SIrDuncan the Tall Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 The speculation is based on textual evidence. The rest of your post reads like fanfiction to me. Ya the thread is what if lyanna survived. Was just throwing out an idea of how she might of survived, and where she might be. This would protect the reputation of her and the family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMysteriousOne Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 1.He could do nothing for them rather just starting a new war. 2. Their name was Targaryen making them the enemy. He had no reason to care for his enemy. Would Aerys or the Targs in general care if Renly died or not? Don't think so. 1. He didn't have to start a war. He didn't even have to punish Tywin, which would have been (arguably) political suicide. All he had to was execute Gregor and Amory Lorch for doing the deed. 2. Like I said before, just because some people commit horrible, doesn't excuse or justify your horrible actions. I'm pretty sure Aerys wouldn't have cared, but he was insane. I'm sure that Rhaella and Rhaegar would've cared to hear about Renly being brutally murdered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 1. He didn't have to start a war. He didn't even have to punish Tywin, which would have been (arguably) political suicide. All he had to was execute Gregor and Amory Lorch for doing the deed. He couldn't do that since you know they were Tywin's men. 2. Like I said before, just because some people commit horrible, doesn't excuse or justify your horrible actions. I'm pretty sure Aerys wouldn't have cared, but he was insane. I'm sure that Rhaella and Rhaegar would've cared to hear about Renly being brutally murdered. The same Rhaegar who abandoned his childer would care about what happened to another child? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMysteriousOne Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 He couldn't do that since you know they were Tywin's men. The same Rhaegar who abandoned his childer would care about what happened to another child? Gregor and Amory Lorch were in no way indisposable. They were of little value and importance to Tywin. I'm pretty sure that most people would care about a baby boy getting his head dashed against a wall, and a little girl getting stabbed half a hundred times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Ya the thread is what if lyanna survived. Was just throwing out an idea of how she might of survived, and where she might be. This would protect the reputation of her and the family. Understood. Ah...the joy of yet another "what if" thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Gregor and Amory Lorch were in no way indisposable. They were of little value and importance to Tywin. Yet they were his men and they were his men who do the dirty work. We lose them? I'm pretty sure that most people would care about a baby boy getting his head dashed against a wall, and a little girl getting stabbed half a hundred times. Would they? Because the only who care are their family the Martells no one else seem to care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMysteriousOne Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Yet they were his men and they were his men who do the dirty work. We lose them? Would they? Because the only who care are their family the Martells no one else seem to care. I'm pretty sure that Tywin would agree to let two almost nobodies die, since Robert was marrying his daughter. Ned and Tyrion cared. Even Tywin thought that what happened to the Targaryen children was excessive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosimaistheHottest Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Robert and Lyanna wouldnt marry. Robert loves a dead Lyanna not a live one. I know he is an ass and a terrible human being, but give young Robert some credit. He was able to keep a delusional image of his love for Lyanna because she was dead. Her being alive changes everything. I don't know if Ned would still be able to claim Jon as his own. Because its already strange that people didnt think Lyanna could have possibly gotten pregnant during her time away. To have Lyanna alive claiming that she went willingly and to have Ned saying Jon was his son. I don't know if people would really believe that. She probably would go into exile. It would be the best for everyone involved including herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Would they? Because the only who care are their family the Martells no one else seem to care. Oh, dear, there are so many wrong things in this sentence... Ned cared, as did Stannis, Jon Arryn also cared because he was peacemaker in the Kingdom. Then we know Catelyn was thrown about that, then we have Thoros mentioning it... People cares. They couldn't have done anything, but they cared. Heck, some people in KL called famine as Gods' punishment for Aegon's and Rheanys; deaths... I honestly have to say that logic behind your arguments is beyond flawed, but given that TheMysteriousOne is doing such great job in pointing that out, I don't want to put salt on those wounds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I'm pretty sure that Tywin would agree to let two almost nobodies die, since Robert was marrying his daughter. What make you think that if Lyanna was alive he would marry Cersei? Ned and Tyrion cared. Even Tywin thought that what happened to the Targaryen children was excessive. The powerless Ned and even more powerless Tyrion? And why exactly they matter? And more importanly what exactly they did to *bring justice*, when there was no reason to, for their deaths? Oh, dear, there are so many wrong things in this sentence... Ned cared, as did Stannis, Jon Arryn also cared because he was peacemaker in the Kingdom. Then we know Catelyn was thrown about that, then we have Thoros mentioning it... People cares. They couldn't have done anything, but they cared. Heck, some people in KL called famine as Gods' punishment for Aegon's and Rheanys; deaths... That is my point. They cared but they couldn't do nothing. How could Robert do something when the murders have already been commited? And more importantly: Why should Robert care? Because they were children? Hundrents of children died during the Rebellion and no one cared for them, why they should been an exception? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Would he? How would the Northern Lords react if they learn that they died for a girl's caprice? What make you think that they couldn't revolt after fighting for nothing because Lyanna's actions?.The Starks only raised their banners because Ned's life was threatened and The Lord of Winterfell and his heir was murdered, the men of the North are ready to fight for any StarkLets also remember that Northern men rode and died with Ned just to get some girl back that happened to be a StarkLet's also remember that these same Northern men answered Robb's call to take on an army just to free a Stark Also these Northmen are daring a snowstorm, starvation, death and other things for a Stark and theirsSo I think the Northmen are good with risking their lives for a girl's caprice since she's a Stark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 That is my point. They cared but they couldn't do nothing. How could Robert do something when the murders have already been commited? And more importantly: Why should Robert care? Because they were children? Hundrents of children died during the Rebellion and no one cared for them, why they should been an exception? He could have punished Lorch and Mountain. He didn't. And that created a strife between Starks and Lannisters, alienated Dorne further/ If you are arguing that Robert shouldn't care, then I simple have nothing to say... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 The Starks only raised their banners because Ned's life was threatened and The Lord of Winterfell and his heir was murdered, the men of the North are ready to fight for any Stark And Ned's life was threatened because of Lyanna's actions. Lets also remember that Northern men rode and died with Ned just to get some girl back that happened to be a Stark Yes, but they don't died because of her actions. They died to bring her back but it wasn't her fault they had to do it. Let's also remember that these same Northern men answered Robb's call to take on an army just to free a Stark Again. They did followed Robb but Robb wasn't the one who fault them, Joff was. So I think the Northmen are good with risking their lives for a girl's caprice since she's a Stark Don't think so. If she fault them, if she created the chaos I don't think they would thank her for that. If you are arguing that Robert shouldn't care, then I simple have nothing to say... That is exactly what I say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 That is exactly what I say. Just to inform you, that I have bookmarked this post of yours, for the next time you start the usual hate ranting about Catelyn and Jon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Just to inform you, that I have bookmarked this post of yours, for the next time you start the usual hate ranting about Catelyn and Jon... Ok. But it goes the both ways. Meaning if something is right for D and not right for J, then the same thing could be right for J and not right for D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alayne's Shadow. Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 And more importantly: Why should Robert care? Because they were children? Hundrents of children died during the Rebellion and no one cared for them, why they should been an exception? They weren't just children. They were the Targaryen Heirs. Robert should have cared, and the fact that he dismissed their deaths is the reason why I can't stand the guy. What they did, or Elia for all we know, to deserve that? Mostly, the fact that nobles get more attention is just obvious. If that's an argumment, then nobody should care about Robb's death, because how many young men died at the WOTFK?People care, because the way they died is just too brutal, just like people care about the Red Wedding, even though they are not Starks. It's just so despicable that Robert justified the deaths of them that up to this day, fifteen years later, people still care about what happened to Elia Martell, Rhaenys and Aegon. To treat life as "Just Enemies" is awful. They didn't fought Rhaegar's wars, they were small children. You are basically saying Tywin's government was in the right and extermination is okay as long as they are "enemies." You are also justifying Dany's numerous deaths in the Slaver's Bay, after all, they were just "her enemies." And no, the Reach wouldn't support Robert. Why should they? They just defended the Targaryen, and now they are entering another war to defend Robert? Doesn't seem likely. And Tywin wouldn't go to war to make Robert marry Lyanna instead of Cersei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Ok. But it goes the both ways. Meaning No, you can't argue two opposite things when it suits you... If you reprehend Catelyn for her behavior towards Jon, and now exonerate Robert for his behavior towards death of Targaryen babes, then I hope you know how hypocritical that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 He could have punished Lorch and Mountain. He didn't. And that created a strife between Starks and Lannisters, alienated Dorne further/ If you are arguing that Robert shouldn't care, then I simple have nothing to say... Starks and Baratheons as well. Ned rode out of KL seething, having given Robert the clear cut about it. Only a full year and the grief about Lyanna reconciled them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Sinse the children's father/family didn't cared about them, why should Robert give a second though on them? Honestly, you see no problem with Robert shrugging his shoulders over the murder of two innocent children? Yet, at the same time you repeatedly condemn another character because she was cold(and thus in your opinion abusive) to a child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 They weren't just children. They were the Targaryen Heirs. Robert should have cared I will stope you right there. Why should Robert care? No, you can't argue two opposite things when it suits you... If you reprehend Catelyn for her behavior towards Jon, and now exonerate Robert for his behavior towards death of Targaryen babes, then I hope you know how hypocritical that is. But if Robert's actions/behavior towards Targs' are atrocity doesn't the same apply to Cat too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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