Queen Margaery, a murderess?

[Lady Catherine]

Hello people, I'm a brazilian newbie =) Sorry for any mistakes on english grammar.

A question that always bugged me: Margaery Tyrell had a active participation on Joffrey's murder? What do you think?

[James Steller]

You mean did she know about the poison? I think it went down like it did in the show. She had hints of something being planned by Olenna, but she only found out the full extent of it after the deed was done.

Also, welcome to the forum.

[WolfgangII]

Welcome to the forum. I do not think she knew about the plot and I think that was the best for her and for her family. Actually, besides Olenna and Littlefinger, how many people now about the plot?

[Pashernate Reader]

:cheers: Welcome!

And no, I don't think she had a direct hand in it, but she may have known in advance. I wouldn't put it past her.

[Lady Catherine]

You mean did she know about the poison? I think it went down like it did in the show. She had hints of something being planned by Olenna, but she only found out the full extent of it after the deed was done.

I don't really watch the show... I was thinking more of her being a part of the conspiracy to kill the king. Like, somebody had to put the poison in the right place :cool4: But I don't know if the Tyrells would risk her new-adquired position like that. On the other hand, would be a smart move. Who would distrust the queen?

Also, welcome to the forum.

Thanks!

[King of Vaes Tolorro]

I don't really watch the show... I was thinking more of her being a part of the conspiracy to kill the king. Like, somebody had to put the poison in the right place :cool4: But I don't know if the Tyrells would risk her new-adquired position like that. On the other hand, would be a smart move. Who would distrust the queen?

The other queen.

[Lady Catherine]

Welcome to the forum. I do not think she knew about the plot and I think that was the best for her and for her family. Actually, besides Olenna and Littlefinger, how many people now about the plot?

Thanks! That's a good question. I like to think that Mace knew, but that's wild speculation hahahah The real point for me is: Margeary had to know about the poison, or otherwise she would had also died. But she had a active ou passive part on the plot?

[Lady Catherine]

The other queen.

:bowdown: Excellent point.

[WSmith84]

Bem-vindo aos fóruns!

I'm not quite sure if Margaery knew or not. It would seem quite risky of Olenna to not tell her, considering that Margaery and Joffrey were drinking from the same cup. It does seem more likely, in my opinion, that Margaery knew.

[James Arryn]

Bem-vindo aos fóruns!

I'm not quite sure if Margaery knew or not. It would seem quite risky of Olenna to not tell her, considering that Margaery and Joffrey were drinking from the same cup. It does seem more likely, in my opinion, that Margaery knew.

.

Agreed.

Offsetting gains are Margery acting more legitimately shocked vs. not risking her life. I think the Tyrell's easily gamble on her acting talents rather than put her life at risk, especially as her safety is the entire point of the exercise.

[Lord Lannister]

Welcome to the boards.

I don't think Margaery was an active participant. At worst she knew about it. More than likely she didn't find out until after the fact and let's face it, the action benefited her and confessing would harm her and her family, so she'd have every reason to keep quiet about it.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Welcome to the forums.

Bem-vindo aos fóruns!

I'm not quite sure if Margaery knew or not. It would seem quite risky of Olenna to not tell her, considering that Margaery and Joffrey were drinking from the same cup. It does seem more likely, in my opinion, that Margaery knew.

:agree:

Furthermore, Margaery wasn't phased by the horror stories Sansa told of Joffrey. She had to knew about the plot (or at least the potential) at this very time or she'd behave very differently.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

Margaery had to know, since, as Lord Tyrell rightfully pointed out, she drank from the same cup as Joffrey. I believe Ser Garlan or Lady Leonette did the actual deed, when the royal couple was busy slicing the pie. (The Queen of Thorns is very short, while the chalice was positively enormous, so it would've been next to impossible for her to poison it unnoticed).

On a very loosely related note, somehow I can't help thinking of Margaery as Marjorie (damn!). I wonder if that was intentional, or was the author sadly unfamiliar with Fry & Laurie.

[Rattenhoofd]

Welcome to the forums friend!

I also think she didn't know about it, but her accounts of Joffrey's behaviour were part of the motivation for Olenna and by extent Littlefinger to plot the murder. Margaery will have noticed that Olenna had become increasingly worried about her fiancé's cruel shenigans, and the Queen of Thorns is widely known for being a go-getter type of gal. Telling Margaery would bring the risk of her acting all nervous around Joffrey, and who knows how Captain Loose Cannon would react to that? Why tell her when it's not necessary for succes?

I like to think that Mace knew, but that's wild speculation

Olenna sees Mace as a bumbling idiot, certainly not to be trusted with such vital information ;)

Another question would be if Margaery could have it in her to be a murderess, should the need for some more murder arise (which probably won't be necessary, Tommen's a bro). She is definitely intelligent, and by Olenna's influence has learned to manipulate people. My guess that she would eventually have the resolve to murder someone, if she judged it absolutely necessary for her survival or that of her family.

[Lady Catherine]

Olenna sees Mace as a bumbling idiot, certainly not to be trusted with such vital information ;)

But that's the question! Is Mace really so damn idiot or the Tyrells only wish that the Lannisters thought that, and for Highgarden own self-benefit? I'm not sure. Mace can also be playing the game of thrones... and, for all that matters, better than Cersei.

Btw, thanks for all the welcomes, people! You all look very nice =D

[Rattenhoofd]

But that's the question! Is Mace really so damn idiot or the Tyrells only wish that the Lannisters thought that, and for Highgarden own self-benefit? I'm not sure. Mace can also be playing the game of thrones... and, for all that matters, better than Cersei.

You raise a good point there. I searched around a bit and people seem to agree with you that he's definitely not as stupid as he seems. I will have to reconsider my opinion on him. Even if he's indeed not an idiot, Olenna came up with the idea, and she probably wasn't terribly interested in Mace's opinion on the matter. As every good schemer knows, it's best to only tell the people that need to know, and Mace didn't.

[James Arryn]

I don't discount Mace as an idiot entirely, but if he is it's IMO just further testament to the excellence of the Tyrell machine, because they appear to be both very functional and sincerely affectionate. I don't know if we even require Mace to be sandbagging in order to not consider him an idiot; Olenna has near universal disdain for all males, and that strongly shapes our view of everything Mace says afterwards. But more to the point, if we analyze his actions as opposed to his words, then he seems much more shrewd. He's not Renly; he doesn't ALWAYS make the intelligent choice, but he makes very few wrong ones, and is the head of his house during a significant 180/ascent.

Little details like his possibly taking too much credit for defeating Robert serve IMO to undermine people's recognition of the fact that it's still the greatest victory for the royalist's side...kind of a big deal. And that first his pattern IMO; no real mistakes, often successes somewhat obscured by tangential points being emphasized.

[WSmith84]

I don't discount Mace as an idiot entirely, but if he is it's IMO just further testament to the excellence of the Tyrell machine, because they appear to be both very functional and sincerely affectionate. I don't know if we even require Mace to be sandbagging in order to not consider him an idiot; Olenna has near universal disdain for all males, and that strongly shapes our view of everything Mace says afterwards. But more to the point, if we analyze his actions as opposed to his words, then he seems much more shrewd. He's not Renly; he doesn't ALWAYS make the intelligent choice, but he makes very few wrong ones, and is the head of his house during a significant 180/ascent.

Little details like his possibly taking too much credit for defeating Robert serve IMO to undermine people's recognition of the fact that it's still the greatest victory for the royalist's side...kind of a big deal. And that first his pattern IMO; no real mistakes, often successes somewhat obscured by tangential points being emphasized.

Yeah, I feel his buffoonishness is overestimated somewhat by people. I don't think he's a Varys or LF, or a Tywin or Tyrion, but he's definitely not an utter fool, in my opinion. He's ambitious, but somewhat cautious. And yeah, the Tyrells really seem to have an excellent family relationship whilst also being pretty cunning. I still wish we could have gotten a Tyrell PoV.

[Knight Of Winter]

Of course she knew. If she didn't, she could have just as easily be poisoned as Joffrey, seeing how both of them drank from the same cup. Say what you will about Olenna, but she would not risk her beloved granddaughter's life by not informing her of the plan.

[SeanF]

Yes, she knew. She befriended Sansa and pumped her for information. There's no way the Tyrells could have let her run the risk of drinking poisoned wine.