Joe Pine Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Oh, lol. Well, he was Robb's brother in law and the royal banner bearer. I think Robb invited his most trusted advisers to witness without much consideration of where they came from-- these were the people that essentially formed his war council and as such it was appropriate they they were the ones to witness his decision. Fwiw, Westerling being dead is what stands out to me. I wonder...Based on a quick look at the Wiki, there's possibly not much reason to trust Raynauld other than the fact he's er.. shagging his sister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Gwynhyfvar Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Based on a quick look at the Wiki, there's possibly not much reason to trust Raynauld other than the fact he's er.. shagging his sister. Initially, but Grey Wind seemed to like him and it was pretty hard to put one over on him I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Pine Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Initially, but Grey Wind seemed to like him and it was pretty hard to put one over on him I think.Yeah, it's who Grey Wind doesn't like that's related to Raynauld that's the interesting bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindchap Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Initially, but Grey Wind seemed to like him and it was pretty hard to put one over on him I think. Isn't he the one who died trying to release Grey Wind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Gwynhyfvar Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Isn't he the one who died trying to release Grey Wind? Allegedly, yes ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aiiila Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 It can't have been too important, as GRRM was quite happy not including the Westerlings in the TV series... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squire Dalbridge Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Signers- Greatjon Umber, Maege Mormont, Jason Mallister, Edmure Tully, Galbart Glover, Raynald Westerling. Catelyn was present but did not sign. Roose was not there, he arrived at the Twins after they did, in the next chapter.Actually Roosa arrived at the Twins before, not after, Robb and his companions. The signing happened on their way to Twins, not in it. A small, but still significant matter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Wolf Smith Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Westerling sticks out in the list. For many reasons. Least of all the fact he was loyal to Robb. As the only (apparently) dead person? I am sure he is alive, and think he is the Hooded man. It can't have been too important, as GRRM was quite happy not including the Westerlings in the TV series... I would not take that with much faith. He has said that he doesn't get to make decisions on the show, and that they only know parts of the story. It could well be they don't know that part of the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aiiila Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Oh, I googled why they changed Jeyne and it said that they tried really hard to introduce the Westerlings but in the end all of them agreed to scrap that part altogether. http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Differences_between_books_and_TV_series_-_Season_3However, I do agree that the members and their short appearances seem intriguing. We can't forget Rickon, and mayhaps something may develop there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crow's Third Eye Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 is ser shadrich just a Hedge Knight? Do we know anything about these other two knights who are with him in the Vale? And finally; How does everyone seem to forget he is Varys' man? He tells Brienne that Varys rattled the purse at him at him, so does Sansa factor into Varys plans then? (i realise my.final question wasnt actually final...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aiiila Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 is ser shadrich just a Hedge Knight? Do we know anything about these other two knights who are with him in the Vale? And finally; How does everyone seem to forget he is Varys' man? He tells Brienne that Varys rattled the purse at him at him, so does Sansa factor into Varys plans then? (i realise my.final question wasnt actually final...)I think he will play a bigger part, as he seems to know who Alayne is. However, Petyr is very careful and may have realised that Ser Shadrich was from the Blackwater and has established a link to Varys. So it seems a little odd, that Littlefinger seeks knights that may be his undoing. But we'll see. The other knights were most like some men looking for something to do, as the Vale was unaffected from war.But another question: Did Tywin actually have sex with Shae? I thought he hates whores? Or did he want to hurt Tyrion in a really weird, pervert way? But if so, Tywin must've anticipated Tyrion's escape? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Of Winter Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 But another question: Did Tywin actually have sex with Shae? I thought he hates whores? Or did he want to hurt Tyrion in a really weird, pervert way? But if so, Tywin must've anticipated Tyrion's escape?First and foremost, welcome to the forum :cheers: Tywin probably had sex with Shae, which just shows what a hypocrite he is. Although, it must be noted, there is a popular theory that Varys drugged Shae and put her in Tywin's bed while Tywin was at privy; all that just to anger Tyrion. It's not the matter that Tywin hated whores, he hated publicly associating house Lannister with whores - Tyrion was famous for his whoremonging. And yes, it's quite plausible that Tywin wanted to hurt his son in a perverse way - sort of reverse Oedipal complex. How could have Tywin anticipated Tyrion's escape? He thought Tyrion was safely locked in Black Cells Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 First and foremost, welcome to the forum :cheers: Tywin probably had sex with Shae, which just shows what a hypocrite he is. Although, it must be noted, there is a popular theory that Varys drugged Shae and put her in Tywin's bed while Tywin was at privy; all that just to anger Tyrion. It's not the matter that Tywin hated whores, he hated publicly associating house Lannister with whores - Tyrion was famous for his whoremonging. And yes, it's quite plausible that Tywin wanted to hurt his son in a perverse way - sort of reverse Oedipal complex. How could have Tywin anticipated Tyrion's escape? He thought Tyrion was safely locked in Black CellsBut how could Varys have had the time to drug Shae and place her in the bed while Tywin was on the privy? He was with Jaime first and Tyrion afterwards? I know he waited for Tyrion a little while ahead in the secret tunnels, but woulsn't that have been very tricky to accomplish? I can't imagine Tywin sitting on the privy for half an hour or so. And he would have had the luck that Tywin was going to the privy at that moment.Something is definitly going on there. Tyrion was supposed to go up to Tywins chambers, Varys' lack of action in stopping Tyrion shows us that. But to ensure that Tywin was on the privy long enough, Varys would have had to had poisoned Tywin.Otherwise, the timing would have been way too much coincidental I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Of Winter Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Rhaenys_Targaryen: I agree with most of your points. Personally, I don't agree with the theory. This famous "Varys drugged Shae" theory was proposed and discussed few years back, so probably you won't find anything when searching the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Rhaenys_Targaryen: I agree with most of your points. Personally, I don't agree with the theory. This famous "Varys drugged Shae" theory was proposed and discussed few years back, so probably you won't find anything when searching the forum. Agreed. Tywin probably just slept with Shae. There is a tunnel leading to a brothel, build for a Hand who wanted to keep his whoring a secret. This Hand could have been Tywin. It would be perfect irony. A man who hates having his family name associated with whores, sleeping with whores himself. Maybe Varys hoped that Tyrion would walk in on Tywin and Shae in bed together. Tyrion could Always escape through the tunnels again. No grown man could easily follow him through there anyway. The fact that Tyrion had a chance to kill Tywin was just good luck. If he hadn't done so, Varys could have killed Tywin later on, and make Cersei suspect Tyrion in one way or another, making her think this was Tyrions way of taking revenge on Tywin or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Evil Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Is there an SSM where Martin confirms that it was Elia with Aegon in Dany's HoTU vision? If so, please provide a link. I have seen many people make that claim but no one seems able to provide a link to the source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yolkboy Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 is Marselen a fully trained unsullied or a half-trained that was made to join the freedmen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 It can't have been too important, as GRRM was quite happy not including the Westerlings in the TV series... Martin doesn't control the TV series. He writes one episode a year and even there is confined to the plot outline that Beinoff and Weiss give him. It's probably a mistake to use the TV series to draw conclusions about what will or won't be important in the books. Is there an SSM where Martin confirms that it was Elia with Aegon in Dany's HoTU vision? If so, please provide a link. I have seen many people make that claim but no one seems able to provide a link to the source. There is no SSM on the subject (unless it's mentioned in one of the video entries.) Still I think it's a pretty reasonable assumption that it was Rhaegar and Elia in the vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 is Marselen a fully trained unsullied or a half-trained that was made to join the freedmen? He's a regular unsullied who took charge of one of the groups of freedmen to train and command them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yolkboy Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 He's a regular unsullied who took charge of one of the groups of freedmen to train and command them. how are you sure of this? I cant see anything of wearing a helmet or definitive to say he'd finished his training. I just want to be sure about this one. He was purchsed along with the unsullied, but in that transaction, the half trained were bought too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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