Social Justice Warriors, unite!

[Littlefingers In The Air]

To be SJW is to face the truth, and choose. Give off light or darkness, warrior. Be a candle or the night, warrior. But choose!

[MinDonner]

We have badges now

[Crom Dubh]

Nah I really doubt that's the case.

Not sure if I understand you, but I'm a male and I would never play a game where I could only be a female, or if the character class I wanted to play was only female. And I empathize with females because so very often, great games (the Witcher 2, for example) have only male characters available, or certain classes are male only for somewhat flimsy reasons (Chosen in Warhammer Online are male-only, for example). Does the reverse happen? Certainly, and that bums me out. But, by and large, it's women who are forced by mechanics to play as men. And, if you consider your avatar an extension of yourself, that sucks. It can, and does, make certain games nearly unplayable.

[Maithanet]

Not sure if I understand you, but I'm a male and I would never play a game where I could only be a female, or if the character class I wanted to play was only female. And I empathize with females because so very often, great games (the Witcher 2, for example) have only male characters available, or certain classes are male only for somewhat flimsy reasons (Chosen in Warhammer Online are male-only, for example). Does the reverse happen? Certainly, and that bums me out. But, by and large, it's women who are forced by mechanics to play as men. And, if you consider your avatar an extension of yourself, that sucks. It can, and does, make certain games nearly unplayable.

Really? Like in Diablo 2 you would never be a Sorceress or an Assassin because the avatar is a woman? That seems really strange to me. What difference does it make if the character is fun to play?

[Crom Dubh]

Really? Like in Diablo 2 you would never be a Sorceress or an Assassin because the avatar is a woman? That seems really strange to me. What difference does it make if the character is fun to play?

I am not a fan of ARPGs for the reason that you cannot customize your character's appearance, including their gender. I want my character to represent myself in real life, or a version of myself consistent with that world at least, and since I'm a heterosexual male, my characters tend to be heterosexual males.

[Kalbear]

We have badges now

I'm going to go there this weekend and buy, like, a ton of these

[emberling]

Really? Like in Diablo 2 you would never be a Sorceress or an Assassin because the avatar is a woman? That seems really strange to me. What difference does it make if the character is fun to play?

Well, deep identification with a male character is nearly impossible for me - probably actually impossible anymore in a game context, some books still manage - and the joy of deep identification is one of the biggest reasons I play games. So there's that. Diablo not really the place to go for deep identification - it's a much more technical experience - but the initial exploration phase of the game still benefits from greater immersion, from feeling no difference between the character and the self.

"Is it fun to play" is not the alpha and omega of a game's worth, any more than "is there a lot of action" is for a movie or book. Most of my best loved games aren't really fun at all. Classic adventure games don't do a lot of fun. Perfectly valid to play games for fun alone, but don't expect that everyone else who plays games feels the same.

[sologdin]

weird. I always made up female toons in every game, because aesthetics. avatar not intrinsic to my person. but am understanding if it is different for others.

didn't do enough MMMMRPG to see if I was mistreated because 'girl.' torment is the exception, not customizable. I suppose sex was tangential to narrative there; only reason for male protagonist is heteronormativity.

[emberling]

iirc D2 was actually the first game where I discovered how much vastly more amazing it was for me to play as a ladycharacter. not sure if I ever really tried it before then. pretty much never played male when given the choice after.

If only I'd known about Torment back then maybe I would have been able to actually stand playing it.

[karaddin]

Hell I started playing ladies wherever possible with hero choice back in Warlords fucking 3. There is hardly a lot of characterisation going on there, but I remember really identifying with the lady ones while the dude knights did nothing for me. I even had invented storylines going on in my head for it.

I know some people don't have any issues putting themselves in the shoes of the other, I think there are multiple things going on with it. Women have to do this if they want to consume most media, as there just aren't as many women protagonists to follow. Men seem to split between those that can't do this at all, and throw a hissy fit because DA:I is advertising using trailers showing a female PC and those who in the rare case it comes up can handle it without any issues and can't imagine what the big deal is. I think this latter option is a privileged position and comes from most of the time you are represented.

When you range from rarely to almost never represented (which if I drill right down, I'm in the latter category as a trans lesbian but the former if I just stop at woman) it can be extremely powerful to finally get that representation - I had no idea how powerful until my identity had settled after asserting itself and I finally read a few books that had it. Specifically with regards to games, it seems pretty common for the identity to assert itself in gaming before you are consciously aware of what's going on and when this happens the idea of not playing the right gender can be really upsetting. It was for me, and has only gotten stronger. Like Em I don't think I can really play a dude anymore, certainly not with anything I'm supposed to identify with the character. Books remain the one I am most able to still identify with male characters and I think the difference is thus: In a book I am immersing myself in another character, losing myself in that character; in a game I am projecting myself onto a character, merging myself with that character.

[Stannisaurus2]

Not sure if I understand you, but I'm a male and I would never play a game where I could only be a female, or if the character class I wanted to play was only female. And I empathize with females because so very often, great games (the Witcher 2, for example) have only male characters available, or certain classes are male only for somewhat flimsy reasons (Chosen in Warhammer Online are male-only, for example). Does the reverse happen? Certainly, and that bums me out. But, by and large, it's women who are forced by mechanics to play as men. And, if you consider your avatar an extension of yourself, that sucks. It can, and does, make certain games nearly unplayable.

You would reject an otherwise great game simply for not having a male protagonist? You can do as you like ofcourse, no judgments, but I think you are the first man I have heard doing that. Personally I can understand it if we are talking about a heavily role-playing oriented game but other than that I can't say I ever had any problems with other types of games.

Don't get me wrong, I can certainly see how not being able to choose a male character to "represent" you may lower the enjoyment a man gets from a game but to call it nearly unplayable or simply not play an otherwise fine game, that's a first for me. Especially if we are talking about genres like FPS with games of minimal story or interaction, where the character is basically two hands holding the gun and often has almost no lines. But ofcourse everyone is free to play what they like.

[Galactus]

losing myself in that character; in a game I am projecting myself onto a character, merging myself with that character.

I think that's a fairly interesting distinction with regards to role-playing in general. I don't "project myself" onto characters consciously (though I'm pretty sure you can find aspects of myself in the characters I play) rather I come up with a "character concept" and then play as *that* character. The point, so to speak, is to be "not me". To inhabit *another* character and to think and react as they would.

As I see it (which isn't saying this is the only way to play) the point of role-playing is precisely to be something *different* than what you are. (I tend to be fairly even in terms of male/female characters I create, out of my 10 SWTOR characters they're exactly 50-50, my STO characters are 6-4 male-female (and that's only becuase there's no female Gorn characters) when I played D&D I ended up with something like 2-2 for long-running characters, COH I had too many to count, but I think they were a fairly equal number, etc.

[karaddin]

Perhaps it's just a quirk of the way I speak, but projecting myself onto a character for me doesn't mean that character is me - I have a certain character in mind and then I kind of blend it with my personality to arrive at the way I'm going to play the character. Take Mass Effect for example, I decide that Shepard is a "ends justify the means when the galaxy is at risk of ending" type and then blend someone like that with myself - they aren't an asshole like it's possible to play Shep, but they will cut corners in the name of the greater good and the council at the end of the first game? Committing the fleet to save them is an unacceptable risk, eye on the prize!

There still needs to be some common ground to combine the two though and for me gender is a big one. I also can't normally go full asshole mode for this reason, although for some reason in SWTOR I found the dark in myself lol.

[Galactus]

I tend to come up with a concept. (it can be pretty general, and then I get down to designing the character more specifically, including gender, looks, etc. depending on what is offered, or it can be fairly specific) can be something fairly complex, can be something fairly shallow. (like "I haven't tried that combination before.")

In Bioware I pretty much always run through the game at least twice, just to try the different romances, choices, etc.

But no, I don't really need a link between me and my character.

[Relic]

I almost always play female toons. In some games it's practical, especially if pvp is involved as females tend to be slimmer than their male counterparts. In non pvp situations I just prefer the look of my female characters. Since I don't rp at all I do not associate myself with my game characters, at all. The idea sort of freaks me out, to be honest.

[Littlefingers In The Air]

I got my start on the internet by role playing in those old element based chat rooms that AOL had. I've played, quite literally, hundreds of different characters by now. If you can name the universe, I have a character in it. Playing a female character was always the coolest challenge because I hate the "female badass" archetype but I learned how it's easy to end up portraying a woman like that because of the fear of not wanting to be sexist.

I don't hate the idea that a woman can be a badass, by the way. I just hate the idea that it's okay to only portray women as badasses.

[Larry of the Lawn]

I always pick Tipper Gore as my av.

[Maithanet]

I don't hate the idea that a woman can be a badass, by the way. I just hate the idea that it's okay to only portray women as badasses.

I guess it depends on what you mean by badass. In D2, my assassin spends about 90% of combat running away, but she still kicks ass.

[sologdin]

Tipper Gore as my av

here's the classic celebrity toon impersonation: somethingawful.com/news/chilling-adventures-everquest/

[Littlefingers In The Air]

I guess it depends on what you mean by badass. In D2, my assassin spends about 90% of combat running away, but she still kicks ass.

The traits we usually see in a badass: ass kicking, takes no shit, wise, patient etc.