devilish Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 During Robert's rebellion 5 houses mostly tied by marriage managed to beat Aerys Targeryan. Robert was promised to Lyanna Stark, Eddard to Cat Tully and Rob Arryn to Lysa Tully. Friendship played a part however marriage was what gelled these houses together as Robert smashed through the loyalists ranks and claimed the iron throne. Years have passed since then and Arryn is dead. Robert suddenly remembers about his long lost friend and take great pains to go North. He gives Eddard the title of hand of the king and literally bullies Eddard in having his daughter marrying Joffrey At first glance it seems to be quite simple to understand. Eddard had been a loyal servant and Robert wanted to reward him for years of service. However I somehow wonder. Was there more to it? Robert may not be the brightest person on earth but he had certainly noticed that his son is a spoiled brat. He treats his 'subjects' badly and tend to have an unstable temper. Robert is also concerned about people still calling him the usurper and is incredibly worried about Dany's progress. Eddard tries to minimize the situation but Robert feels a war in imminent. Which suggest that maybe things weren't as friendly as we initially think. Lets say Robert dies and Joffrey decides to tear a page out of the mad king's book in terms of ruling, pissing the North off. How would things evolve? With Arryn gone, Eddard could in theory raise 3 kingdoms against him (The North, The Vale lead by his sister in law and the Riverlands). The Martells would probably pounce at the occasion of having their revenge. Joffrey and the Lannisters would be fending an army too big to master and with Eddard's son still unmarried, a marriage tie between Margaery Tyrell and Robb would be the final nail to the coffin. So what does Robert do? a- he gives Renly Storms end. Such prize attracts the Tyrells who ends up sealing a pact with Renly through marriage. b- by forcing Eddards hand to have Sansa marrying Joffrey, The Baratheons are once again in the Stark-Tully-Vale zone. Surely Eddard and Robb would never raise an army against their daughter/sister's children would they? Hence he secured his son's future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Do you REALLY believe this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 "My son is a monster, Ned. Let's marry your daughter to him". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Robert wasn't stupid, he was lazy and cowardly when he couldn't solve a problem using brute force. The amount of foresight you give him is quite ridiculous, I highly doubt matters of his son's future interested him greatly, or else he would have actually spent time with him to make sure he was fit to rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilish Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 "My son is a monster, Ned. Let's marry your daughter to him". He would never say that of course. Don't you think he wasn't concerned what would happen once he died? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Wylla Manderly Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Robert wasn't stupid, he was lazy and cowardly when he couldn't solve a problem using brute force. The amount of foresight you give him is quite ridiculous, I highly doubt matters of his son's future interested him greatly, or else he would have actually spent time with him to make sure he was fit to rule. :agree: Even if he did not want to personally teach his son how to rule (because Robert himself didn't do much ruling, really) he could have still arranged a situation where Joffrey learns from Jon Arryn. He could have at least attempted to be a father to him even he did not want to be kingly, and tried to teach him how a good man acts. Especially how he treats his wife. (Robert and Cersei's marriage is hardly a shining example for children to look up to.) There are many things Robert could have done differently if he was truly that invested in his son's future. I don't believe Robert was an evil man. But he was a very cowardly one who would rather drink all day, lamenting the old times and battles, and crying over his lost love (who probably didn't even like him) rather than trying to do some good at the present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Warning Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 He would never say that of course. Don't you think he wasn't concerned what would happen once he died?His concern about what would happen with Joffrey once he died went no further than naming Ned regent on his deathbed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 One more thing, if this was true and Robert thought that bringing Ned to court, a man who absolutley fucking hated Tywin Lannister, would help keep peace between House Stark and House Lannister, he is even more of a moron than I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Nope, Robert was stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor227 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 We do know that the thought of Joffrey ruling with Cersei behind the throne was a terrifying prospect to him. Still, I do think that's a bit too much foresight for Robert when you consider that he never put any effort into raising Joffrey to be a a real heir anyway. The marriage between Sansa and Joffrey seemed more an excuse to bind Ned closer to him rather than the Starks closer to Joffrey. Robert was in a bad spot without Jon Arryn, and there's only one other person in the Seven Kingdoms he could trust to clean up his messes. He didn't want Ned to tell him to screw off and stay home (that may not have seemed likely, but Ned and Robert were on bad terms after the Sack, and though they reconciled, Robert may have thought Ned would refuse to go to King's Landing, and he nearly did anyway weren't it for Lysa's message). The marriage alliance was part of the 'impossible to refuse' offer to get him down to King's Landing as his Hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aemond's Eye Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Robert wasn't stupid, he was lazy and cowardly when he couldn't solve a problem using brute force. The amount of foresight you give him is quite ridiculous, I highly doubt matters of his son's future interested him greatly, or else he would have actually spent time with him to make sure he was fit to rule. :agree: Even if he did not want to personally teach his son how to rule (because Robert himself didn't do much ruling, really) he could have still arranged a situation where Joffrey learns from Jon Arryn. He could have at least attempted to be a father to him even he did not want to be kingly, and tried to teach him how a good man acts. Especially how he treats his wife. (Robert and Cersei's marriage is hardly a shining example for children to look up to.) There are many things Robert could have done differently if he was truly that invested in his son's future. I don't believe Robert was an evil man. But he was a very cowardly one who would rather drink all day, lamenting the old times and battles, and crying over his lost love (who probably didn't even like him) rather than trying to do some good at the present.This.If Robert was emotionally invested in the future of 'his' children then he would have had Joffrey squire for someone like Jon Arryn, Ned Stark or Stannis Baratheon. Tywin, too, perhaps. But he doesn't pay any attention to them.Betrothing Sansa to Joffrey is Robert's way of finally being family to Ned, and an attempt to reconcile a damaged friendship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Robert wasn't stupid, he was lazy and cowardly when he couldn't solve a problem using brute force. The amount of foresight you give him is quite ridiculous, I highly doubt matters of his son's future interested him greatly, or else he would have actually spent time with him to make sure he was fit to rule.Yep. Robert wasn't stupid, and there isn't really any evidence that he was. But he wasn't particularly intelligent or insightful either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balerion the kitten Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Any character who can bankrupt half the world into debt through whoring and partying, doesn't deserve to be given the title of "smart". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooseHB Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 During Robert's rebellion 5 houses mostly tied by marriage managed to beat Aerys Targeryan. Robert was promised to Lyanna Stark, Eddard to Cat Tully and Rob Arryn to Lysa Tully. Friendship played a part however marriage was what gelled these houses together as Robert smashed through the loyalists ranks and claimed the iron throne. Years have passed since then and Arryn is dead. Robert suddenly remembers about his long lost friend and take great pains to go North. He gives Eddard the title of hand of the king and literally bullies Eddard in having his daughter marrying Joffrey At first glance it seems to be quite simple to understand. Eddard had been a loyal servant and Robert wanted to reward him for years of service. However I somehow wonder. Was there more to it? Robert may not be the brightest person on earth but he had certainly noticed that his son is a spoiled brat. He treats his 'subjects' badly and tend to have an unstable temper. Robert is also concerned about people still calling him the usurper and is incredibly worried about Dany's progress. Eddard tries to minimize the situation but Robert feels a war in imminent. Which suggest that maybe things weren't as friendly as we initially think. Lets say Robert dies and Joffrey decides to tear a page out of the mad king's book in terms of ruling, pissing the North off. How would things evolve? With Arryn gone, Eddard could in theory raise 3 kingdoms against him (The North, The Vale lead by his sister in law and the Riverlands). The Martells would probably pounce at the occasion of having their revenge. Joffrey and the Lannisters would be fending an army too big to master and with Eddard's son still unmarried, a marriage tie between Margaery Tyrell and Robb would be the final nail to the coffin. So what does Robert do? a- he gives Renly Storms end. Such prize attracts the Tyrells who ends up sealing a pact with Renly through marriage. b- by forcing Eddards hand to have Sansa marrying Joffrey, The Baratheons are once again in the Stark-Tully-Vale zone. Surely Eddard and Robb would never raise an army against their daughter/sister's children would they? Hence he secured his son's future. This would be the single most significant example of irony, in the history of examples. In order to keep Stark & Tully from declaring against Joffrey, he initiates a plan that leads to Stark & Tully declaring against Joffrey, with Ned and Robert himself dead in the process. The only reason to believe it is because it would involve Robert being stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Do you really believe Robert cared for Joffrey's education? Come on. Look, Robert was not an intellectual chap. His thing was smash things with his hammer and being a warrior, right? Robert never minded his sons being pages or squires, because Cersei probably believed that would put them in danger. Joffrey was 13 and he NEVER squired. Rhaegar was a squire. Aerys was a squire. Egg was a squire. All Kings were squires when they were young because that's what makes you a knight. So, he did not even cared that his sons were involved in something HE believed to be right and top priority, how can we expected he wanted them to be educated in things he NEVER cared about like ruling properly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beorn Snow Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Smarter thing to do is count on Starks being loyal and honorable and get Tyrells into the fold by betrothing Joffrey to Margaery. Marcella to either Sweet Robin or Robb. If Sweet Robin then Tommen to either Stark sister really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimim Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I don't think this is that far fetched. Robert might be a self-pitying drunk at the moment, but he used to be a general, not just a thug who bashed people's heads in with a hammer. The problem is that Robert lives in the past. His rebellion is still very real for him. So, unlike anyone else, he takes the Targ threat seriously: There are still those in the Seven Kingdoms who call me Usurper. Do you forget how many houses fought for Targaryen in the war? They bide their time for now, but give them half a chance, they will murder me in my bed, and my sons with me. If the beggar king crosses with a Dothraki horde at his back, the traitors will join him. He acts to protect against it: Arryn brought Robert the Vale and the Riverlands. Ned allows him to keep those two, and add the North to the mix. That keeps the old alliance against the Targs intact. Robert has married a Lannister, so he believes them safely in the fold. Renly is conveniently unmarried, yet with close ties to the Tyrells, who supported the Targs. Storm's End is a crucial keep, and giving it to the unmarried Renly makes him eligible enough to marry Margaery. Dorne was also a Targ ally, but it's been quiet under Doran, and assassinating Dany would keep them that way. The problem is that though Robert is smart to take Dany seriously as a threat, and smart to make these alliances, he is unaware of the disaster looming on the small council he's allowed to run wild. The Hand has to deal with LF, Varys, and Cersei's plots, and I don't believe there's a human being on the seven kingdoms who can do this and live. Ned tries, dies, thanks to Cersei and LF. Arryn tries it, and LF kills him. Tywin and Kevan try it, and Varys takes them out. The place is doomed, drunken king or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdw4950 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 robert was smart enough to know the lannisters were silently taking over. robert was stupid enough to believe that ned would rule the kingdoms and put an end to this. as far as joffrey goes, i dont think robert really gave a damn about him or knew how violent he would become. part (not saying all since joffrey definitely had some mental issues regardless) was joffrey wanting his fathers approval. it was common knowledge that outside of war, robert didnt give a shit about much. how else would joffrey try and appease his father other than trying to be cocky and intimidating? iirc, cersei also makes a comment about how joffrey idolized the hound. again, not the best role model for an already messed up boy thrown into power. i think youre looking too far into roberts knowledge, and caring, of joffrey. i might be wrong but i pretty much saw the whole situation as robert pawning his job off on ned and nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ser Septon Maester Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Robert got the musclesStannis got the brainsRenly got the looks and charm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibzit Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Robert got the muscles Stannis got the brains Renly got the looks and charm Robert was also handsome in his youth. Renly is also not stupid. Stannis is as tall as his brothers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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