Best TV Show Ever?

[Ran]

I'd compare Game of Thrones and Deadwood, generally speaking. The past is another country, etc. and so comes closer in a lot of respects to the various things GoT does than The Wire. The main thing about The Wire is that it was often seen as a kind of novel-on-television, with a lot of novelistic structure and traits. Very much a social novel in televised form. The way the show was able to weave together a disparate cast, from City Hall down to the most hopeless addict, was something special.

[Erkan12]

Not the best. But it is not average either, thats for sure.

[Abaddon]

Stop it.

Fine. You're wrong. I'm done.

[Ser Tahu]

I don't think it's really fair to compare completed series' with ones that are still ongoing.

Out of the completed series' I have seen my favourite would, by far, be Breaking Bad. it would have been Dexter if the last 4 seasons retained even a shred of the brilliance of the first four, though. DISCLAIMER: I have yet to see The Wire, The Sopranos, Rome or Deadwood.

Out of the ongoing series' I watch Game of Thrones would be my favourite, although Vikings season 2 is definitely giving it a run for its money.

[Ahri Adaran]

The thing with the GoT TV show is that while it has its weaknesses the things it is the best at (scope, ambition, set design, costuming, child actors that don't suck, being able to pack an emotional punch, etc. etc.) I don't think have been topped by another other TV show. A lot of this has already been discussed upthread but one thing GoT has on the Wire is that it has much more of a grand series-long story arc. The Wire's seasons and individual episodes were put together in a much tighter manner and doesn't have the GoT's staccato pacing, filler, what looks like clumsy last minute changes and dropped threads but with the Wire it's obvious that they planned things out season by season without much in the way of long term plans beyond the end of the current season, which really shows in a couple of cases and which causes a lot of trouble in a lot of other TV shows (Lost especially).

GoT on the other hand has multi-season plot threads that were obviously planned out ahead of time (easy to do since they have Martin to lean on) and there all kinds of little things introduced in the early seasons that come to fruition later. The Unsullied for example were in awe of them having Rast as a nasty raper in Season 1, having him pick on Sam later and then follow through with him killing Jeor Mormont in Season 3. Or to use a show-only example you have Tyrion sleeping with Ros, Ros telling Theon that Tyrion tipped well and then Cersei picking up Ros due to figuring out that Tyrion had paid her well later on and then following THAT up with more Cersei sending spies to snoop on potential Tyrion-paid whores. You just don't get other shows that plan things out and have story arcs that extend from season to season to season like this which makes GoT pretty unique. You just don't have other shows dropping Checko'vs Guns like Tyrion's necklace he gave to Shae and then picking up on them in future seasons.

The only other example I can think of is Babylon 5 which ran into problems due to the showrunner getting yanked around about how many seasons he had which I don't think will happen with GoT as they'll get the time they need to plan things out well and the quality of Season 4 is the best yet (better pacing and not trying to shove everyone in each episode FINALLY) which means that the show looks to only get better which will bump the show up in the rankings as it continues.

[yushkevitch]

I think most of us would agree that a big part of a show's strength is it's characters. After all, it's people and what they go through that brings us back for more. If they aren't compelling or deep enough, if they don't illicit some emotion from us and/or they don't captivate us then we find it hard to care about what they are going through.

Breaking Bad had Walter White. Not a very likable guy but the idea of a man with an extraordinarily mundane life thrown into a completely alien world (the drug trade) is compelling.

The Wire had Bubs. A very likable crack addict just trying to get by with the deck stacked against him. We suffer with him and feel his anguish, ultimately enjoying his redemption and success in starting a new, clean life.

Game Of Thrones has Tyrion. An incredibly powerful underdog character who rises above the stigma of being a dwarf, unwanted by his father and loathed by his sister. So we smirk and cheer when he uses his wit and cunning to rise above those around him and likewise we feel his anguish as he's humiliated and hurt by those same people.

And make no mistake, GRRM's series is so popular in BIG part to the characters he has created. Dany, Tyrion, Oberyn, Jamie, Bronn, Stannis, Barristan.... the list goes on and on. And with it's shocking plot twists, incredibly immersive world and only a minimal amount of sorcery, dragons and wizards it has broad appeal, a perfect recipe for a fantastic TV series. But as I said above, let the series run it's course before proclaiming it the best.

[MarieAntoinette]

"Best show ever" is quite subjective. I think to be crowned as best a show has to be finished so that it can be reviewed as a whole. I hope that the upcoming seasons are great, but they could still be a miss due to the show overtaking the books. To me GOT is one of the top shows that are currently on air. My favourite is still Mad Men, but I think GOT is superior to the Walking Dead.

[Daske]

The sheer critical, widespread and commercial success of the show has to now also be taken into account. It's been very noticable this season how much more exposure it has, everyone knows about it. It's caught the zeitgeist in a big way. If you're not into Game of Thrones right now then your finger isn't on the pulse of current quality entertainment - more so than almost any of the other big dramas mentioned in this thread were at the time. And the appeal seems to have spread right across the globe and across a much wide demographic than many of these other great shows.

[Nictarion]

The Wire had Bubs. A very likable crack addict just trying to get by with the deck stacked against him. We suffer with him and feel his anguish, ultimately enjoying his redemption and success in starting a new, clean life.

Bubbles wasn't a crack addict. His story, like many other storylines on The Wire, revolved around Heroin.

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

The sheer critical, widespread and commercial success of the show has to now also be taken into account. It's been very noticable this season how much more exposure it has, everyone knows about it. It's caught the zeitgeist in a big way. If you're not into Game of Thrones right now then your finger isn't on the pulse of current quality entertainment - more so than almost any of the other big dramas mentioned in this thread were at the time. And the appeal seems to have spread right across the globe and across a much wide demographic than many of these other great shows.

Yep, this show has a bigger international appeal than others in that list which were primarily US focused, or English-speaking in a couple of cases. I suspect that is because of the fantasy basis rather than political of something like West Wing or social like Wire that were just too alien for general audiences elsewhere.

[Peter George Stewart]

I think part of the reason why GoT is big is because it is about "eternal verities", and there hasn't been much of that around in the intellectual world in recent decades. Yes, you can have a show like the wire that's about "issues", but there's stuff that weaves in and around all that kind of stuff, and that's the ordinary, day-to-day human drama of families, struggling to survive, etc., etc. Despite the fact - or rather, actually because of the fact - that it's set in a fantasy setting, it highlights and brings into high focus that kind of character drama, yet distances it at the same time.

It's a mirror, like most good writing is, but because of the fantasy context, it gives us a distanced and mythified reflection, so we can actually see ourselves in the characters, and character types, more easily and objectively, in a way. Also, as book readers know, the characters only develop more and more as the series goes on, their full character isn't revealed in a few pages, but has depth that you only discover by getting to know them for a while, just like with real people - and they develop and change, just like real people. This hasn't really been seen in television much, since television in general prefers easily-graspable tropes and relatively fixed characters. But GoT is against the grain of easy-to-consume commercial fluff with easy to understand signs and tropes, that's been so prevalent. It has a richness and depth that's rare, and definitely puts it up there with the best. Definitely top 5 or top 10 material.

[yushkevitch]

Bubbles wasn't a crack addict. His story, like many other storylines on The Wire, revolved around Heroin.

Yes, you got me, my mistake. Have no idea why I was thinking crack, I've only seen the entire series 3 times :)

In any case, I'd go so far as to say Bubbles is the most compelling, well-acted and well-written character in TV history.

[iknownothingjonsnow]

I'd never actually watched The Wire until this thread inspired me to do so. I'm approaching the end of Season 2, and so far I not only like GoT more but I don't think it's silly at all to suggest that GoT is better.

The shows are a lot more similar than I expected. They both have great writing/acting, a regularly evolving ensemble cast, and great production. More than that, bad guys often finish ahead of nice guys, and they're both shows that aren't actually about what they appear to be: GoT looks like a medieval fantasy show but it's really a personal drama (with lots of sex and violence). The Wire looks like a cop show but it's really about bureaucratic dysfunction (within and without the criminal world).

The Wire: Season 1 started out much slower than I expected, but around midway it became pretty damn compelling to the point that I marathon watched the last 4 episodes because I had to know what happened. Season 2 has started out slow again, but seems to have hit its stride and is heading toward another intense climax.

Game of Thrones: (see above: The Wire)

I'm not nearly as invested in The Wire as I was GoT at this point, I'm not on the edge of my seat to find out what happens next, and there really aren't any characters who I'd be upset to see go (though, similar to GoT, I pretty much assume that anyone halfway decent is on a timeline of expiration). I think The Wire is more consistent that GoT, but the peaks of GoT are higher and more frequent - which ultimately makes it much more compelling.

---

Short Version: I don't watch a ton of TV, but I've seen every episode of The Sopranos and GoT, and I've now seen almost 2 seasons of The Wire. The suggestion that GoT is objectively "lesser" than those other 2 shows is flat out ridiculous, IMO.

[jentario]

I think GOT is the show I've enjoyed the most. Granted, I did not see Deadwood or the Wire (though I've tried The Wire and given up after the first episode since it didn't interest me very much). I think that comparing GOT to a Michael Bay movie is unfair. The problem some of you posters have is that you just can't separate the show from the books when you watch, which means you obviously are more negative to it when there are changes. Sometimes, it seems like people on this forum are searching for all the issues and inconsistensies in the show rather than just sitting down and enjoying it for the amazing piece of work that it is. It's not just CGI and explosions, it's got an amazing set of characters (the fact that the book version is better is irrelevant here), and an amazing epic set of storylines. No show before it has managed to achieve production quality on this level, and the cast is absolutely amazing (even if they don't look like their characters are described in the books, the actors are just fantastic in this show) and the writing (while inferior to GRRM's- which should be expected since GRRM is a one of a kind author) is still great. There is no real negative point to this show for people who are capable of following multiple storylines. It's got everything: epic action and CGI, amazing actors, some of the best characters on television with great arcs and meaningful developments (they've managed to make Jamie look good, just like the books) and a truly epic, thought-provoking storyline that is probably one of if not the most complex storylines put on television before it. Instead of focusing on the show's problems, focus on what it does right and I swear you will enjoy it much much more. Is that not what you want, in the end, to enjoy things?

EDIT: Also, I don't think you can compare got to The Wire or Deadwood or any show that isn't based on source material that you've read before. The impact and surprise of events that you aren't expecting completely change the way you view a show. So, unless you've read the early scripts of the Wire before watching the show you've got no buisness comparing it to GOT. The only people that can objectively review this show and compare it to other shows are non-readers.

[Ingelheim]

The Wire, Breaking Bad, The Sopranos, and a few others are better than GoT, which is pretty good.

[Cold Hands warm heart]

I just began watching for the second time Battlestar Gallactica, the remake from 1998? Five seasons interesting plot. And like Game of Thrones, people to hate, and people to love and people that we learn to love. I was watching some of the third season last night and I have to say I had the thought that "this show" is overall better. Now I enjoy the hell out of G.O.T. but I may have to move it to number 3.

[Mr Fixit]

^

Battlestar Galactica is a masterpiece. All the way to the end, and to hell with the critics.

[Dragonstoned]

I loved that show even at the end of the last season when it stopped making sense. Heard there are episode commentaries by the creator as well, not sure if they are worth a listen.

[The Eunuch]

I have watched with pleasure a ton of series in my life and loved a handful of them, thinking that nothing could surpass them in quality or in my heart. And then, someone offered me the first season of Game of Thrones for my birthday, last october.

I watched it in two days, and ordered season 2 directly after that, obsessed. Then, I ordered season 3, and managed to wait 4 months before it went out (this february). After that, I couldn't wait another year for season 4, so I ordered the books (in english, which is not my native tongue) and read it in less than two months.

So I can say Game of thrones is the best tv show (until now), due to it's book material. Of course, people can prefer other series because they relate to a certain topic or that character, but nothing comes close to the quality and the level of complexity and detail of Game of Thrones (quality is not a question of affection). Dialogues, actors, plots, scale, sets, special effects...

Compared to that, other series or movies seems as simple as a child book now.

"Even the finest juggler cannot keep a hundred balls in the air forever", says Varys in book 1. I guess it's quite a good metaphor to express George Martin's work with A song of ice and fire : keeping thousands of balls in the air for 5 books, and doing it brilliantly.

[Mr Fixit]

Heard there are episode commentaries by the creator as well, not sure if they are worth a listen.

Ron Moore's podcasts are great; very informative.