Bothersome Inconsistencies/Plot Holes

[mindchap]

Who apart from Val?

May have just been Val, there was a topic on that some time back.

[The Killer Snark]

EDIT - Accidental double post.

[The Killer Snark]

I have noticed, in addition to the 'Jon reaching for Longclaw' moment alluded to earlier, quite a few occasions where characters reach for something that was already in their hand. We can only assume they've put it aside in between, but it isn't clarified in the text.

[Mad Monkey]

That's not actually what inconsistency is. If Jamie was referred to as "the lion" but later in the plot someone referred to him as something that was explicitly the opposite of a lion, that would be an inconsistency. An inconsistent plotline involes contradictions, there isn't a contradiction in someone referring to a character as "the lion," and no one else referring to him as the lion. maybe a lack of foresight, though.

To be fair, we use "plot hole" to mean basically anything in the story that we personally didn't agree with. Wasn't there a thread a few days ago about how the Iron Throne was a 'plot hole' because no one wanted to use it to conquer other countries?

[Lord Ravenstark]

To be fair, we use "plot hole" to mean basically anything in the story that we personally didn't agree with. Wasn't there a thread a few days ago about how the Iron Throne was a 'plot hole' because no one wanted to use it to conquer other countries?

How many kingdoms there are in the planet? 1?

[Lost Melnibonean]

It kind of bothered me that Tyrion started out being quite acrobatic. Then gets troubled with leg cramps all the time. But I'm not a doctor or anything...so it might be legitimate.

Like the computer animated Yoda!

[Frozentree]

How many kingdoms there are in the planet? 1?

Many and more.

- City states of Essos (free cities + Qarth and Asshai and many more we don't know about)

- Summer Islands

- Ibben

- Ghis

etc.

[diremitar]

Not sure if this is plot hole or inconsistency but I was always wondering why Boltons aren't destroyed or stripped of their lands earlier before. I mean they rebelled against Starks several times and still remained one of the most important houses in the North. And I don't think there is case that Starks were mild to houses which rebelled against them. Greystarks rebelled and they were stripped of the lands or destroyed. Why not Boltons too?

[FC_Lymond]

One big hole to me is that the Starks never know that Arya has disappeared from King's Landing. It's a very long time from when she leaves until the Red Wedding. In that whole time they are in the dark.

Even without having a few spies and informers, surely they would have met someone from King's Landing who could give them such basic info.

[Frozentree]

Not sure if this is plot hole or inconsistency but I was always wondering why Boltons aren't destroyed or stripped of their lands earlier before. I mean they rebelled against Starks several times and still remained one of the most important houses in the North. And I don't think there is case that Starks were mild to houses which rebelled against them. Greystarks rebelled and they were stripped of the lands or destroyed. Why not Boltons too?

Because killing entire family is not a just punishment. they most likely ruthlessly killed the rebel lord every time, but a new one rose and rebelled again. You do not kill someone who has not done anything wrong because his ancestors and a family member have rebelled. "Sorry, but your great-uncle rebelled against us, so we have to kill you. I know you took no part in it, but your family has rebelled several times in the past and we have to kill everyone who is related to them"

[diremitar]

Because killing entire family is not a just punishment. they most likely ruthlessly killed the rebel lord every time, but a new one rose and rebelled again. You do not kill someone who has not done anything wrong because his ancestors and a family member have rebelled. "Sorry, but your great-uncle rebelled against us, so we have to kill you. I know you took no part in it, but your family has rebelled several times in the past and we have to kill everyone who is related to them"

So why they aren't stripped of the lands and exiled? They were nothing but trouble in the north

[RumHam]

So why they aren't stripped of the lands and exiled? They were nothing but trouble in the north

I don't have time right now to find the source for this, but if the wiki has this right:

Approximately a thousand years ago, the Boltons finally swore fealty to the Kings in the North and agreed to abandon their practice of flaying their enemies. However, three hundred years later the Boltons rose in rebellion against the Starks. The Stark armies besieged the Dreadfort for four years before the Boltons finally capitulated and dipped their banners once more. For many centuries the Boltons remained loyal to the Starks, although rumors persisted that they continued to flay their prisoners in secret, and maintain a hidden chamber in the Dreadfort to display the skins of their enemies.

Then it sorta makes sense. You either accept their surrender and new oaths of fealty (and I'm sure a lot of money,) or you lose hundreds maybe thousands of men trying to storm their castle and wipe them out.

[diremitar]

I don't have time right now to find the source for this, but if the wiki has this right:

Then it sorta makes sense. You either accept their surrender and new oaths of fealty (and I'm sure a lot of money,) or you lose hundreds maybe thousands of men trying to storm their castle and wipe them out.

Yes it makes sense. But although some measures should had be done

[Lost Melnibonean]

One big hole to me is that the Starks never know that Arya has disappeared from King's Landing. It's a very long time from when she leaves until the Red Wedding. In that whole time they are in the dark.

Even without having a few spies and informers, surely they would have met someone from King's Landing who could give them such basic info.

Nobody, except for the people she met later that knew who she truly was, had any idea whether Arya made it out of KL. For half the time Arya was keeping one step ahead of the bad guys in the Riverlands Robb's army and his best scouts were in the Westerlands. By the time he returned he thought she was dead, no? The BWB weren't exactly allied with Stark/Tully.

[Bold Barry Whitebeard]

So why they aren't stripped of the lands and exiled? They were nothing but trouble in the north

It's like Tywin says, (paraphrased), "If you don't take any prisoners, no one will ever surrender to you again."

Yes, they could have wiped out the Boltons. But then, every rebellion becomes a fight to the death, because they know surrender isn't an option. It makes wars longer and bloodier than necessary.

[JMJ]

I have posted this before in a small things that annoy thread but i think its more of a plot hole.

The deserter from the NW in the aGoT prologue reaches Winterfell after deserting the NW NORTH of the wall. Which means he either went through castle black or scaled the wall. Annoys me no end!!

Gared was a ranger, so it can probably be presumed he knows of the secret passages that the Wildlings have used in the past, beyond the western border of the Wall.

[Stag Country]

I'm pretty sure the Night's Watch doesn't let you just up and leave to take a visit home. That being said, the Watch isn't chalk full of dummies. When they have a member whose real brother is the Lord Paramount of the North and when they know that same family brother is hosting the king who is also his best friend, they will send the best person they can to push for recruits and advocate for whatever need they presently have. Thus they sent Benjen. You send the best man for the job, and sending Benjen Stark in that circumstance makes alot more sense than sending Alliser Thorne or Bowen Marsh.

[FC_Lymond]

Nobody, except for the people she met later that knew who she truly was, had any idea whether Arya made it out of KL. For half the time Arya was keeping one step ahead of the bad guys in the Riverlands Robb's army and his best scouts were in the Westerlands. By the time he returned he thought she was dead, no? The BWB weren't exactly allied with Stark/Tully.

Yes, they don't know where Arya is. I get that.

My point is that you have people coming to KL all the time (like the Queen of Thorns). They meet Sansa, but don't ask where her sister is? If Sansa's presence there was common knowledge, it is logical to believe that Arya's absence would be pretty well known. Except no one in the books or series asks about her?

Or you have Cat visiting Renly's camp. Lots of people there spent time in KL after Arya disappeared. She doesn't seek them out to find out info about her daughters?

[DaveSnow House Stark]

I don't see an issue with any of the items. People tend to want to gloss over horrific things that happened in the past. So Ned may not want to remember in vivid details. Benjen being there is easily explainable as stated numerous times above. The North knew the King was coming. WF likely sent a raven to the wall notifying them of it. Since Benjen is 1st Ranger and a Stark he is the perfect emmisary to go and ask for recruits.

As for other items, hey, I screw up writing simple emails at work sometimes, surely GRRM or any author can be forgiven eye color!

[Brynden Bloodraven Rivers]

Not all men are equal in the NW. I mean, if a Lord Stark wanted to destroy the NW, he could. So they, more or less, try to please the Starks. In aFFC, Sam tells Jon that there were 4 LC younger than him, and Jon replies: All of them brothers or bastards or something of the King in the North.