Why all the grudges against Eddard Stark ?

[jon stark I]

Please...

Robert intention was to make his son Joffrey into the next king. Eddard purposefully decided to delude Robert in that regard and change Robert's words into the words that fitted Eddard's agenda. Eddard decided to never come clean with Robert to tell him how things were, but rather deluded Robert so that Robert - if I recall - could die in peace. And what did Eddard lose by doing it? I'll tell you - nothing at all. That you feel bad about something you did is neither punishment nor sacrifice.

If is true that integrity is not judged by public perception, or rather is shouldn't be but is to a large degree, however I'm unsure to the degree that Eddard has actually sacrificed his integrity.

There is a little thing called kindness.Your best friend is dying in agony do you really want to add more pain to his passing?

By your point Ned should have said "Robert Lyanna never loved you she loved Rhaegar she had a child with him and I have been hiding that child growing him up as my son, I too betrayed you there is noone in this world that loves you there is noone in this world that even likes you, you are a fat old drunk pervert Robert and you will die in agony and you know what I am not finished yet there is more.Your wife cheated on you with his brother all those kids you call your children are actually abominations created by Kingslayer.Your wife really made you the same as your house sigil, you have antlers.Oh by the way your brothers hate you, your subjects too hate you.You were never loved by anyone Robert, your parents died, Lyanna left you for Targeryans, she left you for the family who murdered her family imagine how much she loved Rhaegar and how little she loved you.Evil laughter.(Hahahahahahaha Zuhahahahahahahah muhahahahahaha)h that wasn't so hard now that I finally confessed everything I can call myself honorable and trustworthy again thanks Robert."

PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jory Cassel]

Robert intention was to make his son Joffrey into the next king.

Whom he thought to be heir..

Eddard purposefully decided to delude Robert in that regard and change Robert's words into the words that fitted Eddard's agenda. Eddard decided to never come clean with Robert to tell him how things were, but rather deluded Robert so that Robert - if I recall - could die in peace. And what did Eddard lose by doing it? I'll tell you - nothing at all.

He violated his principle of honesty and struggled heavily in doing so, in said scene he is heavily conflicted.

That you feel bad about something you did is neither punishment nor sacrifice.

I feel like going in circles..

If is true that integrity is not judged by public perception, or rather is shouldn't be but is to a large degree, however I'm unsure to the degree that Eddard has actually sacrificed his integrity.

Again, integrity and the reputation of being of integrity are two different things.

[Lion of the West]

Whom he thought to be heir..

He violated his principle of honesty and struggled heavily in doing so, in said scene he is heavily conflicted.

I feel like going in circles..

Again, integrity and the reputation of being of integrity are two different things.

Yes, and he was deceived by both the Lannisters and Eddard in it. I agree to that.

I agree that it wasn't easy for Eddard, but I do not agree that it was a sacrifice.

I agree entirely. For me I would rather end the discussion by saying that we couldn't reach an agreement.

I agree to a degree but I also think that the two are linked.

[Jory Cassel]

I agree entirely. For me I would rather end the discussion by saying that we couldn't reach an agreement.

I gladly would, were it not for..

I agree to a degree but I also think that the two are linked.

..your constant repitition of the above, which is not only highly oversimplifying but fairly meaningless for the discussion. There is no inherent interdependence between being of integrity and being perceived as such. Sure, if the former is true, the latter may be as well, but it is a one way street; someone of integrity is likely to be perceived as such, but someone perceived this way need not truly be of integrity, but in this case, it is meaningless as priorities are what matters when assessing whether a sacrifice was made.

Some hold reputation in high regard, others personal integrity, if the former is not valued, you can't argue that the lack of repercussions on the former negate a sacrifice.

[Aetta]

The reason people do not like eddard stark is because he has some serious faults.

1. he hates jamie lannister because he killed his king. but chooses to forget that this was the same king that had his father and brother burnt alive.

2 he made so terrible mistakes playing the game telling cersei that he knows about the incest was without a doubt the most stupid thing in the series. For a great lord he is politically terrible

3 his honor while admirable is what in alot of ways leads to the war of the 5 kings. if he had sided with renly all the other houses would have been crushed easy but his honor makes him side with stannis. this also indirectly lead to the death of his son and the burning of his keep.

4. Balon greyjoy hates him for turning his son into a land lover and with robert dead taking his revenge on the starks for his sons death was really his only option

You said it, when it comes to Ned's honor and being on the sharp end of it, it leaves a bad taste in people's mouths. You would think that Stannis would admire this, but Stannis is a purist and so even when Ned does the right thing by honor, Stannis cannot give him full credit. That is, to Stannis, following the law is not to be lauded as honorable, it is expected of everyone.

Now, with Jaime...it makes complete sense to me that an honorable man would hate what Jaime did. But, as you noted, Aerys cooked Ned's relatives, so normally we would think Ned would calculate that in his honor equation. He doesn't, though. In spite of what Aerys did, Ned still makes sure to point out to Robert that he is the closest thing to a Targaryen heir (your claim was better), Ned ponders Rhaegar in an almost positive light, and Ned nearly throws down with Robert over the lives of Viserys and Daenerys. For someone who should hate Targs, he sure has a funny way of showing it.

I was watching the TV series last night and listening to the screenplay dialogue and thinking back to the books, Ned's character does not ever throw shade to Aerys legacy about Rickard and Brandon. In the show (which I know is not cannon), Ned pretty much ignores it anytime anyone brings up his family. It's like all of Ned's contemporaries have to remind him that Aerys was bad. When Jaime reminds Ned that Aerys killed his family in the throne room, Ned doesn't bat a lash. When Cersei is telling Ned how she hates Lyanna, Ned doesn't respond to defend his sister. While I know some of these scenes (in the book and show) are more about developing the backstory, Ned is not passionate whatsoever about the past. Of course, with Robert living his whole life in the past, it may just be the contrast effect.

Now, I have to go back and carefully read the actual dialogue from the book, but I am starting to sense something fishy about what kind of terms Ned was on with his family during the months right before the war. Not that Ned wanted his father and Brandon killed, but, given Ned's honor that we are discussing, does Ned kind of see things from Aerys's point of view? After all, it was NOT Brandon's place to call out the Crowned Prince. Does Ned believe his family should have handled things differently? Was Ned and/or Benjen on the Lyanna train when it came to Rhaegar? Or, is Ned just honoring his family's legacy by not responding emotionally to the past?

I know elements of this have been discussed here, but I find it fascinating that Ned is not the Numero Uno Targ hater and can kind of see where it could relate back to his honor.

[Tijgy]

I was watching the TV series last night and listening to the screenplay dialogue and thinking back to the books, Ned's character does not ever throw shade to Aerys legacy about Rickard and Brandon. In the show (which I know is not cannon), Ned pretty much ignores it anytime anyone brings up his family. It's like all of Ned's contemporaries have to remind him that Aerys was bad. When Jaime reminds Ned that Aerys killed his family in the throne room, Ned doesn't bat a lash. When Cersei is telling Ned how she hates Lyanna, Ned doesn't respond to defend his sister. While I know some of these scenes (in the book and show) are more about developing the backstory, Ned is not passionate whatsoever about the past. Of course, with Robert living his whole life in the past, it may just be the contrast effect.

Now, I have to go back and carefully read the actual dialogue from the book, but I am starting to sense something fishy about what kind of terms Ned was on with his family during the months right before the war. Not that Ned wanted his father and Brandon killed, but, given Ned's honor that we are discussing, does Ned kind of see things from Aerys's point of view? After all, it was NOT Brandon's place to call out the Crowned Prince. Does Ned believe his family should have handled things differently? Was Ned and/or Benjen on the Lyanna train when it came to Rhaegar? Or, is Ned just honoring his family's legacy by not responding emotionally to the past?

You might be right. But maybe he just doesn't want to speak about it because it hurts too much. Next to the Targ, his family lost a lot during the war (his father, brother and sister, especially if you compare it to the other major characters in the book.

I don't think he really is angry with Lyanna. He still visits her grave after all this years en brings her flowers.

[Duranaparthur]

Jaimie also probably holds some bitterness from the fact that his some of his Kingsguard brothers are implied to have had more respect for Ned, particularly the Daynes, what with the possibility they named their heir after the man who slew their representative.

Considering that at that point in their life both Ned and Jaimie were striving to navigate the waters of "honor" and "morality," Jaimie would bear even more bitterness towards Ned for walking the line successfully compared to his tripping towards one side or the other. It probably plays into his sparing Ned as well; he respects Ned too much to kill him in anything asides a fair duel not just because of the challenge, but because he wants Ned to see him as a peer Kingsguard to Dayne et al., and he regards Ned as being probably the last person who could honestly bestow anything like that honor, even if he lay dying.

[PWT3]

Ned Stark is everything these characters wish they were and like Lala said he makes them all seriously take a look at themselves in the mirror for the dishonorable, untrustworthy, scheaming, and power hungry people they are.

This. Someone above mentioned that all the characters thought Stark was arrogant and proud of his morals and so on, but I don't think that's it at all. In fact Ned seems like the least self-conscious character in the books - which is another thing they probably resent him for. Ned is NATURALLY moral. He doesn't have to deliberate. When he's appalled by Robert's wanting to kill the Targaryen girl (what would Dany think of him if she knew Ned did that while standing to gain nothing by it?), he doesn't stop and think of what would be the prudent way to act, or what way to act would most benefit his own interests - he reacts instinctively in a moral way.

These people are all of them amoral, self-serving schemers, and many of them are plain evil. I'm sure most of them did hate Ned, but not for any flaw of his so much as that his mere presence reminds them just how awful they are. His mere presence, mind you, not him himself or him on purpose, or him explicitly. Put a beautiful girl on an island with ugly women, and howsoever humble and modest she may be, they will hate her for making them feel as ugly as they actually are.

[GreyWindsRevenge]

I think people don't like him because to the outside world he seemed cold and too honor bound. To those who knew him and were his bannermen he is of course loved for being a fair and kind Lord. I think this one comes down to perception. At the beginning of the story you see a lot through Ned's eyes and through the eyes of people close to him and from there the story spreads out. Now the farther we get away from Northerners or Stark POV'S the more the narrative starts to change on Ned.

[Shpati]

Sorry for the bump, but just wanted to post my respect for Eddard Stark. I definitely agree with the OP.

My opinion on why people have grudges (other than the obvious):

- People like Cercei don't like him because they think he doesn't have a right to preach honor since he fathered a bastard. So if R+L=J is true, lot of people won't even know how honorable he really was.

Eddard just wasn't made for the GoT. Lot of people hate him for informing Cercei on his plans, but he seriously didn't want Robert to execute those children. I respect that. He is silent person who keeps a lot to himself, so most people he knew will probably never know how much more honorable he actually was.

The only person I felt had a reason to really hate him was Lady Dustin for not returning her husband's bones. But even her, she has some preconception hate and jealousy since he was a Stark of Winterfell.

EDIT: And the only thing I don't like about Stannis is his grudge against Eddard. That's his brother's fault, not Eddard's. If Eddard was kept alive, the North would've fought for Stannis and Stannis would be King by now.

[SerArthurHeath]

My understanding from Jaime's POV was that it was the judgment and contempt in Ned's eyes and the assumptions he made when he saw Aerys dead and Jaime (as we know from his flashback, with no intention of taking it or any care about who took it) sitting on the throne (which was probably an error but that's unthinking Jaime for you) that drove Jaime's pride to not telling anyone the truth about Aerys. It brought up all kinds of feelings of being prejudged and also he probably thought that given the man Aerys was, whether he was going to burn down KL or not was irrelevant as to whether he should be killed. And then nobody asked anyway and he was driven by pride to rather live in contempt than have to explain himself to someone who had already judged him. It was understandable and childish but as Jaime was 15 at the time, no more so than a lot of what Jon and Robb have done. Jaime resents Ned as a reminder and a symbol of that day, the judgement since and his own pride but he doesn't hate him and iirc thinks favourably of him at several points in the text. He also probably wishes that he could have stuck to all his oaths like Ned hence him fixating on the one oath Ned 'broke' by having Jon

[Dofs]

Pretty sure Jaime does not resent or hate Ned that much. He actually defended Ned in his dialogue with Cersei in the tower in Winterfell. He has big problems with Ned's notions of honor and that whole throne room situation but he has problems with almost everyone about that. Jaime's hate towards Ned is really overestimated.

[SerArthurHeath]

Also when someone despises you as much as Ned despises Jaime, it's pretty hard to have a very good relationship with them

[IRON BANK]

People dislike Ned for the same reasons, they have mis understandings today. Ned got a great castle (big house), He has got Titles and cash (old money), beautiful family. He has more horses than most people have freinds. Ned is warden over an area that is larger and less fought over than the rest. Ned is well respected and his word is his bond thats worth more than every thing else.