Why did Stannis marry Selyse?

[Gurkhal]

The Stannis Florent marriage is a good one.

1. They're a rich and powerful house

People say the Florent's only have 2000 men. That's a shitload of men, have you ever seen two thousand men? Yes many houses have more but it's not a number to be laughed at. Many lords retainers are more like Eustace Osgrey'd or Rohanne Webber's.

They have a strong castle and wealthy lands. Remember Garlan Tyrell is described as being made "a great-lord" when it's given to him. No doubt they gave a substantial dowry to Stannis as well. Something that is useful for a fresh new Lord setting up his household.

2. It weakens the Tyrells

The Florent men are actually worth twofold their number. As every man fighting for Robert is a man not fighting for the Tyrells. So the Baratheons get +2k, the Tyrells -2k.

Furthermore they have a claim to Highgarden through the Gardener line. If the Tyrells ever need replacing many Reach Lords would accept a Florent as overlord rather than a foreigner from another Kingdom.

Finally if the Florent's don't back the Tyrells in a war, other houses might decide to follow their behaviour and jump ship. Houses like Fossoway, Meadows, Mullendore and others might changes sides too. Remember Stannis took a pretty decent chunk of Reachmen with him to the Blackwater.

To bad we don't have the "like" button anymore because this is and excellent post.

[Minsc]

It is being assumed here that Robert arranged the match.

What if it was their father Steffon, who arranged the betrothal prior to their death (as they did between Robert and Lyanna).

Stannis is not the sort to break such an arrangement.

That would work well with the idea of how Steffon was likely in league with Rickard, Hoster, Jon Arryn with coming up with their Southern Strategies as that would give them an in with the Reach for when they opposed the Targaryens. In how, the main Tyrells wouldn't have had girl close to marrying age when they were developing those alliances.

[GallowsKnight]

I don't think the match pre-dates the rebellions. Stannis was simply a landless knight at that points despite his powerful family.

But if it's after the rebellion the Florent's have plenty of reasons. (A counterpoint to my previous post)

1. He's brother to the King, any descendants of their union have a chance at being King/Queen of Westeros should Robert's line waver

2. He's a great Lord, he has ~3000k men to his banner, a famous and intimidating castle and an important government seat.

3. He gives them a longshot at being Lord-Paramounts if the Tyrell's rebel.

[Mithras]

Lleyton Hightower and Randyll Tarly have Florent wives. I think this is a clear message to Tyrells. Robert says "I can take your overlord status and your powerful vassals easily"

[GallowsKnight]

Lleyton Hightower and Randyll Tarly have Florent wives. I think this is a clear message to Tyrells. Robert says "I can take your overlord status and your powerful vassals easily"

Lleyton Hightowever does have a Florent wife. But his son-in-law is Mace Tyrell. They've also got Redwyne ties, the Redwynes being connected to the Tyrell's quite strongly too. The Queen of Thornes being originally a Redwyne. So the Hightowers are likely still quite strongly in Mace Tyrell's camp if there's conflict.

Randyl Tarly does have Florent wife. But he already has an important position as the Tyrell's chief commander. If anything he might use his wife's connections to try and get Brightwater for his house in any civil war.

The more likely houses that would join Robert are those that fought with Stannis on the Blackwater. Houses that while important are not in closest circle of Mace's bannermen. Houses that want to move up in the world.

So houses like Fossoway, Mullendore, Meadows, Varner and Willum.

[The Raging Bull]

great question. Who knows. I don't see why Robert would have made him marry a Florent, unless it was just to piss him off like when he gave Storms End to Renly. He could have been used in a much more advantageous way. A number of bigger houses would have accepted the proposal and could have strengthened Roberts position. Alas I think it might be something that we will have to leave to speculation as I doubt GRRM will ever assess his reasoning for marrying a Florent.

[Anath]

Because Robert meant it as a warning and punishment to the Tyrrels.

[CosimaistheHottest]

Is it possible that no one important to Stannis's camp really knew what Selyse looked like until the arrangement had already been sealed? Or the person did and didn't feel obliged to tell as long as she would prove to be a good breeder. It's always possible that some people would try to play up her other good qualities to seal the deal especially when you have someone who people think doesn't care for a bride either way much less a pretty one.

[GallowsKnight]

Is it possible that no one really knew what Selyse looked like until the arrangement had already been sealed? It's always possible that some people would try to play up her other good qualities to seal the deal especially when you have someone who people think doesn't care for a bride either way much less a pretty one.

It seems odd but her looks are really the least important thing in an arranged marriage like this. The wealth and political advantage is what they want. Whether she is comely or not less so.

great question. Who knows. I don't see why Robert would have made him marry a Florent, unless it was just to piss him off like when he gave Storms End to Renly. He could have been used in a much more advantageous way. A number of bigger houses would have accepted the proposal and could have strengthened Roberts position. Alas I think it might be something that we will have to leave to speculation as I doubt GRRM will ever assess his reasoning for marrying a Florent.

Name a better match.

Neither Arianne Martell or Margaery Tyrell or Asha Greyjoy were old enough. And any of their father's consenting is unlikely.

There's no reason to marry someone from the Vale, North, Riverlands, Stormlands or West as they're allies.

Perhaps Ynys Yronwood? But we don't know how old she is.

Perhaps a Hightower? Like Lynesse. The only problem is they're equally as tied to the Tyrells through marriage. And they've got no reason to move against the Tyrell's like the Florent's do.

[CosimaistheHottest]

It seems odd but her looks are really the least important thing in an arranged marriage like this. The wealth and political advantage is what they want. Whether she is comely or not less so.

Oh yeah I know. I was thinking about it in terms of people saying that Robert deliberately chose an unattractive bride for his brother and it was just Robert being mean again. Just trying to give the benefit of the doubt.

[TheWizard]

Im sure someone has said this in the four pages but the Florents have a old claim to Highgarden from the previous house Gardner. Basically a message saying if you dont play along with the new king we will replace you with the Florents. Having Stannis married into the family insures Robert has a stable commander close to the Reach. Stannis and his iron will is perfect for subduing a populace if a change of leadership is needed.

[GallowsKnight]

Oh yeah I know. I was thinking about it in terms of people saying that Robert deliberately chose an unattractive bride for his brother and it was just Robert being mean again. Just trying to give the benefit of the doubt.

I don't think he chose her because she was ugly. I imagine Jon Arryn made the match with all the advantages I mentioned above and THEN Robert found it hilarious how unattractive she was.

There's a good question of why he didn't marry Delana Florent. The younger cousin Robert soiled. But she is further down in the line of succession.

[Bronn Urgandy]

Asha Greyjoy in Dance:

Says more about Asha and her cock envy than it does about Stannis, who is clearly an introvert and not entirely comfortable around women or with the idea of sex in general, which would make sense considering his brother is a whore-monger and he's always been in his shadow. As for disliking them, no, I still think thats just Asha being ultra feminist.

The second quote simply shows us what Asha thinks of Stannis. It's not showing us some action or behavior that Stannis did. I'm sure you'll see it as unreasonable, but I expect a little more than his captive's opinion of him.

Exactly. The guys an ultra introvert in a position of power, which is why he tries to compensate by being so bloody rude to the likes of Janos Slynt (introvert =/= being shy, also, like a lot of introverts he seems to want to be liked, but will not change in order to achieve that). Not being comfortable around women =/= not liking them, often it is the opposite, see his hard line against rapists.

Now, I've done enough here explaining my posts to you & finding you SOME of the quotes to back it up. I'm not going to spend hours gathering all quotes from Davos chapters that show how he regards his OWN WIFE.

You have read the descriptions of Selyse Baratheon? I mean, bloody hell she seems like hard work.

No, I'm not trying to prove anything.

I made a joke. I explained that & apologized for the misinterpretation. That wasn't good enough for you dispite not having anything dispute.

I also gave an interpretaton of the texts & explained that. That wasn't good enough for you dispite not having anything dispute.

You insisted I provide proof of my interpretation from the texts and you do not accept that. I could argue your interpretations but you have already show that nothing will be good enough for you.

Yet all the while I asked for a better interpretation & you refused to give me one. So really, unless you can provide a better reason for why Stannis is seen displaying dicomfort around women, I will continue to perceive that Stannis is not fond of women.

Its the whole "Stannis is iron" thing. Much as I like Donal Noye, I distrust anyone who thinks of Robert as steel (Ned included). Much as I distrust a disinherited, cock envious woman raised as a mans opinions of sexism.

[Iona]

Is it possible that no one important to Stannis's camp really knew what Selyse looked like until the arrangement had already been sealed? Or the person did and didn't feel obliged to tell as long as she would prove to be a good breeder. It's always possible that some people would try to play up her other good qualities to seal the deal especially when you have someone who people think doesn't care for a bride either way much less a pretty one.

I bet a fair number of people in the Seven Kingdoms had knowledge of the "unfortunate Florent ears"... :/

[aceluby]

great question. Who knows. I don't see why Robert would have made him marry a Florent, unless it was just to piss him off like when he gave Storms End to Renly. He could have been used in a much more advantageous way. A number of bigger houses would have accepted the proposal and could have strengthened Roberts position. Alas I think it might be something that we will have to leave to speculation as I doubt GRRM will ever assess his reasoning for marrying a Florent.

He didn't 'give' Storm's End to Renly. He gave Dragonstone to Stannis as an honor being the heir to the throne and Renly was next in line for Storm's End.

[TepidHands]

Much as I distrust a disinherited, cock envious woman raised as a mans opinions of sexism.

Wow. That's a, well, um, unique way of reading Asha.

[Kungsmurfen]

Since Mace was fighting against Robert in the rebellion it could be Robert forcing/asking Stannis to marry Selyse because then Robert could easier press the Florents claim to Highgarden if Mace ever decided to go against him again.

[Draco_Dracul]

He didn't 'give' Storm's End to Renly. He gave Dragonstone to Stannis as an honor being the heir to the throne and Renly was next in line for Storm's End.

No, he gave Renly Storm's end as there was no obligation for him not to keep Storm's End. That said he was perfectly within his rights to keep or give away Storm's End as he saw fit.

[Lady Sharya]

Much as I distrust a disinherited, cock envious woman raised as a mans opinions of sexism.

Wow. That's a, well, um, unique way of reading Asha.

This is simply what some boys do when they don't have an intelligent explanation for why the books directly contradict their views of favorate "Heros".

He didn't get the 1980's memo when Freud's Penis Envy theory was discredited as a patriarchal view of upper-class Vienisean women...a mistake GRRM clearly didn't incorporated into Asha's character.

[Iona]

He didn't 'give' Storm's End to Renly. He gave Dragonstone to Stannis as an honor being the heir to the throne and Renly was next in line for Storm's End.

There was another sort of explanation for this in the GoT Extras, can't remember if it was the bit about Stannis or Dragonstone, but we get Stannis grinding his teeth and saying that Robert gave Storm's End to Renly and shoved Dragonstone to him as a punishment for not capturing Viserys and Dany after Robert's Rebellion. Not canon, but still a viable option.