Rickard Stark... a real badass?

[The Santa of House Claus]

When Rickard went to King's Landing to rescue his son/answer the summons of his king, he demanded trail by combat. Now he would of had to of known that he was going to face a member of the King's Guard as he was fighting against the Royal Blood. As Rickard seemed to be smart enough to arrange very good marriages with southern Lords Paramount, that leads me to believe that he is not a rash or stupid man. So, given there really is no info on Rickard, just how much of a bad ass must he of been?

I would assume it is likely he was not a knight and did not compete in many tournies, as that is not the way in the North so he would not be "ranked" really, but I think he must have been pretty bad ass, we known Brandon was very good, Ned is underrated (in my opinion, and that is not the point of this thread), and there was a Stark that the Dragon Knight said was the finest swordsman he had known (I am blanking on his name and the direct quote from the WOIAF). So, thoughts...

[James Steller]

Well, either Rickard was planning to fight the duel himself or (my guess) was going to ask Jon Arryn to send someone like Robert Baratheon over to fight the battle for him.

I'm guessing Robert because 1, Robert was Ned's best friend, 2, he was the foremost injured party in the whole issue and would have a reason to fight against the royal family and/or their champions, and 3, he was considered a very powerful fighter even then. So it wouldn't surprise me if Rickard would have asked him to come pay King's Landing a visit to save Brandon Stark in a trial by combat.

Though then again, he did seem prepared to fight the battle himself, so I guess we can assume Rickard was a badass ready to take on the very best fighters in Westeros for the sake of his heir. As to whether he could have beaten someone like Arthur Dayne.... well if Ned and Howland could do it, I imagine Rickard would have a chance.

[Siddard Stark]

he was going to fight himself and was betting to go against Ser Gerold Hightower!!!!

[The Santa of House Claus]

Well, either Rickard was planning to fight the duel himself or (my guess) was going to ask Jon Arryn to send someone like Robert Baratheon over to fight the battle for him.

He got all decked out in his armor, so he was definitely planning on fighting himself.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

Is there a Stark who isn't badass or on the path to becoming so? I haven't heard of one yet.

Its impossible to know Rickard's chances against any of the Kingsguard as the North don't go in for that sort of thing.

[The Wolf Lord's Daughter]

Yep, he was ready to fight one of the KG himself, considering he had his armor on. He must have been really good and known it too. Or the arrest of his son and heir made him mad enough to think he could handle a KG but I doubt it. Besides, Brandon was really good and Bran had the makings of a good swordsman. I wouldn't be surprised if Rickard was good. But yeah, he had guts! Most would think twice before fight one of the best knights in Westeros and he would have rather older than the knights present.

[The Santa of House Claus]

The biggest question in relation to how badass Rickard was, is which King's Guard members were there? Jaime was of course, but was Dayne?

[Lord Lannister]

Too bad for him fire was the Targaryen champion.

[TallTyrion]

Well, either Rickard was planning to fight the duel himself or (my guess) was going to ask Jon Arryn to send someone like Robert Baratheon over to fight the battle for him.

I'm guessing Robert because 1, Robert was Ned's best friend, 2, he was the foremost injured party in the whole issue and would have a reason to fight against the royal family and/or their champions, and 3, he was considered a very powerful fighter even then. So it wouldn't surprise me if Rickard would have asked him to come pay King's Landing a visit to save Brandon Stark in a trial by combat.

Though then again, he did seem prepared to fight the battle himself, so I guess we can assume Rickard was a badass ready to take on the very best fighters in Westeros for the sake of his heir. As to whether he could have beaten someone like Arthur Dayne.... well if Ned and Howland could do it, I imagine Rickard would have a chance.

Able bodied men have to stand for themselves. Tyrion was able to name a champion because he's a dwarf with no skill at arms.

[Barrick Eddon]

The biggest question in relation to how badass Rickard was, is which King's Guard members were there? Jaime was of course, but was Dayne?

I think Dayne and Whent were with Rhaegar .

[TallTyrion]

The biggest question in relation to how badass Rickard was, is which King's Guard members were there? Jaime was of course, but was Dayne?

We know Hightower was there because he tells Jaime it's not his job to judge. That could mean that Whent and Dayne were there as well unless they regrouped with Rhaegar separately.

[Mladen]

The biggest question in relation to how badass Rickard was, is which King's Guard members were there? Jaime was of course, but was Dayne?

Dayne and Whent weren't there, which means that the KG options were the rest of the brotherhood - Darry, Hightower, Barristan, Jaime and Prince Lewyn.

If we are discussing solely about this as the measurement of badassery, than yeah, Rickard was indeed a badass. But, I think there is more to the man which can qualify him as a badass. I have always seen Rickard as some Stark counterpart for Tywin. Smart, intelligent, capable, politically savvy. I might be wrong about this, but I believe that if he was in Ned's shoes in KL, he wouldn't have gotten himself killed.

[Table8]

From what little we know of him from the books, I get the sense he was more of a dolt than a badass.

[Mal Malenkirk]

We never read of the protocol for these things. Seems weird that lords (paramount, no less) couldn't name a champion much like the king would. It would feel reasonable though that if the King is restricted to naming a King's guard, the lords are similarly restricted in some fashion, such as only being able to name a kin (or at least a sworn vassal) to stand in his stead and not just the badassest fighter amongst all their acquaintances.

I'm sure Rickard is an able fighter, but it's not that reasonable to expect any able bodied lord to fight the best King's guard available. Rickard was what, in his late 40s, early 50s? Not everyone is Barristan or Bernard Hopkins, most swordsmen have lost all edge at that point. Especially lords who, because of their other responsibilities, can't train 20+ hours a week to keep the shape.

So, pure speculation, but I expect Brandon Stark, said to have been an elite swordman, son to Rickard and himself involved in the whole mess, would have been the logical choice to fight in the trial by combat. I mean, had it proceeded along a sane path, of course.

Pure guess, anyway, but the notion that 50ish lords are expected to fight the best available king's guard in duel during a trial by combat seems absurd to me. Just because they have a penis and are able bodied doesn't make them any more fit for such a task than Lysa or Tyrion were when they chose champions to represent their cause. I don't care how good Rickard was in his 20s, he'd have been butchered by any of the King's guard present in embarassing fashion. ETA: And since Arys did not allow that to proceed, it might be construed as an argument that Rickard would have indeed been allowed a champion under normal procedure.

[Universal Sword Donor]

Able bodied men have to stand for themselves. Tyrion was able to name a champion because he's a dwarf with no skill at arms.

That's complete speculation. We don't know either way. We've seen, what, two "contemporary" trial by combats, both involving Tyrion. The other one we've seen was Dunk in a trial by seven, and it's not as if Daeron and Aerion weren't able bodied.

Lyonel Baratheon fought Dunk, not Aegon IV, when the whole shitstorm went down with Duncan (?). Maegor fought 7 Warrior's Sons in a trial by combat (along with 6 of his buddies) despite the Faith having a champion.

[GHOSTSTARK]

he was going to fight himself. i feel like he was probably one of the better fighters in the 7 kingdoms at the time. Brandon was 20 when he died so Rickard couldnt have been much older than 40. seems like all Stark men are excellent fighters compared the other noble families but dont always think things through (wolfs blood)

[Bronn Urgandy]

Didn't Jaime mention that all the other trials were farces? Maybe Rickard, much like Tyrion, figured he was done for under the normal route and unlike Tyrion who couldn't fight (Blackwater be damned) chose to fight and most probably die with a sword in hand as its cleaner than most traitor deaths are with the slight chance of he and his son walking out alive.

[Fat Mac]

he was going to fight himself. i feel like he was probably one of the better fighters in the 7 kingdoms at the time. Brandon was 20 when he died so Rickard couldnt have been much older than 40. seems like all Stark men are excellent fighters compared the other noble families but dont always think things through (wolfs blood)

I wouldn't say that. We've seen legendary warriors within the span of the series, as well as RR, and none of them seem to come from House Stark. Notable Stark warriors are Robb, Ned and Jon, and they stand up against men like Jaime Lannister, Loras Tyrell, Garlan Tyrell, Robert Baratheon and Oberyn Martell. Other houses seem to provide just as many notable fighters.

Didn't Jaime mention that all the other trials were farces? Maybe Rickard, much like Tyrion, figured he was done for under the normal route and unlike Tyrion who couldn't fight (Blackwater be damned) chose to fight and most probably die with a sword in hand as its cleaner than most traitor deaths are with the slight chance of he and his son walking out alive.

I feel that, no matter who the King is, you're not going to win a normal trial against the Crown. In which case what you say makes a lot of sense.

[Universal Sword Donor]

I wouldn't say that. We've seen legendary warriors within the span of the series, as well as RR, and none of them seem to come from House Stark. Notable Stark warriors are Robb, Ned and Jon, and they stand up against men like Jaime Lannister, Loras Tyrell, Garlan Tyrell, Robert Baratheon and Oberyn Martell. Other houses seem to provide just as many notable fighters.

Ned is noted as a competent swordsman, with Brandon being better. I'd say that Rickard was probably above average as well, hence the whole TBC. We never really see Robb fight, just command. As for Jon, most of the people he fought were shitty fighters. Mance, Iron Emmett and possibly others I'm missing aren't bad by any means, but I don't think there's a whole lot of meet on the bone to say he's notable.

[Fat Mac]

Ned is noted as a competent swordsman, with Brandon being better. I'd say that Rickard was probably above average as well, hence the whole TBC. We never really see Robb fight, just command. As for Jon, most of the people he fought were shitty fighters. Mance, Iron Emmett and possibly others I'm missing aren't bad by any means, but I don't think there's a whole lot of meet on the bone to say he's notable.

What I meant by my statement was that comparing the Starks we are exposed to compared to members of other Great Houses make the Starks look worse, not better. Brandon is probably the best Stark swordsman in recent memory, maybe Rickard. I realize my words may have been a bit misleading, when I said they "stand up against men like..." I more of meant "trying to compare them to men like."