Sansa and birds: a false lead?

[Meshuggah]

So wouldn't it be a little odd for Sansa, who has been percieved as nothing but caged bird or harmless little bird through out the whole series to turn out to be just that. A caged little bird.

True, the idea of the caged bird escaping her cage finally is appealing. But what about others in the series like Arya, who has shown us that while you can change your appearance or how you act (in Arya's case to hide, and then later completely try and erase her own identity) you can't change what's on the inside. In Arya's case, a wolf.

But isn't Sansa a wolf, too?

So Sansa is the winged wolf?

[Dany Girl]

Tully is a fish House Ayrrn and house Baelish are types of birds though.

Edit Ninjaed

Baelish is a Titan not bird

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

So Sansa is the winged wolf?

Its possible but I think it is Bran.

[Jon of the Dead]

I agree with whoever said it foreshadows Sansa passing information to Varys.

Specifically, I think Sansa will use Shadrich the Mad Mouse as a messenger, to tell Varys about LF's plans, because Shadrich is working for Varys

[butterbumps!]

Hopefully Sansa will die in the next book. Useless tart.

I know I'm expected to rain down on this with fire and blood, but it made me laugh.

You know, bird imagery would actually make a really good topic, from Aemon's "hawk, dove, raven" speech, to the transformation of bird symbolism in Sansa's arc, crows, etc.

I don't really have too much time to write out anything major here, only that Sansa was originally called the little bird referring to songbirds (like the one Tyrion gave to Shae), and was meant in relation to just repeating back the pretty songs she was taught as a way of keeping herself from harm. Stage 2 seems to be the mockingbird, which mimics the sounds of other animals to deflect attention, as part of LF's "clean hands" platform. But simultaneously, she's grown envious of the birds of prey she sees flying around the Eyrie, and like others said, I think this is at least foreshadowing Sansa coming into her own power, if not a literal hint at skin changing into a powerful bird-- that is, I think it's a hint she's not satisfied with the way LF operates in shadow.

It might be worth pointing out that in Sansa's last FFC chapter, she hears the wind howl and thinks it sounds like a "ghost wolf," which seems like a pretty strong connection to Jon.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

I know I'm expected to rain down on this with fire and blood, but it made me laugh.

You know, bird imagery would actually make a really good topic, from Aemon's "hawk, dove, raven" speech, to the transformation of bird symbolism in Sansa's arc, crows, etc.

I don't really have too much time to write out anything major here, only that Sansa was originally called the little bird referring to songbirds (like the one Tyrion gave to Shae), and was meant in relation to just repeating back the pretty songs she was taught as a way of keeping herself from harm. Stage 2 seems to be the mockingbird, which mimics the sounds of other animals to deflect attention, as part of LF's "clean hands" platform. But simultaneously, she's grown envious of the birds of prey she sees flying around the Eyrie, and like others said, I think this is at least foreshadowing Sansa coming into her own power, if not a literal hint at skin changing into a powerful bird-- that is, I think it's a hint she's not satisfied with the way LF operates in shadow.

It might be worth pointing out that in Sansa's last FFC chapter, she hears the wind howl and thinks it sounds like a "ghost wolf," which seems like a pretty strong connection to Jon.

On bird imagery I just wanted to add that Euron is called the "Crow's eye" and he has 1 eye the other is something else and his sigil has 1 eye and Bloodraven has one eye as well and is the 3 eyed crow, perhaps there is some connection between them since Euron said he had dreams like Bran when he was young "flying".

Just a bit of crackpot I may be wrong but I was thinking "Crow's eye" may mean an eye of the 3 eyed crow.

[bbstark]

I know I'm expected to rain down on this with fire and blood, but it made me laugh.

You know, bird imagery would actually make a really good topic, from Aemon's "hawk, dove, raven" speech, to the transformation of bird symbolism in Sansa's arc, crows, etc.

I don't really have too much time to write out anything major here, only that Sansa was originally called the little bird referring to songbirds (like the one Tyrion gave to Shae), and was meant in relation to just repeating back the pretty songs she was taught as a way of keeping herself from harm. Stage 2 seems to be the mockingbird, which mimics the sounds of other animals to deflect attention, as part of LF's "clean hands" platform. But simultaneously, she's grown envious of the birds of prey she sees flying around the Eyrie, and like others said, I think this is at least foreshadowing Sansa coming into her own power, if not a literal hint at skin changing into a powerful bird-- that is, I think it's a hint she's not satisfied with the way LF operates in shadow.

It might be worth pointing out that in Sansa's last FFC chapter, she hears the wind howl and thinks it sounds like a "ghost wolf," which seems like a pretty strong connection to Jon.

oh, I don't know bumps, I think neither the uselessnes nor the tartiness of Sansa has been fully explored on the forum. I know this from an extensive search query that I performed, which I named "glancing at the first page of the general forum".

I definitely think there needs to be a rethinking Sansa the tart thread, without it, I find the forum insufficiently informative.

anyhooo.... agree on the bird analysis; I guess my addition would be that the Eyrie itself, and the sigil of house Arryn (it's a falcon, not an eagle, I checked) is a symbol, if not a more obvious/hamhanded one than her sentiment toward birds of prey she observes, of where Sansa's transformation is headed.

In the high nest of the falcon, little birds become predators.

[Rahgh Neqaj]

Interesting idea her taking a bird's body to fly away, to spy or simply get away.

I don't think we have had any glimpse of her having such habilities, or being likely to have them, such as weird dreams, like the ones Bran and Arya have. Still a possibility and an interesting one.

Sansa being compared to a bird simply because she is physically delicate and her general behaviour, and the fact that she has been caged for most of the story also fits very well, and could be simply just that.

We've got (at least) two SSMs that state explicitly that all Stark children (including Sansa) are wargs: http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Borders_Signing_Oregon and http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Quite_a_Few_Questions

[Queen Sansa Stark]

So Sansa is the winged wolf?

Well after she escaped from the purple wedding people in King's Landing did speculate she escaped because she warged into a winged wolf. Who knows.

[Dead Wolf]

I agree with whoever said it foreshadows Sansa passing information to Varys.

Specifically, I think Sansa will use Shadrich the Mad Mouse as a messenger, to tell Varys about LF's plans, because Shadrich is working for Varys

It was me and i agree about the Mad Mouse

[Mladen]

I know I'm expected to rain down on this with fire and blood, but it made me laugh.

oh, I don't know bumps, I think neither the uselessnes nor the tartiness of Sansa has been fully explored on the forum. I know this from an extensive search query that I performed, which I named "glancing at the first page of the general forum".

I definitely think there needs to be a rethinking Sansa the tart thread, without it, I find the forum insufficiently informative.

Ahem, ahem... Do I need to get involved in this? Because if I do, there will be thunders, lightening storms, earthquakes and wildfire...

You know, bird imagery would actually make a really good topic, from Aemon's "hawk, dove, raven" speech, to the transformation of bird symbolism in Sansa's arc, crows, etc.

I don't really have too much time to write out anything major here, only that Sansa was originally called the little bird referring to songbirds (like the one Tyrion gave to Shae), and was meant in relation to just repeating back the pretty songs she was taught as a way of keeping herself from harm. Stage 2 seems to be the mockingbird, which mimics the sounds of other animals to deflect attention, as part of LF's "clean hands" platform. But simultaneously, she's grown envious of the birds of prey she sees flying around the Eyrie, and like others said, I think this is at least foreshadowing Sansa coming into her own power, if not a literal hint at skin changing into a powerful bird-- that is, I think it's a hint she's not satisfied with the way LF operates in shadow.

It might be worth pointing out that in Sansa's last FFC chapter, she hears the wind howl and thinks it sounds like a "ghost wolf," which seems like a pretty strong connection to Jon.

I agree... Nice catch, dear...

[butterbumps!]

anyhooo.... agree on the bird analysis; I guess my addition would be that the Eyrie itself, and the sigil of house Arryn (it's a falcon, not an eagle, I checked) is a symbol, if not a more obvious/hamhanded one than her sentiment toward birds of prey she observes, of where Sansa's transformation is headed.

In the high nest of the falcon, little birds become predators.

lol, yes, Arryn is definitely a falcon. Mallister is the eagle I think. I think there's a chance she might be unintentionally skin-changing. I know there's a passage in Sansa I FFC where it says that when she closed her eyes she could see Marillon in his cell, but without much else, I'm not sure if this reflects her imagination or an actual vision.

On bird imagery I just wanted to add that Euron is called the "Crow's eye" and he has 1 eye the other is something else and his sigil has 1 eye and Bloodraven has one eye as well and is the 3 eyed crow, perhaps there is some connection between them since Euron said he had dreams like Bran when he was young "flying".

Just a bit of crackpot I may be wrong but I was thinking "Crow's eye" may mean an eye of the 3 eyed crow.

Yea, I think there's something going on with that too. To add to more in-story bird parables, Mance wears a raven-wing helm (I think he might have something to do with Bloodraven too), there's Orell vs. Jon and Ghost, Meribald's sandpiper and sea eagle lesson off the top of my head.

Ahem, ahem... Do I need to get involved in this? Because if I do, there will be thunders, lightening storms, earthquakes and wildfire...

I don't think there's anything to get involved in. I genuinely laughed.

[MasterJack]

Sansa is LF's little bird, she will become a great pragmatist manipulator who doesnt care if she has to sell littleboy if she can get to her goal.

[hardhome]

Baelish is a Titan not bird

My mistake I was thinking TV

[LugaJetboyGirl]

Can warged animals warg into their people? IOW, can there be a bit of Lady inside Sansa?

I think these are great points about Sansa as the bird of prey who will rule from the Vale, with her little bird spies. I'm a fan.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

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Can warged animals warg into their people? IOW, can there be a bit of Lady inside Sansa?

I think these are great points about Sansa as the bird of prey who will rule from the Vale, with her little bird spies. I'm a fan.

Yea Jojen tells Bran there is a bit of Summer in him and a bit of Bran in Summer.

[Grail King]

Outside of the wolf connection from her Stark blood, Sansa has been associated with (through books and show) quite a few winged creatures.

After Ned's death, we see a lot of dragonfly imagery with Sansa. She wears them as jewelry constantly, and it's fitting considering that dragonflies symbolize the following:

• The opening of one's eyes - Sansa had a very rude awakening to how the world (and the Lannisters) operate

Defeat of self-created illusions - Sansa's ideas of knights and chivalry, her "beloved" Joffrey, etc. are all put down

Maturity and depth of character - Sansa took a lesson in growing up the hard way, and after GoT, we're presented with a far more mature and changing Sansa

Power and Poise - Courtesy is a Lady's armor, and "my skin has changed from porcelain, to ivory, to steel". Sansa is earning her black belt it politeness judo.

Focus on living 'in' the moment - Which is what Sansa has to do to survive, both in the Vale and in KL.

As Zunni commented on in his essay on Sansa and Harrenhal, Sansa's flight from KL leads the smallfolk to comment that she turned into a wolf with bat wings and flew away. Now, this could just be interesting imagery with no other meaning, but it still alludes to Sansa's ties to Harrenhal and house Whent through her mother's side. House Whent's "totem" is the bat, and the bat imagery was specifically used in reference to Sansa fleeing with LF and arriving in the Vale.

• Journeying - Well, that's pretty self-explanatory

Rebirth - Again, self-explanatory, with Sansa going from a Stark to a Stone. Also with her going from a person with no power or agency to someone practically running the day-to-day of the Vale

Illusion - Sansa becomes Alayne

Inner Depth - I think we can argue that Sansa's internal growth and her growing understanding of politicking is kicked into a much higher degree here

Intuition - Again, her flight and following stay at the Vale shows her intuition growing to a large degree. "Lies and arbor gold."

Then there's the biggest comparison, which is Sansa constantly being compared to "little bird" or, I believe in some examples, "little dove." It's already been covered above that birds stand for freedom, and I still think a large part of Sansa's arc is her move toward freedom. House Arryn's "totem" is an eagle. Harrold Hardyng has his prized birds. Most of the birds associated with the Vale, that we've seen, are associated with powerful birds and freedom. We have a "caged bird" essentially moved from a lion's nest of thorns to a territory associated with flight and freedom. I'd say that's a pretty powerful hint, at the least, that Sansa's journey is going to be of her escaping her cage.

Even if she's a "little bird" and not a hawk or an eagle, that doesn't mean she can't be deadly. Look at the shrike (conveniently House Stark colored at that).

As for skin-changing, unless she manages to warg Nymeria over in the Riverlands, if Sansa's going to come into her abilities at all, it would about have to be something with wings. She's simply surrounded by too much winged creature imagery for me to buy it being something else.

Poor LF

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq8MAEBP8Ac

Also known as a song bird.

[BanzaiZ]

Poor LF

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq8MAEBP8Ac

Also known as a song bird.

Also known as the Butcher Bird. :D

(I incorrectly attributed House Arryn's 'totem' to be an eagle. As corrected above in the thread, it is a falcon).

[The Mother of The Others]

It's something to chirp about.

[RedChick]

I believe that her being called "little bird" foreshadows that she'll be working with Varys to bring down Littlefinger

Ohhh... I like this possible foreshadowing. It's very interesting that Varys is also looking for Sansa right now (see Mad Mouse Shadrich).