Doctor Who: Grand Theft TARDIS

[Battle Kitten]

I thought it was great. A good nod to all the previous Doctors. We saw a bit of the Eccleston regeneration (is he still 9 or is he now 10?) which was cool. Got a glimpse of 13. It changed canon without changing it too much, Gallifrey is still gone, the 10th (11th?) doesn't remember, so on rewatch, older episodes aren't ruined.

[williamjm]

I thought that was a good episode.

I was a bit nervous beforehand that it might end up like some of the more nonsensical season finales, but despite featuring some of Moffat's trademark multiple time streams I thought it made as much sense as I expect Doctor Who to make, there are plot holes you could point out but I didn't find them to be too glaring. I suppose in retrospect it should have been obvious that if they were involving the War Doctor then they'd be trying to rewrite history to save Gallifrey and stop him committing genocide on the Timelords (admittedly, he still indirectly commits genocide on the Daleks). In some ways their solution to the Time War is similar to his solution to his death at the hands of the Silence - lie and convince the rest of the Universe that something has been destroyed when it hasn't.

I thought John Hurt was excellent (unsurprisingly) and it was nice to see Tennant again. Billie Piper being in it seemed slightly gimmicky, but I guess someone had to play the role and I like the idea of a doomsday weapon with a conscience where you have to convince it that the destruction is the right thing to do.

Although I think it was a good episode, I thought it fell a bit short of being a great one. It was lacking a strong villain, the Daleks were barely in it and the Zygons were overshadowed by the rest of the episode and apart from the four central characters most of the supporting cast was a bit bland. Some of it felt a bit lightweight when it wasn't focusing on the Time War plot, although I guess they probably had to include something to stop it feeling too serious. I still think it's better than most of the recent finales.

One question: I might have missed something, but what was the deal with Osgood? Is she meant to be Clara's sister? At first I thought it was maybe another iteration of Clara but it was a different actress.

I'm not sure what that was meant to be about, presumably if she was Clara's sister then they would recognised each other.

So given it seems that future series will see the Doctor hunting for Gallifrey, hopefully it will see the return of Rassilon (Timothy Dalton) and the Master.

I think that might be a good premise for future series, I think the show could benefit from having other Timelords back again.

ETA-

My main problem is that I always understand that Doctor didn't blew Gallifrey up, he just closed it and time, in some pocket universe when Time Lords and Daleks exterminated themselves. And he did it because Time Lords were ready to blow whole universe to ascend, right, they tried it again in TEoT. They made some monstrous things. And in film it looks like, well they are poor people of slightly modern Earth exterminated by Daleks.

I don't know much about the detailed background, but as I understand it there were many ordinary Gallifreyans and the Time Lords are only a small part of the population. I'm also unsure that it's necessarily consistent with The End of Time but then that episode never really made much sense in the first place. It's definitely true that there are risks to bringing Gallifrey back (and therefore lots of opportunities for plotlines), but I think the Doctor is right to believe that he shouldn't destroy the entire population just because some of them are more dangerous than the Daleks.

[Slick Mongoose]

My main problem is that I always understand that Doctor didn't blew Gallifrey up, he just closed it and time, in some pocket universe when Time Lords and Daleks exterminated themselves.

I thought that too? :dunce:

[protar]

I thought that too? :dunce:

I thought he destroyed the Time Lords and Daleks using the Moment and then timelocked it so no one could ever go back and change it.

[Wicked Woodpecker of West]

I don't know much about the detailed background, but as I understand it there were many ordinary Gallifreyans and the Time Lords are only a small part of the population.

Small part that was ready to blow time vortex and become genocidal gods. And they have created some real monstrosities. It shouldn't look like Dalek Invasion. It should look like Old Ones fighting Chaos Gods on the ruins of a planet.

I thought he destroyed the Time Lords and Daleks using the Moment and then timelocked it so no one could ever go back and change it.

But Rasillion and his band were clearly trying to free Gallifrey from timelocked pocket Universe.

[protar]

Small part that was ready to blow time vortex and become genocidal gods. And they have created some real monstrosities. It shouldn't look like Dalek Invasion. It should look like Old Ones fighting Chaos Gods on the ruins of a planet.

But Rasillion and his band were clearly trying to free Gallifrey from timelocked pocket Universe.

Maybe he did it the other way round? Either way timelocking clearly isn't easily accessible whereas this whole stasis concept seems much easier to get out of.

ETA: Seeing as Rose wasn't really Rose in this episode I kind of wish that they'd used Amy instead - though that's just personal preference of course.

[Derfel Cadarn]

The Rassilon scenes were before the Doctor used the Moment. My understanding is that the Monent would destroy both sides, and then time-lock it to prevent anyone going back to change it. Dalek Caan did, but was rendered mad, and the Doctors did, but that was due to the Moment itself.

[john]

Wow, Moffat really hated all the stuff RTD came up with. :P

Even the arrogant Doctor from inbetween Waters of Mars and Last of the Time Lords was done away with.

[Wicked Woodpecker of West]

I suppose Tenth arrogance went away after Mrs. Astronaut kinda shot in head Time Lord Victorious.

The Rassilon scenes were before the Doctor used the Moment. My understanding is that the Monent would destroy both sides, and then time-lock it to prevent anyone going back to change it. Dalek Caan did, but was rendered mad, and the Doctors did, but that was due to the Moment itself.

That make some sense.

[henderson]

I guess I did not like this episode as much as other posters.

Thought it was okay, at best. The episode seemed a little bit out of focus for me.

See the two different plots regarding Gallifrey and the Zygons, but thought the connection between the two plots could have been a little bit more thorough and established. I think if only one of the plots was used it would have been a little bit more focused, and a little more interesting.

I think it would have been better if this episode was split into two episodes.

Best thing about the episode was John Hurt. Too bad he is not the new doctor.

[Jon AS]

Just came back from the packed screening (apparently it was really popular, selling out multiple showings; they joked that they should give up on movies and just screen TV shows instead...). I have to say that, apart from giving David Tennant an opportunity to make fun of Matt Smith's chin in a clip before the episode proper, the 3d did not add much (though both that and the Sontaran lecture on movie theatre etiquette were amusing), but overall that was a great experience. Kinda wish I had bought a fez beforehand.

The episode itsef was good fun, I thought, and managed to be climactic without trying to outdo everything that came before (though of course it undid a lot of what defined the series since the return). The actual threat was just a run of the mill aliens-trying-to-conquer-Earth plot (admittedly, Doctor Who is one of the few franchises where that is fairly unremarkable) and the big drama came from the Doctor's defining decision. It'll be interesting how a more hopeful Doctor at peace with himself will come across in future episodes. Well, I guess Trenzalore is still waiting for him.

[dog-days]

Loved the eyes of Peter Capaldi! No wonder the Daleks dread the Doctor. I too would fear the eyes of the man who'd played the Gorbals Goebbels.

I enjoyed this episode in an uncritical, easy going way, which attitude was liberally assisted by a half bottle of red wine from the Languedoc. I even enjoyed the (to me) surprise appearance of Tom Baker. If I'd been completely sober, I'd probably have thought that it was unnecessary, sentimental and added to the problems of focus that already existed because of the large number of protagonists, and the split that Henderson mentioned between the time war plot and the zygon plot. But happily I wasn't sober, so I had a great time, and probably even brushed away tears at the thought of me aged nine watching Tom Baker on VHS in Genesis of the Daleks.

It was nice seeing David Tennant be all doctory again. And I liked the way the episode drew attention to the Old Who/New Who shift, by getting John Hurt to give acerbic comments about their habits of speech, habits of dress, and habits of kissing attractive young women.

[Wicked Woodpecker of West]

By the way how exactly Doctor and Clara managed to escape from Doctor's Grave where they met Warrior for the first time.

[alguien]

Saw it a giant screening in Seattle. Absolutely great fun.

Loved, loved, LOVED how all the Doctor's incarnation's had to join and save Gallifrey!

There were cheers when the saw the Eccleston clip, and they grew even louder when Capaldi said something to the effect of "Not 12."

Great fun. So glad I saw it in theaters. And the before and after bits in the movie theater were lovely.

[john]

I suppose Tenth arrogance went away after Mrs. Astronaut kinda shot in head Time Lord Victorious.

He's still clearly arrogant when he lands on the Ood planet bragging about shagging Lizzie I. I mean, during the episode I figured they'd changed the personal timelines of the previous Doctors but apparently that wasn't the case. Oh well, the arrogant Doctor was always a bit daft in the first place.

By the way how exactly Doctor and Clara managed to escape from Doctor's Grave where they met Warrior for the first time.

I suppose they just walked out of his timestream after the Great Intelligence was thwarted.

About the episode -

I'm also not sure what the Osgood sister thing was supposed to be about. Maybe they just wanted to give the character some depth. At first I thought the Zygon was referring to herself as Osgood's "sister" but I suppose she just found some repressed jealousy towards her sister in Osgood's mind. It was a nice touch when the two of them were sharing the asthma inhaler in the Black Archive.

We all knew there was going to be a lot more Doctors, despite the hallowed 12 regerations rule, but Baker's little cameo is the first confirmation afaik. Just need to see how it comes about now. It's a bit sad that the 11th Doctor wont get to see Gallifrey again but at least he knows he doesn't have to end up in Trenzalore.

The Christmas speacial teaser suggests we're finally going to find out what "silence will fall" means. Thank fuck.

[Larkstongue]

We all knew there was going to be a lot more Doctors, despite the hallowed 12 regerations rule, but Baker's little cameo is the first confirmation afaik. Just need to see how it comes about now.

I'm curious about how people are interpreting Tom Baker's appearance. Are you saying that the Baker we see is a later regeneration of the Doctor?

Just asking because I felt the cameo, while enjoyable in a way, made zero sense. No idea what that was supposed to be.

[williamjm]

I did wonder a bit while watching it whether the plot would work better with Ecclestone rather than Tennant, since if they wanted one Doctor mourning the death of Gallifrey and one who has appeared to have moved on from it then Ecclestone was more obviously haunted by the Time War. Of course, Ecclestone wouldn't have done it so they didn't have any choice in the matter.

The Christmas speacial teaser suggests we're finally going to find out what "silence will fall" means. Thank fuck.

I wouldn't be too thankful until we know for sure that the explanation makes sense.

[Datepalm]

I haven't watched Dr Who in ages, but hey, what insomnia will do to you...

Anyway, I was surprised by the emotional heft of it. Couldn't follow, and didn't try, and didn't care about the plot in any way, shape or form, mind. Still, that kind of bouncing back and forth between the three doctors, a person looking at themselves. The old man who was looking at his own future as these young men. You could feel how much Ten/Eleven annoyed him and exhausted him, being so nonsensical and just so modern, and yet the hopefulness and the astonishment that apparently he would still go to be capable of that. It had a nice depth to it, mostly sold by the acting, I suspect. I liked Rose's presence too, not necessarily for herself (no idea who/what she was supposed to be or what her role was) but because it allowed all these little moments with her as this invisible presence, peering over Ten's shoulder, the audience knowing what the characters don't. What has been, what will be... It would have been cheesy if they'd actually had a re-union (or pre-union, or whatever. A proper scene together, I mean) but this way it had a lightness and an irony to it that worked for me.

[Wicked Woodpecker of West]

I really hope that Thirteenth Doctor, the one after Capaldi will be the last one.

[Derfel Cadarn]

I think Baker was meant to be a future Doctor. There was mention of revisiting old faces or something.

Wicked Woodpecker, Capaldi is the 13th Doctor. Even if the show ends when Capaldi leaves, I'm pretty sure they'll leave it open for a future comeback.