Why all the grudges against Eddard Stark ?

[Danelle]

Jaime Lannister hates and resents him - even after Stark is dead, the memory of Stark still vexes him.

I don't think that it was pure hatred. Eddard Stark is everything that Jaime failed to be: an honourable man. Eddard judged Jaime the moment he walked in the thrine room. In a way, Eddard symbolises Jaime's conscience.

Cersei pretty much despises Ned from the moment he's back in Robert's life, and probably long before that.

Unlike Renly and Stannis, there was a true bond between Ned and Robert. Lord Stark was more patient that Renly and more diplomatic than Stannis and trully loved and cared for Robert. Cersei feared that Ned was threatening her influence over Robert and she was right. Also, I always got the impression that Robert was looking for a surrogate family. Had he married Lyanna, then Ned would actually be his brother. Instead he married Cersei and his brothers are the Kingslayer and the Imp....In a way Cersei was not jealous of Lyanna but of Ned as well.

Tywin Lannister certainly harbours no respect for him, and sees him as an adversary. (Though at least here the feeling was well-founded and mutual.)

And Joffrey - well, Joffrey was probably always wanting to kill Ned, somewhere in the back of his mind wanting to bang Sansa and bump off her old man.

Well, as far as Tywin is concerned, the feelings are mutual. Ned will not forget that Tywin is responsible for the brutal murder of Princess Elia and her babies. Tywin knows that Ned is not as easily manipulated as Robert and is honourable, therefore an adversary. Still I don't think that Tywin loathed Ned the way he loathed Tyrion. It wasn't personal, just politics. As for Joffrey, he never needed an excuse to hate and abuse someone.

Stannis acknowledges Eddard Stark as honourable, but still goes out of his way to state that Stark was no friend to him, even though Stark was the only major lord who ever thought he was Robert's rightful heir, and the only one Stannis knew actually tried to serve the realm well. When help was needed, where was Stannis. Sulking and brooding on Eddard's closeness to Robert.

Simply jealous I think. Still nothing really personal. I think that it has more to do with Robert than Ned. Not to mention that Robert thanked Ned for ending the siege at the Storm's End, instead of being grateful to his brother for starving and yet resisting.

Renly wanted to help Stark, but attach conditions to it. Prior to the moment of crisis, was Renly offering any help at all, with all his friends and power? No.

Renly had his own agenda, which included the Tyrells. Since Ned's actions did not favour the Tyrell plan to claim the throne, he was not useful to Renly. But I don't think that Renly hated Ned though.

Daenerys thinks of Eddard one of the "Usurper's Dogs", despite the fact she's been told already Eddard never supported her or her family being killed. Even with him dead, she says she's glad about it.

Dany's closest thing to a maester, septon, teacher, mother, father was Viserys. Imagine being a Targaryen prince, with a tendency to make insane remarks, growing up in a palace with Jaime Lannister as your babysitter and then losing everything. From his point of view, Ned Stark is a traitor who turned against Aerys and Rhaegar. I doubt that Viserys told Dany what happenned to Lord Rickard and Brandon. Dany was given only one side of the story. As far as she is concerned, Aerys was a noble king and Ned a greedy and ungrateful man.

Ser Jorah is endlessly bitter against Lord Stark for doing his duty after Jorah dishonoured himself to please his unfaithful wife. Even after acknowleging he made a mess of his own life, Jorah still denounces Stark to Dany.

Jorah loves to blame others for the fact that he was weak enough to admit that his marrieage wasn't working. It is easier to blame Ned. But this is Jorah. He has issues. His father, sister and nieces seemed to think differently of Lord Eddard.

Balon Greyjoy's grudge against Stark is so irrational that he sabotages his own goals to get revenge on Eddard Stark's homeland, for offenses which Stark himself never actually did, or which are not actually offenses. (Sinking his fleet? Nope. Sons murdered? Nope - died in battle, one killed by a Mallister.) Stark takes his son Theon as a hostage and treats him very well - what an outrage!

He is an Ironborn and quite mad. Eddard won and in a way defeated him where it hurts the most. A son killed by an enemy means that the son fought valiantly against the nemy and his death has a symbolic meaning as well. Maron and Rodrik lived and died as Ironborn. Theon though was taken away, raised by wolves, learned to live and think like a Northman not an Ironborn and the distance between Theon and his Ironborn heritage became deeper and didn't simply involve geography but feelings as well. And this is a fact. Theon himself admits that he loved Robb more that his actual brothers. Eddard, in the name of peace, took away Balon's last son.

EDIT: And yeah, I forgot Barbrey Dustin.

I love Barbrey! For a minor character she is simply amazing. But the fact remains that Ned did not marry her, chose a southron lady instead and took her husband away. She has a reason to bear a grudge against him but she is a smart and cunning woman. Perhaps she told Theon everyhting she wanted him to think in regards to Ned.

So how does a guy like Eddard Stark attract so much enmity which he does not deserve? Many points in the story seem to hinge on the fact that certain key people hate him, often for no good reason.

I think that Ned was loved by almost everyone. The people who disliked him, only did it because he was against their personal interests.

The only person who trully hated Ned Stark was Littlefinger and he was the one who trully deceived him and had him executed.

[Tijgy]

I've been eyeing this thread for a while trying to decide if I want to weigh in or not.

Each of these characters have their own reasons for disliking Ned - whether it's imperfect information (Dany believing that Ned groundlessly participated in RR and that he advocated the slaughter of Elia and her children), Ned as a wrench in their plans, or past history.

On a broader spectrum, I believe that the dislike for Ned is rooted in the fact that, with his unimpeachable honor, Ned is somewhat like a mirror. By being a man of honor and indisputable integrity, he forces the other characters to examine their own motivations and failings, never a comfortable task. This is especially troubling to men like Jaime and Stannis who do not, for all of their good qualities, start the story as introspective characters.

Basically, simply by being Ned, Ned forces many of these characters to see the ugliness and dishonor in themselves, and they hate him for it.

I think this is indeed one of the reasons those men and women hated Ned.

Some of them, like Jaime, didn't like him, because they found he didn't had a right to judge them. Didn't he himself committed adultery and fathered a bastard.

Another reason why people in general didn't like or love him, was his coldness and rather distant personality. Only the people close to him, knew he wasn't really a cold person, that he was instead only shy.

[eggs]

Jaime: yeah that's pretty irational. Ned gave him a cold look 17 years back and he still harps on that shit. I do think think he was jealous of Ned though.

Cersei: I don't actually think Cersei hates Ned. Not at all.

Joff: pretty sure he didn't care about Ned at all.

Tywin: Nothing to suggest that he holds a grudge against Ned.

Stannis: well he's jealous that Ned stole his brother's love, which is understandable.

Renly: ??

Dany: she's just stubborn and ignorant (and crazy).

Jorah: another irrational one. Jorah's just a bitch is all. He doesn't want to take responsibility for messing up his life. Guy was a slaver, but in his own head, Ned wall making a mountain out of a molehill.

Balon: Ned helped whoop his ass and took his last living son.

Barbery: yeah that bitch is just crazy. Hers is definitely an irrational one.

[Four-Eyed Crow]

The Ned wasn't perfect, but being a man of integrity in a place of high power and privilege, in a kingdom as full of corruption and intrigue as Westeros, painted a target the size of Harrenhal on his back. Lala makes some good points about this, and I hereby adopt and aver everything she said on p1 of the thread about the Ned.

People call him too honorable, but I don't think there's such a thing. He stood for truth, and evil men took him down for it. To blame his bad end or the Wo5K on him is preposterous. To me, the saddest part of GoT wasn't his execution, but the false confession that preceded it (though in his shoes, I can see doing the same thing, when his daughter was a hostage).

[Tharvot]

Its pretty clear why some people have a grudge against Ned, and none of it is really due to anything he did.

Jaime - Held jealousy over Ned because he was seen as Robert's noble companion during and after the rebellion while Jaime was just the Kingslayer.

Cersei - Clearly disliked Ned for the same reason why she dislikes everyone: he was a threat to her power and family. She was/is extremely paraniod.

Stannis - Robert loved Ned as a brother and never shared that same affection with him.

Dany - Never even knew Ned, only knew that he was Robert's companion during the rebellion.

Basically anyone outside of the Lannister clan and Littlefinger who knew Ned loved and admired him.

[Lonin]

Ned is/was my favorite character in agot.

Ned does not like the Lannisters - and the Lannisters do not like Ned. The story kind of requires dislike between Ned and the Lannisters - he needs to believe (at least a little) Lysa that the Lannisters killed Jon Arryn.

Ned is an interesting character (one of my favorites) - but, imo, we are not told why everyone things Ned is so honorable.

[binga]

Everyone hates you when you are the rock star of Westeros. Ned was the plain Jane who got be a war hero, hence the jealousy factor.

[Whitering]

Also, enmity builds over time. Think of, say Canada, where the Liberal Party was in charge for a very long time, and despite the fact Paul Martin would have made the best Prime Minister Canada had ever had, he was railroaded out of office, not quite as harshly as Ned, because that's the the way it happens.

In Westeros, the Starks have been in charge for a very long time and every now and then they have to beat down rebellions even if there was no particular spark (like a Night King Stark), to motivate the rebellion, so it's all just anger and imagined slights built up over time.

[2fingers]

When I read the novels, I never thought that anyone hated Ned except Jorah. Nobody ever mocked him, spat in his face, or when they talked about Ned said anything mean, hateful, rude or anything truly disdainful about Ned. The only thing everyone talked about was how honorable Ned was naive about how things run in KL.

Jaime said he never feared Ned alive or dead....that is the closest thing I can think of. Stannis did not have a problem with Ned himself but Robert choosing Ned over him. Dany's family was slaughtered and she is but a child still. Cersei regrets what she had to do to Ned and was mad when Joffrey pulled a Joffrey. Tywin, I never got a sense he hated Ned Stark at all.

Jorah hates Ned but I can't sympathize with his opinion because it will be like siding with drug dealer holding grudge for going to jail for selling drugs.

[2fingers]

I don't think Jaime was jealous of Ned but wanted Ned's admiration because he clearly respected him and probably the only person he does respect outside of Arthur Dayne obviously. Why would you take somebody's glare at you to heart if you did not admire the person to begin with.

I honestly think if Jaime had gotten Ned's "approval" about killing the Mad King the whole world could call him Kingslayer and he would be happy with it.

[Four-Eyed Crow]

When you're as good as the Ned, haters hate.

[TheDarkEye]

The reason people do not like eddard stark is because he has some serious faults.

1. he hates jamie lannister because he killed his king. but chooses to forget that this was the same king that had his father and brother burnt alive.

2 he made so terrible mistakes playing the game telling cersei that he knows about the incest was without a doubt the most stupid thing in the series. For a great lord he is politically terrible

3 his honor while admirable is what in alot of ways leads to the war of the 5 kings. if he had sided with renly all the other houses would have been crushed easy but his honor makes him side with stannis. this also indirectly lead to the death of his son and the burning of his keep.

4. Balon greyjoy hates him for turning his son into a land lover and with robert dead taking his revenge on the starks for his sons death was really his only option

I must respond on one and two...

I don't think he hated Jaime for killing Aerys, he just sees him as he sees Tywin - he most likely thought Jaime killed Areys because he knew the war is lost as he father had sided with Robert once the Trident was lost. As an honorable man, Ned couldn't stomach the fact the Jaime has sworn to defened Aerys's life and forsakened his vow when he realised it would probably mean his life or something like that. I don't think he was wrong on that count. he couldn't have guessed the wildfire-plot and Jamie was too proud to tell him what happened.

That's quite true, but thats not make him stupid. Eddard often thinks that he was never meant to be the King's Hand, never meant to be Lord of Winterfell, he thought himself made for a smaller rule. much like Keven he grew under the shadow of an older brother which i think Ned finds more suitable for the titles. Ned so acted out of honor and mercy, he never saw himself as a politics man, being Lord of Winterfell didn't prepare him for KG politics. I can't see how people can hate him just for acting honorably and mercifully, he didn't knew how the game works, he acted with honor and expected the other players to do the same because thats what he knows.

[direwienerdog]

Ned was just like stannis and stannis had more enemies than Ned.... So that's how it works...

Please elaborate.

[The Knight of Grey Garden]

I've been eyeing this thread for a while trying to decide if I want to weigh in or not.

Each of these characters have their own reasons for disliking Ned - whether it's imperfect information (Dany believing that Ned groundlessly participated in RR and that he advocated the slaughter of Elia and her children), Ned as a wrench in their plans, or past history.

On a broader spectrum, I believe that the dislike for Ned is rooted in the fact that, with his unimpeachable honor, Ned is somewhat like a mirror. By being a man of honor and indisputable integrity, he forces the other characters to examine their own motivations and failings, never a comfortable task. This is especially troubling to men like Jaime and Stannis who do not, for all of their good qualities, start the story as introspective characters.

Basically, simply by being Ned, Ned forces many of these characters to see the ugliness and dishonor in themselves, and they hate him for it.

Great post, I think it's simple Ned Stark is the man everyone want to be in Westeros in terms of moral and reputation, contrary to what they are. Most are jealous, because like you said they see how bad they are. Plus, he look to everyone with coldness, is judgemental and contemptful.

[MidnightAurora]

Great post, I think it's simple Ned Stark is the man everyone want to be in Westeros in terms of moral and reputation, contrary to what they are. Most are jealous, because like you said they see how bad they are. Plus, he look to everyone with coldness, is judgemental and contemptful.

I agree great post. I was thinking the same thing. Aside from Jon which if the theories are correct he did with honor in order to grant a sister's dying wish and protect a child. I also agree that Ned was there for everything during RR and Greyjoy Rebellion and did everything with honor and integrity that it forces others to look at themselves and their mistakes and what they did not have the balls to do past, present, future. More later.. Great post..

It is funny how when Robert was alive none on the small council wanted to help Ned and when Robert died none again wanted to help him and betrayed him and judge him and then judged his son. Curious especially when Renly fled instead of helping and he could have brought his troops to support Ned or even join with his son. Renly was arrogant in that part. Barristan left and made sure Joffrey ascended the throne and did not even bother to help Ned nor did he help Ned's bother and father years prior. Varys got Ned to confess and take the black and still Ned got his head taken and yet Varys escorted Tyrion out of the Castle to freedom. Tyrion could have done more for Sansa and chose his family even though they were never loyal or loved him except Jaime. more on Tyrion later. LF betrayed Ned and for what purpose? So he could have a free shot at Catelyn or Sansa? We all know Pycelle has always been in the Lannisters pockets. Ned lived an honorable life and in the end did the honorable thing to try and protect his children and yes people will look to Ned and see all what they are not.

The only redeeming thing about Jaime is that he helped Brienne and put her to defending Sansa and even that I am not sure he would have done if he did not lose his hand. He thinks Sansa is his last chance at Honor.

[hugobauss69]

"You have enemies? Good, that means that you have stood up for something, sometime in your life"

- Winston Churchill

[MidnightAurora]

"You have enemies? Good, that means that you have stood up for something, sometime in your life"

- Winston Churchill

I like that quote...

[Ben Blackfysh]

Simple. People hate people with excessive honor. This is true even in real life. Everybody likes a person with just enough honor to make them seem honorable, but not so much that they don't seem human.

Ned hated Jaime because he forsake his vows. He never really knew the reason why, so he just defaulted to the idea that he was a cocky young Lannister boy that killed his king because he didn't like him. Jaime shouldn't blame him because he never told Ned about Arys's plans. But Jaime is a hot-head and doesn't always think things through. Cersei's reason for hating him is that she is an evil bitch and he isn't.

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

The reason people do not like eddard stark is because he has some serious faults.

1. he hates jamie lannister because he killed his king. but chooses to forget that this was the same king that had his father and brother burnt alive.

2 he made so terrible mistakes playing the game telling cersei that he knows about the incest was without a doubt the most stupid thing in the series. For a great lord he is politically terrible

3 his honor while admirable is what in alot of ways leads to the war of the 5 kings. if he had sided with renly all the other houses would have been crushed easy but his honor makes him side with stannis. this also indirectly lead to the death of his son and the burning of his keep.

4. Balon greyjoy hates him for turning his son into a land lover and with robert dead taking his revenge on the starks for his sons death was really his only option

Ned didn't have a problem with Aerys dying, he had a problem with a member of his own Kingsguard killing him then sitting the Iron Thronelike it wasn't a big deal.

Ned wasn't playing the Game of Thrones, he was simply being Ned. He was trying to save the lives of innocent children, whats wring with not wanting the blood of babies on your hands?

Renly wasn't the rightful king. Stannis was. Whats the difference between siding with Renly and what the Lannisters were doing?

Balon's ill advised rebellion was more to blame than Ned. This is just Balon passing the buck. What about all the people who died in his army, are their deaths Ned's fault too? Balon is the type of foolish leader who gets men killed then skips the funeral so he doesn't have to face the widow.

[Roland Deschain of Gilead]

I've been eyeing this thread for a while trying to decide if I want to weigh in or not.

Each of these characters have their own reasons for disliking Ned - whether it's imperfect information (Dany believing that Ned groundlessly participated in RR and that he advocated the slaughter of Elia and her children), Ned as a wrench in their plans, or past history.

On a broader spectrum, I believe that the dislike for Ned is rooted in the fact that, with his unimpeachable honor, Ned is somewhat like a mirror. By being a man of honor and indisputable integrity, he forces the other characters to examine their own motivations and failings, never a comfortable task. This is especially troubling to men like Jaime and Stannis who do not, for all of their good qualities, start the story as introspective characters.

Basically, simply by being Ned, Ned forces many of these characters to see the ugliness and dishonor in themselves, and they hate him for it.

This is spot on.

Except for Lady Dustin IMO.

I think Lady Dustin might be the only one with other reasons for disliking Ned, in that he appears to have forgotten a lot of the old ways, at least he didn't tell any of them to any of his children if he knew them, which would have been really really helpfull for Jon right now. Although maybe he just didn't know any of them, and they had been lost long before him.

IDK I just think she might have a hidden reason thats not caused by the whole "I am rubber you a glue" thing Ned has going on.