

[zaphodbrx]

I toyed with this idea too when I thought of all these changes in characters that could have been avoided most of the time simply by keeping the dialogue in the book intact (this would have change A LOT in Stannis' arc even if they wanted to free Gendry in episode 10, there is a huge difference between 'the boy will die' and 'sacrifice... it's never easy, or no real sacrifice' etc). and they've got some characters' relationships with each others really wrong. And everytime we complain about these showdefenders says how we lack screentime.

I first thougth that they might not be doing this, councouisly, being biased after reading the books like any fan, about their favorites, but now that I think of it it's clear that they're concentrating more on some characters and not on others I mean if you watch the 'inside episodes' I noticed that they mostly speak about same characters ignoring some others eventhough there's been great plot development on the otherside. And there's also the number of lines per character which provides further proof(from some poster in WIC) :

Sum of these numbers make 2625. Now let's look at King's Landing characters' sum (Tyrion, Tywin, Cersei,Sansa, Joffrey, Margaery, Olenna, Shae, Varys,Bronn, Littlefinger) : 937, so 35.7% of the whole story.

Let's compare it with to books, going till the chapter 56 of aSoS (the Bran at Nightfort), and the number of KL chapters (Sansa+Tyrion) is 9, so 15.8% of the story taking in account the prologue too.

So there's over two times more time spent in KL in the show than in the books, well I hope its clear why the other characters lack screen time! For more whiteTyrion and whores and useless stuff. With that much time spent on KL they didn't even managed to get Sansa right.

And looking again at the numbers, WHY Tyrion has that much lines, he basically does nothing big in this part of aSoS except marrying and whining. Stannis or Catelyn has less lines than Shae the funny whore -__-. Catelyn has as much lines as BRONN, this is how much she got downplayed. you'll also notice the 2x factor between Tyrion and Jaime, knowing that this season was Jaime's prime, so we will be lucky if Jaime talks as much as Shae next season.

Quoted for truth. So many storylines have been damaged by excessive focus on white-Tyrion and other Kings landing rubbish . Look at Mance Rayder for example, he was on screen for like 5 seconds.

[Khal-a-bunga]

I didn't see the second wave of guards surrender.

In the books , and I just read the passage, there is an 'army' , can't tell what proportion are slave and non-slave, in fact it's just called 'Yunkish army'. An army in the front of Yunkai.

Dany devises a plan , having her Kos (lord if she has only about 80 Dothraki left , only 40 of them should be warriors) to take the center, Gray Worm and the Unsullied to take the flank, and Daario takes the Stromcrows to attack the Second Sons who guard the rear of Yunkai. Of course the Stormcrows are missing from the show. (Dany actually breaks a promise to the Second Sons about waiting for their answer, but no matter.) She orders a surprise attack at night , there is rout. Dany's forces loose very few.

In the book all of the battle is off page, it is Jorah who relates what happed. The fact that it was Dany's plan was left out of the show. (Everything is truncated, four guys take the whole city, whew!)

As I said, I don't think it's implied that three guys (in the show it's just the three I mentioned) took the "whole city". The plan was to open the gate to allow the main force in. Just because we didn't see them open the gate and let the Unsullied and Second Sons into the city doesn't mean that they took it themselves. Jorah and company obviously killed the second wave of guards along with the first, then opened the gates, according to their initial plan (minus, you know, actually having to fight a shit-load of guards). I could only vaguely recall how it happened in the books, so thanks for the reminder, but that's not all that helpful in answering your question about the show.

[Le Cygne]

Quoted for truth. So many storylines have been damaged by excessive focus on white-Tyrion and other Kings landing rubbish . Look at Mance Rayder for example, he was on screen for like 5 seconds.

Everyone's plot at KL basically revolved around Tyrion on the show. I suppose this will continue when he leaves. Maybe he and Jorah will be the best of pals. The good side of that is, then we might see a proper Sansa and Cersei when he's not there. Then again, who knows. Catelyn's plot revolved around Robb.

[boojam]

As I said, I don't think it's implied that three guys (in the show it's just the three I mentioned) took the "whole city". The plan was to open the gate to allow the main force in. Just because we didn't see them open the gate and let the Unsullied and Second Sons into the city doesn't mean that they took it themselves. Jorah and company obviously killed the second wave of guards along with the first, then opened the gates, according to their initial plan (minus, you know, actually having to fight a shit-load of guards). I could only vaguely recall how it happened in the books, so thanks for the reminder, but that's not all that helpful in answering your question about the show.

Yeah your right three guys (actually that seems a little screwy, I know one would have to be stealthy , but , as turns out the Yunkai (slave army?) does not even have pickets!

(Watching the scene again, I see Dave and Dan's haste at work, this is episode 9 after all.)

Daario does describe the plan, 3 men (if the back gate is not guarded with outlooks then why not take say 10 men, take Dothraki or even a few more?)(o well), yeah after taking the back gate, they sneak through the city and open the main gates and let in the Unsullied. I don't know who is leading the Unsullied at this point.

So watching the scene again. Daario takes out the forward guard ,seems to be just two guys!

Then he, Jorah and Gray Worm are attacked by the , I guess regular contingent of rear gate guards, a fight ensues, they win.

There is a pause, then a whole big group of guards (army?) show up and take up fight positions, then...CUT!

However when Ser Jorah and Gray Worm* turn up, Jorah says "It was just as you said. Their slave soldiers threw down their spears and surrendered." (Actually she does not say that in the planning scene, nobody does.)

No mention of the gates being opened , of the Unsullied being engaged , apparently the city just surrendered , like that!

By the by for such a big city , last scene, those main gates were kind of wimpy! I don't know how many Unsullied at a time one could have gotten through!

Not that the events as Daario described them could not have taken place, but the dialog in that episode was quite incoherent.

Well Dave and Dan were ready to move on to the RW, which is where their teleplay writing minds were.

*Nit: I thought George described the Unsullied as carrying , besides spears and shields, carried , like Roman soldiers a sword like a Gladius. Gray Worm seems to carry only a dagger. Budget again.

[Khal-a-bunga]

Yeah, maybe it's just me, but a lifetime of watching films and television has given me the very strange ability to infer that it wasn't just the three of them that won the city for Dany. To think that - because of where the episode cut (which was likely a combination of budget, and a means to provide tension for those viewers who haven't read the books [i.e. the majority of the audience]) - nothing else could have happened off-screen is... Well, it's odd. They clearly spelled out their plan at the beginning of the episode. Nothing "incoherent" about it, unless the fact that it's different from how it happened in the books automatically makes something from the show beyond comprehension (for book readers alone, it seems, since most everyone else seems to have understood what was going on).

But this is the 'Nitpick Without Repercussion' thread, and I don't want to ruin the fun for anyone, so I'm out!

[Miodrag]

Yeah, maybe it's just me, but a lifetime of watching films and television has given me the very strange ability to infer that it wasn't just the three of them that won the city for Dany. To think that - because of where the episode cut (which was likely a combination of budget, and a means to provide tension for those viewers who haven't read the books [i.e. the majority of the audience]) - nothing else could have happened off-screen is... Well, it's odd. They clearly spelled out their plan at the beginning of the episode. Nothing "incoherent" about it, unless the fact that it's different from how it happened in the books automatically makes something from the show beyond comprehension (for book readers alone, it seems, since most everyone else seems to have understood what was going on).

But this is the 'Nitpick Without Repercussion' thread, and I don't want to ruin the fun for anyone, so I'm out!

It must be you, cause I have a different experience. A lifetime of watching films and television has given me the very strange ability to analyze the material I consumed via screen. You know, to reach a judgment on quality of the stuff I saw. To think that a viewer has to leave aside all norms and standards, and just accept everything thrown at him/her without ever questioning the quality of such small and insignificant things like writing or directing... Well, it's odd. Though, not nearly as odd as mocking other people for their taste.

[Khal-a-bunga]

It must be you, cause I have a different experience. A lifetime of watching films and television has given me the very strange ability to analyze the material I consumed via screen. You know, to reach a judgment on quality of the stuff I saw. To think that a viewer has to leave aside all norms and standards, and just accept everything thrown at him/her without ever questioning the quality of such small and insignificant things like writing or directing... Well, it's odd. Though, not nearly as odd as mocking other people for their taste.

What are you talking about? You should probably re-read my responses, because my whole point was that we never see everything happen on-screen. Inferences always have to be made with film, television, novels - basically anything that isn't a continuous experience (which, your life would be the only example I can think of, and even then it's limited to the scope of your own personal experiences). In this case, because the first scene in Essos details the plan, the second scene shows Jorah, Grey Worm, and Daario inside of the city, and the final scene shows the three of them returning to Dany and Barristan in their tent doesn't mean that the three of them brought the city down alone - it's inferred that the three of them were able to make it to the gate and let the rest of Dany's army into the city. I didn't mention the quality of any of these sequences, whatsoever, just that we didn't have to see all of this happen to understand that it did. No mention of the quality of the writing, or the directing, or any of the other shit you're accusing me of, so...

[Roose Seal]

Honestly, I, too, thought the show made it look like Jorah, GW and Daario took the city on their own.

[boojam]

It must be you, cause I have a different experience. A lifetime of watching films and television has given me the very strange ability to analyze the material I consumed via screen. You know, to reach a judgment on quality of the stuff I saw. To think that a viewer has to leave aside all norms and standards, and just accept everything thrown at him/her without ever questioning the quality of such small and insignificant things like writing or directing... Well, it's odd. Though, not nearly as odd as mocking other people for their taste.

When people like or don't like a piece of literature or visual media or music I don't like to see "I liked that" or "I didn't like that". I want to see the reasons why.

Why I always liked Roger Ebert, in print at least, most times he gave a fine analysis of what was right or wrong about a film, in his on screen TV it didn't always work, too little time.

I like A.O. Scott at the NY Times, I wish he would write a review of GOT since he is not genre hostile, but maybe he does not do TV reviews. In the past I thought Jay Cocks who did a long stretch at TIME was great, he later became a screenwriter ... O there are a lot of them...

even Pauline Kael (The New Yorker)when she was not genre hostile! ....

I just hate when a fan will takes exception to liking a bad film because "it only a movie", as if being stupid was a virtue!

[Miodrag]

What are you talking about? You should probably re-read my responses, because my whole point was that we never see everything happen on-screen. Inferences always have to be made with film, television, novels - basically anything that isn't a continuous experience (which, your life would be the only example I can think of, and even then it's limited to the scope of your own personal experiences). In this case, because the first scene in Essos details the plan, the second scene shows Jorah, Grey Worm, and Daario inside of the city, and the final scene shows the three of them returning to Dany and Barristan in their tent doesn't mean that the three of them brought the city down alone - it's inferred that the three of them were able to make it to the gate and let the rest of Dany's army into the city. I didn't mention the quality of any of these sequences, whatsoever, just that we didn't have to see all of this happen to understand that it did. No mention of the quality of the writing, or the directing, or any of the other shit you're accusing me of, so...

No, you didn't mention writing nor directing. But, you implied that the other poster lacks the ability (a "very strange" one, as you said) to fill in the blanks himself. (Well, not blanks, but cuts; but concept's the same.) And only because he dared to question show's selection of what to put on screen and what not. He - a show lover almost as big as you, by the way, though way more polite to other people - simply stated in his last post that the show should have make more sense with Yunkai sequence; not that it can't possibly be "solved" without "a lifetime of watching films and television", but that it's too much trouble over something that could have been filmed and edited more effectively.

[Khal-a-bunga]

You're totally right - the sequence made no sense, and I'm not sure how anyone who hasn't read the books could possibly understand what happened there.