Why the hate for Robb Stark?

[TheJazzMan61]

I loved Robb, because you could always tell with him about how much he loves his Father and that really he did all he did to avenge and honour his father. However, I was disappointed when he made that fatal mistake against the Frey's. I don't think that people hate him- I think they're disappointed by him.

[Buckthorn]

I don't think people hate him, most (including myself) people are disappointed he made such a perilous decision by marrying Jeyne Westerling and not Roslin Frey. In retrospect I personally am glad he did not marry the Frey girl, otherwise the Stark line would become too diluted with Southron blood and possibly produce some Starks with Frey features- weak chin, weasel face, etc.

[Usrnmhsnomning]

Well it's a dick move to go back on a deal that was agreed upon.

Deals like declaring the Lord of Winterfell your king and pledging your sword to him in a move completely separate to any political deal made prior to his crowning?

[Arrowtic]

I don't hate him , in fact I'm his fan but I think he made some mistakes :

1 . Married Jeyne .

2 . Declared himself King in the North(so lost the support stannis could've given him) . He could've joined allies with stannis .

3 . Killed Karstark and lost half his army .

[David Selig]

3 . Killed Karstark and lost half his army .

He lost 300 men who had already left by the time Rickard was executed. The "half his army" bit (which makes no sense really) was only in the TV show

[Jory Cassel]

2 . Declared himself King in the North(so lost the support stannis could've given him) . He could've joined allies with stannis .

because that is exactly what happened :rolleyes:

[aceluby]

Marrying Jane was really his only mistake. His lords declared him KITN, he didn't crown himself. And what was he supposed to do about Karstark who killed children prisoners against the wishes of his king and then goaded the king about how he wasn't man enough to punish treason? There is no best case in that scenario and chances are the Karstarks are already leaving.

[Wales338]

2 . Declared himself King in the North(so lost the support stannis could've given him) . He could've joined allies with stannis .

He was declared king and its not really like he could say "no guys dont want to be king. we will go listen to some other king on the IT" after they had their huge speech against the IT.

3 . Killed Karstark and lost half his army .

He didn't have a choice. He pretty much had to kill Karstark for committing treason and as stated above he didnt lose half his army.

[James Arryn]

Marrying Jane was really his only mistake.

Agreed. He had 2 honours to chose from, and chose the wrong one. I wonder how much the Ned/Jon/Cat thing was an influence.

But yeah, pretty much a prodigy outside of that choice. I include Theon, which IMO is only a mistake in hindsight, and only when contrasted with doing nothing and losing slowly.

[Arrowtic]

Oh then I'm sorry ! Coz I've read the books from red wedding until the end of ADWD so that's my bad !

About king thing , he could've declared for stannis(just as his father wanted to) so his bannermen wouldn't call him that .

[Ser Greg of House House]

The Young Wolf was the only Stark I really liked (other than Arya, but she's on her own weird path), but since I started reading the forums I stopped liked him since people are always (correctly) showing how he was a dumbass. I also think a lot better of Edmure.

[Howie Manderly]

I personally love Robbs character but it makes me sad that he gets so little screen time. Some of the greatest moments of the first 3 books are offscreen

[yogurtcobain]

Robb is one of the best men in westeros so people hate that he made such a dumb decision which ruined his chance at ruling the north. Also I wanted him to punish Cat more harshly for her treason. Other then that great guy

[Buckthorn]

Because he was a redhead.

[Tokyo Towers]

I always liked Robb, even when he fucked up in a major way

[Axrendale]

Marrying Jane was really his only mistake. His lords declared him KITN, he didn't crown himself. And what was he supposed to do about Karstark who killed children prisoners against the wishes of his king and then goaded the king about how he wasn't man enough to punish treason? There is no best case in that scenario and chances are the Karstarks are already leaving.

Edmure suggested a very plausible solution: keep Rickard alive and use him as a hostage to compel the continued obedience of the remaining Karstarks. Their departure was not an insignificant blow to the fortunes of the Starks - not only did Robb lose several hundred sworn swords shortly before he was about to embark on (insofar as he knew) a hard-fought campaign to reclaim the North, it dealt a hard moral blow to his cause by solidifying his image as the "King Who Lost the North", and later on gave Roose Bolton a vital alliance in his efforts to become the ruler of the North (if it weren't for at least two strokes of good luck, the Karstarks could have destroyed Stannis).

My tally of Robb's major mistakes is thus:

- Botching the Karstark affair

- Marrying Jeyne Westerling

- Sending Theon back to the Iron Islands

- Failing to communicate properly with his subordinates (particularly Edmure and Roose)

[Masamune]

Robb's hated? Jon & Sansa have more critics than him.

If Robb's hated, then it's probably because he was the North's great white hope and he screwed it all up for a lady's honour.

[Barty]

Edmure suggested a very plausible solution: keep Rickard alive and use him as a hostage to compel the continued obedience of the remaining Karstarks. Their departure was not an insignificant blow to the fortunes of the Starks - not only did Robb lose several hundred sworn swords shortly before he was about to embark on (insofar as he knew) a hard-fought campaign to reclaim the North, it dealt a hard moral blow to his cause by solidifying his image as the "King Who Lost the North", and later on gave Roose Bolton a vital alliance in his efforts to become the ruler of the North (if it weren't for at least two strokes of good luck, the Karstarks could have destroyed Stannis).

My tally of Robb's major mistakes is thus:

- Botching the Karstark affair

- Marrying Jeyne Westerling

- Sending Theon back to the Iron Islands

- Failing to communicate properly with his subordinates (particularly Edmure and Roose)

I disagree. Robb had no option but to kill Karstark - Keeping Karstark prisoner as you(and Edmure suggested) would not have brought back the hundreds of sworn swords who abandoned Robb. As for morale - there is no evidence whatsoever that the Northmen ever lost morale because of Robb killing Karstark.

Robb made some pretty bad decisions and a few mistakes - but his cause was hurt more by the people he trusted(Theon, Rodrik, Catelyn, Roose etc) than by any mistake he personally made.

[ambi76]

Poor boy didn't meet expectations. That's all.

[zamieo]

I bet people would've loved him if he was a POV character. He had a very interesting position from a story perspective until his death, so I for one would have been happy if he had a couple of POV chapters here and there, like the battle at the Crag and the battle in the Whispering Wood, for example, and his thoughts on the road to The Twins (it'd be interesting to read about his reasoning in legitimizing Jon, for example).

I disagree. Robb had no option but to kill Karstark - Keeping Karstark prisoner as you(and Edmure suggested) would not have brought back the hundreds of sworn swords who abandoned Robb. As for morale - there is no evidence whatsoever that the Northmen ever lost morale because of Robb killing Karstark.

Robb made some pretty bad decisions and a few mistakes - but his cause was hurt more by the people he trusted(Theon, Rodrik, Catelyn, Roose etc) than by any mistake he personally made.

Yes, but isn't it a misstake on Robb's part to trust these people to begin with? I understand his choice to trust them, but sending the Greyjoy hostage back to the Greyjoys' as a messenger... To a man like Balon Greyjoy, who had nothing to gain from helping the North in their wars, really, that's begging for deception. Putting his trust in a griefing woman like Catelyn and leaving Jaime without more guards was also partly a misstake on his part. And once again, putitng your trust in a man like Roose Bolton also showed his naivety. He should've given that part of his army to someone he had utmost trust in, someone who was fiercly loyal, perhaps the Blackfish. Well, hindsight is 20/20 and of course he couldn't predict all of the events that happened, but he should've been more cautious, because he always had more to lose than he had to win.