Americanisms

[Red Raven]

the differences in AE and BE are petty squabbles

Pretty much. You can throw a British person, an American, an Australian, a New Zealander and a Canadian into a room together and they can understand each other perfectly well. If I didn't already know what a "loo" was you could use it in a sentence and it's easy to figure out.

The word differences don't amount to much more than slang and the occasional spelling and punctuation differences are relatively minor.

I think there is more divergence between standard German and Swiss German than any of the major English dialects.

[blood of the dragoon]

I think there is more divergence between standard German and Swiss German than any of the major English dialects.

Or Spanish.

I'm with you on this one. Realize vs realise isn't that big a difference.

Eta

This forum is proof that standard written English is pretty much universal. Neither I nor the English have to translate our thoughts to communicate with each other.

[The guy from the Vale]

Pretty much. You can throw a British person, an American, an Australian, a New Zealander and a Canadian into a room together and they can understand each other perfectly well. If I didn't already know what a "loo" was you could use it in a sentence and it's easy to figure out.

The word differences don't amount to much more than slang and the occasional spelling and punctuation differences are relatively minor.

I think there is more divergence between standard German and Swiss German than any of the major English dialects.

Agreed. In fact, I don't understand why Swiss German is still counted as German. Luxembourgish is counted as its own language, and it's closer to German than Swiss German.

[the trees have eyes]

I see them as two dialects of the same language. They're still much too close to be separate languages.

Absolutely. There are such minor differences that in no way can you regard them as separate languages. No one from the UK who goes on holiday to the US or vice versa wonders whether they will be able to "speak the language" or considers themselves bilingual. They won't buy a phrasebook either. The emergence of the modern European Romance languages from Latin took hundreds of years of isolation and our global communications culture is unlikely to see the evolution of separate languages as they don't really have the means to grow apart. You won't get me to say "gotten" though. Period.

[the trees have eyes]

Or Spanish.

I'm with you on this one. Realize vs realise isn't that big a difference.

Eta

This forum is proof that standard written English is pretty much universal. Neither I nor the English have to translate our thoughts to communicate with each other.

But Spain had numerous separate languages and still does. Castilian Spanish is taught as "Spanish" but Catalan, Aragonese and Basque (and others) are old languages (Basque is not even Romance). Franco suppressed the teaching of these mother tongues in the Catalan and Basque regions in order to promote his strong vision of a unified Spanish nation but the regional cultural and linguistic identities are very much still alive and Catalan is a language in its own right - like Portugese - rather than a dialect of Spanish. For example, Catalan is the official language of Andorra.

[Red Raven]

The emergence of the modern European Romance languages from Latin took hundreds of years of isolation

Definitely. The many Italian dialects should be categorized as separate languages. Some are very close but others are unintelligible to each other.

It's a bit weird that Dutch and Afrikaans have a high degree of mutual intelligibility and are separate languages but Mandarin, Wu, Cantonese (etc), which are unintelligible to each other, are still considered by many to be dialects.

[Summah]

Definitely. The many Italian dialects should be categorized as separate languages. Some are very close but others are unintelligible to each other.

It's a bit weird that Dutch and Afrikaans have a high degree of mutual intelligibility and are separate languages but Mandarin, Wu, Cantonese (etc), which are unintelligible to each other, are still considered by many to be dialects.

"A language is a dialect with an army and navy" Max Weinreich (or possibly someone else)

[jons nissa]

It's a bit weird that Dutch and Afrikaans have a high degree of mutual intelligibility and are separate languages but Mandarin, Wu, Cantonese (etc), which are unintelligible to each other, are still considered by many to be dialects.

i've never understood why dutch and afrikaans are considered seperate languages except perhaps to make a political point. although the pronounciations can be very different, their similarities are almost as much as american and british english.

snap 't echt niet.

[The Boar of Gore]

I think Trainspotting (both the book and the movie) introduced me to using the C-word to describe males in a variety of contexts (especially Begbe's liberal use of the word). I have tried to change the culture here in the US by using the C-word in similar contexts, but I must say it has thus not worked out very well. :drool:

The word is so stigmatizing here in the US that you really can't use it in conversation without sounding like a misogynist.

The way it's used in the US is very misogynistic - at least the way I've heard it.

It's not like that at all in the UK. But it's not always jokey either. Technically, it's the worst insult we have.

[Maxpey]

The way it's used in the US is very misogynistic - at least the way I've heard it.

It's not like that at all in the UK. But it's not always jokey either. Technically, it's the worst insult we have.

Most women I know believe the C-word is the most offensive thing any person can say about a woman. In fact, many feel calling a woman the c-word is at least the equivalent, if not worse, of using racial epithets.

[The Winter's Wolf]

Lots of different ones, most some reference to a male domestic animal. The one I hear all the time in VA is "about as much use as tits on a boar-hog"

When I first read that expression (I think it's Tyrion who uses it) I thought GRRM was taking a jab at the terrible 1997 Batman & Robin movie where Batman and Robin inexplicably had nipples on their suits. Could've been a product of my own warped mind though.

[Dany Girl]

Most women I know believe the C-word is the most offensive thing any person can say about a woman. In fact, many feel calling a woman the c-word is at least the equivalent, if not worse, of using racial epithets.

here in America calling a woman the c word is basically saying she's nothing but a hole to f*ck. She's not human and she's not worth anything and she's only good for a man's pleasure. Calling a woman the c word is a good way to get kicked in the nuts. For many women it is as offensive as calling a black person the n word. Not good.

[Khal Shaggydog]

Nipples on a breastplate - we use "worthless as tits on a bull" (but boar-hog is pretty awesomely Appalacian to whoever posted that)

Im from Boston, so my "english", is as good as the next guys. Not for nuthin, but if you grew up speaking more than one language (and BE and AE do NOT count), then its all the same shite. You want bad use of phrases such as "I could care less"? - we're the mecca of idiotic sayings that mean precisely the opposite of what the speaker believes they are saying. Its something I laugh at on most days, and curse at on days when I dont get enough sleep/coffee/the Red Sox lose.

Cunt is in pretty heavy usage around here, take a look at any of the Damon/Afflect/Wahlburg movies. Its also one of the best lines of Kill Bill 2. Having said that, Im not going around town saying that to anyone, but it can be a particularly stinging swear in the right setting.

What a great exposition of the Americans v. Brits on this thread! Its hard to objectively beat the geographical monstrosity that is modern day America, however, despite the rather nasty and disgusting way our country formed itself. I think its been correctly pointed out that no other nation on earth can boast the variety of climate, ecological resources, mineral deposits, or just pure diversity, except perhaps China. But we dont have the history of castles, dynastic feuding, or generations of continual warfare that Europe has. So I guess we're at some kind of relative compromise - the geographical identity seems more American, but the population and cultural background seems distincly northern european. Plus all the characters in the TV show seem to have british accents, except Tyrion who manages to vacilate between both.

Im glad we've got enough biological historians on the thread to point out the origins of some of our better (Im speaking for natives of the Americas here) exports - tomatoes, potatoes, pumpkins, peppers. Its pretty wild to think of Italy before tomatoes, or the irish before potatoes (this is me - Im gaelic and garlic by nationality). Its also a shock to our cultural memory to realize that amerindians existed for most of their history without horses.

How about this for anti-Americanism on GRRM's part - no tobacco in the whole world?? Cant you piture the Red Viper sitting back with a long pipe, after he poisened up his spear and got ready to face down the Mountain?

[Lady Beyond the Wall]

Color and other words that 'should' have a u.

Only the very posh Americans say colour

[Nuncle Kraken]

Only the very posh Americans say colour

Not that I've ever seen.

[thecryptile]

How about this for anti-Americanism on GRRM's part - no tobacco in the whole world?? Cant you piture the Red Viper sitting back with a long pipe, after he poisened up his spear and got ready to face down the Mountain?

Given the pseudo-medieval setting, tobacco could be present on Planetos, just not yet introduced to Westeros and Essos. The Sothoryosi or Ulthosi might be puffing away as we speak. I'm more surprised that no one in Westeros smokes opium, given the wide availability and popularity of milk of the poppy.

I can totally see Oberyn kicking back with a super long hobbit style pipe and blowing smoke rings over the battlements of Sunspear.

Only the very posh Americans say colour

HP Lovecraft and a few other literary Anglophiles are the only Americans I've ever seen that add the extra "u".

[blood of the dragoon]

Only the very posh Americans say colour

Sometimes i do for fun. And i was notorious for it in high school. I'd get corrected in English class and say 'well actually...' like an asshole.

[Cameron]

Sometimes i do for fun. And i was notorious for it in high school. I'd get corrected in English class and say 'well actually...' like an asshole.

As do I, the result of spending a few years in the Scottish education system

[Daemul]

Sometimes i do for fun. And i was notorious for it in high school. I'd get corrected in English class and say 'well actually...' like an asshole.

If I had been in America for my school days I would probably have been kicked out of English class, there's no way in hell I would have removed the "u", consequences be damned.

[jons nissa]

Only the very posh Americans say colour

Writing "colour" is incorrect in America and if graded by a computer and most people that are American, would be marked as wrong. There is a reason why there is an American English and British English setting on most computerized programs. The languages have evolved differently. That's not that hard to deal with.