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Hardhome theories


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#1 lyannaisalive

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 03:18 AM

I have a theory about A dragon in the North but it is different because I don't think its under Winterfell or in the Wall. I  believe there is a dragon in the North specifically in Hardhome (I haven't found another thread on this topic so I hope it is new). I had this theory  but it led me to the one I am about show. This is crackpot and all very circumstantial, but bare with me because it really has me curious. ( Full disclosure, my knowledge about dragons is very very very slim especially lifespans and eggs) 

 

Before we start i'll give the best piece of evidence of a dragon in the north 

 

"The smoke and ash clouded his eyes, and in the sky he saw a great winged snake whose roar was a river of flame. He bared his teeth, but then the snake was gone." (ACOK 956)

IMHO I believe this is a dragon above Winterfell.

 

Part one: Still alive

 

Now a dragon living in the north could be a couple of options. The dragon could be one of three possible options IMO.

 

There are 2 unknown fates of dragons (that I am aware of) and I have a theory about one or both of them (but mostly SheepStealer)

1. Sheepstealer (and Nettle and was not seen since entering the Bay of Crabs)

2. Cannibal (

 

A. Sheepstealer is alive (that's my question about how long they can live because it has been about 150 years or more since he has been seen if I am doing the timeline correctly. Perhaps through some form of hibernation) or one of his possible descendants through eggs are living in the ruins of Hardhome. (this is where my ignorance of Dragons could hurt me but IIRC it is said that dragons have both male and female parts so it may be possible for male dragons to have eggs)
  Now we also have reason to believe it would be a suitable place for a dragon (and maybe Nettles) to live in solitude. 

 

"Hardhome sits on a sheltered bay"

 

"The waters teem with fish, and there are colonies of seals and sea cows close at hand. A great cliff looms above the settlement, pocked with cave mouths."

 

Now I think if they went north this is the likely place they ended up because the Rangers never venture into Hardhome but stay on the outskirts. It also is a suitable place for Nettles. She can fish and kill the bigger animals for meat and she has the caves for protection.

 

B. A completely unkown dragon is in Hardhome and has been for a very long time (again this is where the lifespan and eggs come into play).

 

 

"Its people are said to have been carried off into slavery or slaughtered for meat, depending on the tale one chooses believe."

 

"The homes of the inhabitants of Hardhome were said to have burned with flames so high and hot that the watchers on the Wall far to the south thought that the sun was rising in from the north. Afterwards, ashes rained down on the haunted forest and the Shivering Sea alike for almost half a year."

"Traders reported only nightmarish devastation where Hardhome had stood, a landscape of charred trees and burned bones, waters choked with swollen corpses and blood-chilling shrieks echoing from the cave mouths that pock the great cliff that looms above the settlement."

 

To me this is  sign of Hardhome being attacked by a dragon because of the talking about its destruction by fire. This seems like a place for a dragon to make their home. plenty of food and caves and of course its isolation. Now the thing about this is that it occurred approx 300 years BEFORE Aegon conquered Westeros. (So again it has to do with lifespans and eggs). It seems like a good place to become a "lair" (for lack of a better word). 

 

C. (And the most unlikely IMO) Cannibal. I dont have any proof which is why its more unlikely. Cannibals fate is unknown and he did not perish during the civil war and survived. Now He could have easily gone north. One of the reasons I do like this idea is because of Skagos and cannibals. This could also be another reason to send Davos to Skagos as a way to introduce the dragon. I know its really reaching but it could be that Cannibal is living on Skagos. 

 

Now I think if there is a dragon in Hardhome it is about to make its appearance. You currently have NW and wildings there, Tormund is on his way (IIRC) or Jon himself might head there after his recovery because he could have some kind of vision about hardhome. 

 

Part two

 

Now i'll discuss why I think there is a dragon in the north and it could be because of a couple reasons. I believe Jon is a head of the dragon and will in fact ride a dragon. So to why I think there is a dragon in the north (it leads to many possible directions for GRRM to go in).

 

1. To fight the Wights. Fire is the best weapon against WW and what better source of fire than a dragon. Now if Jon does fight the WW  A dragon will come in handy and could be interpreted as "lightbringer" if Jon is AA. 

 

2. Another Dance of the dragons. GRRM has made it pretty clear that there will be another DOTD and most assume it will be between Dany and Aegon. By having a dragon in the north it could potentially set up a fight between Dany and Jon without Jon having to wait for Dany to arrive to actually obtain a dragon. 

 

3. We have seen evidence of dragons pretty much everywhere. there were dragons in the southron kingdoms, there were dragons all over Essos (obviously). We only have one story about a dragon in the north and that is "The Ice Dragon". I think the North has had dragons but they have been in hiding/hibernation until now and are going to make a big impact. 

 

4. A song of Ice and Fire. If Jon rides a dragon he will have two "companions". Ghost (Ice) and a dragon (Fire) and both being rare creatures. 

 

 

I know this is all very crackpot and might be unlikely but I like the idea of a dragon in the North. So give me your thoughts or ideas on this. 


Edited by lyannaisalive, 02 August 2014 - 04:59 AM.


#2 A Bastard Snow

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 03:26 AM

I have always wondered what happened at Hardhome.I mean even with a massive army of several hundred thousand no one on the Wall could see Mance's army that far away.So the fire would need to have been massive to cause ash to rain down for half a year


Edited by A Bastard Snow, 02 August 2014 - 03:28 AM.


#3 Bright Blue Eyes

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 03:54 AM

I have always wondered what happened at Hardhome.I mean even with a massive army of several hundred thousand no one on the Wall could see Mance's army that far away.So the fire would need to have been massive to cause ash to rain down for half a year

Volcano. That's pretty much the only possible explanation.



#4 fuem

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 03:54 AM

Um tbh is this quite good. 



#5 lyannaisalive

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 03:57 AM

Volcano. That's pretty much the only possible explanation.

I think a dragon or possibly multiple dragons could be just as devastating



#6 Bright Blue Eyes

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:01 AM

I think a dragon or possibly multiple dragons could be just as devastating

No. Not even a thousand dragons. The fires were visible for months, nothing but volcanoes burns as long (or an entire coal mine or some such) and the scale was way, way beyond what even a hundred Balerions could achieve, breathing fire non-stop, which they can't.



#7 lyannaisalive

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:02 AM

No. Not even a thousand dragons. The fires were visible for months, nothing but volcanoes burns as long (or an entire coal mine or some such) and the scale was way, way beyond what even a hundred Balerions could achieve, breathing fire non-stop, which they can't.

Where does it say the fire was visible for months? It just mentions ashes 



#8 KINGpanther

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 05:40 AM

Volcanos seem like a nice place for dragons to make their home.

#9 lyannaisalive

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 05:45 AM

Volcanos seem like a nice place for dragons to make their home.

:cheers: Winterfell has hotsprings underneath it so perhaps the same is with Hardhome or it is in fact a volcano 


Edited by lyannaisalive, 02 August 2014 - 05:50 AM.


#10 A bowl of brown

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 06:48 AM

Volcanos seem like a nice place for dragons to make their home.


Well during the doom the volcanic eruptions wiped out most of the dragons. So maybe not that nice.

#11 lyannaisalive

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 09:20 AM

Well during the doom the volcanic eruptions wiped out most of the dragons. So maybe not that nice.

There is a difference between possibly living near a Volcano and having multiple ones suddenly explode besides I don't think Hardhome is a volcano



#12 KINGpanther

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 09:54 AM

Well during the doom the volcanic eruptions wiped out most of the dragons. So maybe not that nice.


Volcanos can be active but not erupt. I'm imagining a nice warm area where a dragon may roost close to an area with plenty of food (seals and sea cows).

Now with the White Walkers seemingly advancing on Hardhome it may be enough to wake a slumbering Dragon.

Also, Danys dragons have never even seen snow let alone fly in it which they will be expected to do to fight the Walkers. We know Balerion, the largest dragon in Westeros history, struggled in the rain. Drogon is the largest of Danys dragons yet he is not yet half the size Balerion was. So my concern is this, if rain hindered Balerion what will blizzards do to Drogon?

So maybe there is a dragon in the North somewhere accustommed to the cold but able to bring fire to the Others.

#13 Ser Lepus

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 10:26 AM

There are like a bajizillion old threads discussing that. You should make a search and read the theories exposed there.



#14 Ser Creighton

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 11:22 AM

The homes of the inhabitants of Hardhome were said to have burned with flames so high and hot that the watchers on the Wall far to the south thought that the sun was rising in from the north. Afterwards, ashes rained down on the haunted forest and the Shivering Sea alike for almost half a year.

#15 lyannaisalive

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 06:33 PM

There are like a bajizillion old threads discussing that. You should make a search and read the theories exposed there.

any links? I couldnt find anything



#16 Ser Creighton

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 06:44 PM

any links? I couldnt find anything


http://asoiaf.wester...ilers-hardhome/

#17 Ser Lepus

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 10:30 PM

any links? I couldnt find anything

http://asoiaf.wester...ilers-hardhome/

http://asoiaf.wester...ed-to-hardhome/

http://asoiaf.wester...holmedoom-link/

 

Also,  check the Heresy threads. Hardhome comes about a lot around there.


Edited by Ser Lepus, 02 August 2014 - 10:35 PM.


#18 Universal Sword Donor

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 11:01 PM

While I think the possibility of a dragon in the north is kind of cool, I don't really think that Hardhome can be anything but a volcanic eruption.



#19 Snarky

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 11:42 AM

Reading about north of the wall I was reminded about the 'town' of Hardhome.  It was said to be the only thing close to ever being a town north of the wall, before a night 600 years ago when the town was obliterated.  It is on the eastern coast on Storrold's Point (just east of the Haunted Forest), and has never been resettled (until ADWD).

 

History says that one night the town was englufed by fire and burned so bright that people on the wall thought the sun was rising from the north.  When later investigated it was reported that only a charred, smoking ruin of the town remained with burned corpses and screams coming from the caves nearby. 

 

So my question is do you think that it was a dragon attack that destroyed Hardhome, and if it was, what dragons did this?  As far as I know the Valyrians brought dragons with them to Westeros, so this would imply there were dragons actually native to westeros long before the Valyrians brought them over (about 300 years before Aegon).  Is it possible that there are dragons still living the network of caves ('Screaming Caves'), and if so could these be the ice dragons some people theorize are going to be revealed in the series?



#20 Ser Cory Trevor

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 11:45 AM

It could've been dragons or maybe if there really is a big conspiracy regarding the Doom of Valyria it could've been a test to see if it would work before they tried it on Valyria.