Beric175 Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 I always have to laugh at the idea of the reviewers on the site making excuses for why the episode felt so lacklsuter at the time. It's ok if Martin's writing is subpar now and then. We had 2 whole books to get used to that idea already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Killer Snark Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Particularly with the frightful Princess in the Tower chapter in Book 4, plus the tedious Jaime chapter in the 5th book, and the equally uninteresting Sansa chapters, for the most part, after Lysa dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingelheim Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 How embarrassing is that one of the actors, who has probably just started to read the books, has to tell the writers, so-called-fans for years of GRRM's work, how to interpret correctly a character and he is the one who got it right. Yes, so true. Kit is really fond of Jon, and he gets far more hate than he should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 I cant rate 307 that low only because it has the best Jon/Ygritte scenes of the show and I loved every bit of dialogue in their story arc (except Orell's lines to Ygritte). That's actually one of the reasons I dislike it, actually. The way Jon talks to Ygritte about wanting to see her wearing a silk dress made me laugh out loud, literally. It was cringeworthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Yes, so true. Kit is really fond of Jon, and he gets far more hate than he should. He gets far more hate than he should because people don't understand the way his character is supposed to be. In comparison to characters like Tyrion or Dany, Jon is far less verbose, shows far less emotion outwardly and far less happens to him because he's stuck at the Wall. It's simply not going to make him as popular as Tyrion or Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Killer Snark Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 He does come across as far more intelligent in the novels, however, than he does in the series, and that's not exactly Kit's fault. I can fault the writers for the same regarding Theon, even though I like Alfie Allen. Jon in the novels is actually, insofar as he is able to be, a genius along similar lines to Dany and Tyrion. Kit has been doing his best, but he comes across in the series as an uncomplicated, sword swinging Gary Stu type more than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 That was the best Jon scene, the one GRRM wrote, it was just like the Jon of the books. That's probably the only time he's really been Jon of the books. And the interplay between Jon and Ygritte was beautiful. She was the Ygritte of the books for once, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 He does come across as far more intelligent in the novels, however, than he does in the series, and that's not exactly Kit's fault. I can fault the writers for the same regarding Theon, even though I like Alfie Allen. Jon in the novels is actually, insofar as he is able to be, a genius along similar lines to Dany and Tyrion. Kit has been doing his best, but he comes across in the series as an uncomplicated, sword swinging Gary Stu type more than anything else.I absolutely disagree. He isn't a genius in the novels at all, nor does he come off as one. He's intelligent, quick-witted and quick-tempered and a bit arrogant at the start. He's also quiet. The show pretty much follows that. But he's not a scholar of any sort. He has an excellent military mind, and he's very adept at negotiation, but that doesn't make him a genius. The show gives him more of an opportunity to be a bad ass, that's undeniable. But he certainly hasn't been made into a Gary Stu. All of the stupid mistakes he made in the books he made in the show. If anything, the show did Jon a favor by making Mance less incompetent than the books made him look. But I think you are too kind to Jon's book character and too harsh to his screen character. They truly aren't that different at all. The true test for Jon's character comes in book 5, when he's LC. That will ring true for his screen character, too...especially since things will be different. But up until now, there's really not much difference between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 It's not "embarrassing" at all. I would have found it unbelievable that Jon Snow would wax poetic about Ygritte, even to Sam, when the Wildlings were bearing down on him. He didn't do it in the books, either, so I find it hilarious that people think he should have done it in the show.The showrunners know what they are doing. You don't have to like it, but they aren't idiots. It's always constant hyperbole from show defenders. Jon doesn't need to "wax poetic" to Sam about Ygritte to show that he's thinking about her! Have you ever watched any other TV shows that rely on subtext and symbolism to show that characters are thinking about each other? It's highly effective and adds more depth to the characters. Exposition is not necessary. I mean, that's kind of why words like "embarrassing" get used. They're not adding this depth to the show(*), and even one of the actors is commenting on it(**). (*) Well, the sad thing is that they used to... But it's been in decline since season 2. When was the last time we had any indication that Dany was thinking about Drogo, for example? Or - more importantly, perhaps - Rhaego? I understand that the show has to progress the plot and can't dwell on everything that's already happened... But it feels so cheap that things seem to happen to these characters without affecting them as much as they should. Jon at least looked like he was in mourning in the season 4 finale... But how long will that last, now that the deaths of his friends and Ygritte are no longer part of the plot? Good characterisation is when you can watch a character in the fourth, fifth, sixth season of a show and see everything that happened before that reflected in their actions. I'd argue that the only character who comes close to fitting that description by the GoT season 4 finale is Arya - so it's no surprise that she was the breakout star of season 4. (**) Let's also not forget that Natalie Dormer openly criticised D&D for writing a scene where Margaery sexually assaults Tommen... But of course, whether they're idiots are not doesn't really matter. What matters is the end product. Geniuses can still produce shit. But D&D are certainly no geniuses. GRRM actually didn't write either of those really good scenes that you cite. The impression I get from the description of how things were moved around is that "The Bear and the Maiden Fair" on the whole suffered to beef up "Second Sons", though moving the climax of the Jaime/Brienne arc into episode 7 was a good idea, even if it meant they had basically nothing to do in the remaining three episodes. Yeah, which is fair enough IMO - they needed episode 8 to be strong so that overnight viewings for the Red Wedding would be high. But they should have thought about that before they wrote the episodes. But I tend to have a soft spot for 3x07 anyway, purely because it features one of the very few scenes where Dany's characterisation is spot-on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Good characterisation is when you can watch a character in the fourth, fifth, sixth season of a show and see everything that happened before that reflected in their actions. They think saving these things for THE BIG MOMENT is dramatic, but it's not, it rings hollow. And the actors are the ones who save the moments, because of what they bring to the script, not what the script brings to them. Also remembering Dany finally mentioned Drogo in that odd scene with Daario in season 3. In a way that wasn't such a bad idea, she thinks of the two in similar ways. But waiting nearly 2 seasons to remember him was not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roose is Azor Ahai Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Can you post the link to interview, where Dormer says that? Couldn't find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Killer Snark Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 I've now come to the conclusion that I do think Season 4 is the best, despite E06's shoddily written and directed fanfic. It's better than Season 3, which features too many unnecessary alterations, some good, some bad and some indifferent, but none as good as the source. Season 1 is tied with 3 on quality; it's more faithful, but less actually happens, on account of a quality difference between the books. Season 2 is just trumped by 4 despite 2 being more consistent as it actually contains less more or less flawless episodes. Here's how I remember originally rating each episode here, of 4, when they first came out: E01 - 9 , E02 - 8, E03 - 9, E04 - 9, E05 - 10, E06 - 7, E07 - 10, E08 - 10, E09 - 9, E10 - 10 At least, I'm pretty sure I voted thus. Here's how I rate them on rewatching: E01 - 9, E02 - 9, E03 - 9, E04 - 9, E05 - 10, E06 - 5, E07 - 10, E08 - 10, E09 - 10, E10 - 10 I was overly harsh on episode 2 at first but on second viewing it only skips getting a 10 because it's obviously imperfect, in the sense it contains some frustrating padding, which could have been chopped back to fit in more buildup to the PW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Can you post the link to interview, where Dormer says that? Couldn't find it. http://www.inquisitr.com/1628378/the-game-of-thrones-scene-that-natalie-dormer-refused-to-do/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Killer Snark Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 She was right. Not that it's possible to imagine that any pubescent boy would reject the advances of the lovely Margaery, but the scene would have been an absolutely crass divergence from the books. Margaery is more worldly in the series than she is in the novels, but she's not that worldly she's going to go around seducing 13 year old boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeppelincheetah Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 IMO: 3 > 1 > 4 > 2 I am re-watching the show for the first time. Season one surprised me. I forgot just how good it was. Season two clearly stood out as the weakest. Season 4 I haven't re-watched yet but I remember not liking it as much as season 3. Season 3 is on fucking point. The best of ASOS (my favorite book), sticking very closely to the book at the most important parts. I just finished watching Dany take over the unsullied and even after reading it twice and watching it once it sent chills down my spine due to awesomeness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Season 2 is the worst by a mile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dronuspk Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Rewatched. 4 > 1 > 3 > 2 for me.The only clear choice is 2 being the weakest, even though I love Stannis/Blackwater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 1 - 12 - 23 - 34 - 45 - 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barristan Whitebeard Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 1 - 1 2 - 2 3 - 3 4 - 4 5 - 5 Great man! Please send me your copy of the season 5 episodes, I want to see them now too. Oh... Wait. Did you see them in the flames like a Red Priest, right? R'hllor works miracles... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWhiteRabbit Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 1. 4 - Absolutely awesome. From start to finish, the most entertaining season.2. 1 - Started off a bit slow, but once it got going, it was unstoppable.3. 3 - Had some pacing problems, but still had some great moments.4. 2 - Probably the most uneven season, but Blackwater made up for it.Summed up my thoughts exactly. If the pacing for season 5 is on par with the last season it has the potential to be ranked in the top 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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