Would Lyanna be with a cheater?

[Arya's Advocate]

This is my very first post as I'm new to the forum and I can't find this question though I'm sure it's somewhere, so please point me in the right direction here?

 

Given what I've read and heard about the Lady Lyanna Stark would she truly run off with Rhaegar? She specifically had a distaste for Robert because of his promiscuity and bastard child, so why would she turn around and run off with a married man with a family?

 

Was she lying to Ned about why she didn't want to marry Robert?

 

[LordStoneheart]

That depends. Was Aegon I 'cheating' on Visenya with Rhaenys, and vice versa? If they were married, I doubt her or Elia would see it as infidelity as we would.

[mediterraneo]

If I were Elia I would still see lots of infidelity.
 

But if she fell in love with Rhaegar, she fell in love for him, not for "a cheater".

 

Rhaegar was a lot of things, between others a crown prince, a charming one at that, a poet, a warrior, a person of great culture, a man with a dream that was a driving force, larger than life.

He also had a wife, but nobody is perfect.

 

Actually in a man not renown for composure, fidelity, and lack of joy his decision to leave it all and run away with her is certainly not a turn off.

Add the perfect moment of mutual understanding, phisical chemistry and respect of Harrenhal and...
There they go!

[sarah.jenice]

I'd direct you to the numerous R+L=J topics pinned at the top of the forum.

 

Like LordStoneheart brings up, many people believe Rhaegar and Lyanna were legally married (Targs practiced polygamy in the past), so that might have affected how Lyanna felt. There are numerous other factors that could have had an impact that we just don't know (Elia giving her blessing since she could no longer bear children, Lyanna might actually have been in love with Rhaegar/she wasn't in love with Robert).

 

ETA: Welcome to the forum!

[John Suburbs]

She also might have been swayed by the idea that their offspring would sing the Song of Ice and Fire and fulfill the prophecy of the Prince that was Promised.

[Lady Blackmont]

I tend to think Elia was okay with it, considering she and Rhaegar had to be celibate towards each other.

[ShadowCat Rivers]

That depends. Was Aegon I 'cheating' on Visenya with Rhaenys, and vice versa? If they were married, I doubt her or Elia would see it as infidelity as we would.

 

If Lyanna was anything like Arya, I doubt she'd have a favourable idea about polygamy.

 

I'm of the mind that she just fell in love, and as it happens it does not always complies with our ideal about what and how it "should" be.

Her view on infidelity was sincere, but based on the black and white mentality of a 14 year old; the irony of life forced her face the colours in between.

I suppose that both Lyanna and Rhaegar would have to deal with a feeling of shame that stained their love (just as their child expecienced with Ygritte).

 

Also, I believe that the feelings related to cheating/being cheated should not be viewed as such an on/off thing depending on the existence/validity of polygamy. It is well documented that, in cultures where polygamy is/was legal and socially accepted, the first wife did not feel less cheated at and/or humiliated and threatened because of that.

[Alysanne Donnelly]

Robert slept around and had a known bastard. Rhaegar wasn't known for such and he didn't sleep with her and then leave her. Lyanna was 14 or 15 when she was with Rhaegar as well, so we can't expect her to have wise judgement.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

I'm not convinced she ran away to be with Rhaegar, or because she was in love with him. Maybe she pulled an Alys Karstark, that is, ran under her liege lord's son's protection to get out of an unwanted match. And all that romance and shit just kinda happened, later, unplanned. That's my working theory for now.

[ShadowCat Rivers]

I'm not convinced she ran away to be with Rhaegar, or because she was in love with him. Maybe she pulled an Alys Karstark, that is, ran under her liege lord's son's protection to get out of an unwanted match. And all that romance and shit just kinda happened, later, unplanned. That's my working theory for now.

 

In that, I agree. On the rest, I believe she was kidnapped for political reasons (being at the wrong place at the wrong time, for examble).

[Winter Rose Crown]

I'm not convinced she ran away to be with Rhaegar, or because she was in love with him. Maybe she pulled an Alys Karstark, that is, ran under her liege lord's son's protection to get out of an unwanted match. And all that romance and shit just kinda happened, later, unplanned. That's my working theory for now.

that's what I always thought happened. They didn't fall in love and run off, but he didn't kidnap her, either.

[Arya's Advocate]

I'm not convinced she ran away to be with Rhaegar, or because she was in love with him. Maybe she pulled an Alys Karstark, that is, ran under her liege lord's son's protection to get out of an unwanted match. And all that romance and shit just kinda happened, later, unplanned. That's my working theory for now.

This seems plausible. It just makes me wonder if honor mattered as much to Lyanna as it did to Ned. No one believes he would ever actually cheat on Catlyn because of his honor. Lyanna seems to demonstrate the same type of belief system with her review of Robert and defense of Howland. I still have doubt that she would throw away her honor to be with a married man and mother a bastard.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

I think Rhaegar's plan was to marry both women but in essence live with Lyanna.

They both would have a place at court, and Elia's would be the more visible political marriage.

I think Elia was OK with the set up, due the fact that they were never in love and she could possibly die if she were to get pregnant again. Also, her son would one day be King.

 

The plan was probably for Aegon to marry his two sisters (had Jon been a Visenya), but a new plan would have had to thought up when Jon was born a Viserys.

Maybe Jon starts a cadet house of the Targaryens in the North? Maybe he gets Summerhall?

 

In the end, Elia's son (and by extension the Martells) gets the throne, Lyanna gets Rhaegars' love and Rhaegar gets his 3 Heads of the Dragon.

[Lord Wraith]

I'm not convinced she ran away to be with Rhaegar, or because she was in love with him. Maybe she pulled an Alys Karstark, that is, ran under her liege lord's son's protection to get out of an unwanted match. And all that romance and shit just kinda happened, later, unplanned. That's my working theory for now.

 

Certainly possible. There was at least some mutual attraction at the Tourney at Harrenhal.

[LordStoneheart]

This seems plausible. It just makes me wonder if honor mattered as much to Lyanna as it did to Ned. No one believes he would ever actually cheat on Catlyn because of his honor. Lyanna seems to demonstrate the same type of belief system with her review of Robert and defense of Howland. I still have doubt that she would throw away her honor to be with a married man and mother a bastard.

 

"Love is the death of duty."

 

Love is what made Ned give up his honor for his daughter's sake.

[Bobby b's bobby]

I'd run off with Rhaegar and I'm a straight guy

[sweetsunray]

I'd run off with Rhaegar and I'm a straight guy

:lol: :thumbsup:

 

For th OP: You've got plenty of women, including experienced onces, who are turned off by macho players who are known for sleeping around, without a care, drinking and fish stories, but who still are charmed by the idea that a serious, dutiful man suddenly wants to drop everything for them. Not saying that was the actual scenario, but it are two completely different things. The first man makes a woman feel she's no more than a number in his black book, the second that she's his everything. Of course the professional charmers know how to do the first while appearing to do the second.

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

I'm not convinced she ran away to be with Rhaegar, or because she was in love with him. Maybe she pulled an Alys Karstark, that is, ran under her liege lord's son's protection to get out of an unwanted match. And all that romance and shit just kinda happened, later, unplanned. That's my working theory for now.

 

 

that's what I always thought happened. They didn't fall in love and run off, but he didn't kidnap her, either.

 

 

 

Yes to both.

 

My working theory is Lyanna ran and/or escaped from a marriage she desperately didn't want, and her running away converged with Rhaegar trying to plot to get Aerys off the throne. She may have overheard something she shouldn't have, or perhaps one of the KG caught up to her. Or she went to the prince for help in getting out of her marriage... because the Crown could override her father's and Robert's wishes.

 

And things happened. Neither were thinking. And it all went to the seven hells.

 

Of course, I could be totally wrong.

[sweetsunray]

 

 

 

 

 

Yes to both.

 

My working theory is Lyanna ran and/or escaped from a marriage she desperately didn't want, and her running away converged with Rhaegar trying to plot to get Aerys off the throne. She may have overheard something she shouldn't have, or perhaps one of the KG caught up to her. Or she went to the prince for help in getting out of her marriage... because the Crown could override her father's and Robert's wishes.

 

And things happened. Neither were thinking. And it all went to the seven hells.

 

Of course, I could be totally wrong.

:agree:

 

I think she sought help with someone to overrule her father and Robert's marriage contract on her. Her father could never go back on his word, even if he wanted to (which I doubt), so she appealed to a higher power, like Alys did with Jon.

 

I don't think Rhaegar was necessarily there for her. He was most likely in the RL for prophecy business - either the Gods Eye or searched and found the GoHH (who after all is the woman suspected to have made the Summerhal prophecies). He would have been completely stumped about Elia not being able to survive a third pregnancy. He always lingered at Summerhal. And had his nose in books. Perhaps he found a reference where to find the GoHH. He gets some mind boggling poetic lines from the GoHH. Throw in the "Pact of Ice and Fire" reference as well.

 

Their paths cross; she makes her appeal. He finds himself compelled and unable to resists to "help" her, and before long you have the damsel in distress-saviour situation with two people who rarely take that role, and the rest is Westeros history.

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

:agree:

 

I think she sought help with someone to overrule her father and Robert's marriage contract on her. Her father could never go back on his word, even if he wanted to (which I doubt), so she appealed to a higher power, like Alys did with Jon.

 

I don't think Rhaegar was necessarily there for her. He was most likely in the RL for prophecy business - either the Gods Eye or searched and found the GoHH (who after all is the woman suspected to have made the Summerhal prophecies). He would have been completely stumped about Elia not being able to survive a third pregnancy. He always lingered at Summerhal. And had his nose in books. Perhaps he found a reference where to find the GoHH. He gets some mind boggling poetic lines from the GoHH. Throw in the "Pact of Ice and Fire" reference as well.

 

Their paths cross; she makes her appeal. He finds himself compelled and unable to resists to "help" her, and before long you have the damsel in distress-saviour situation with two people who rarely take that role, and the rest is Westeros history.

 

Yes, yes, and yes. This is exactly what I think happened!

 

Rhaegar had political and prophetic reasons to go to the Riverlands. Politically, it was the site where Varys/Aerys/someone else derailed the meeting that the Tourney at Harrenhal was probably a cover for. Prophetically, the God's Eye/GoHH would be a place to seek wisdom about why, if the 3 heads were his children, Elia's ability to have babies was no longer there.

 

I think that Rhaegar and Lyanna connected at the Tourney but I doubt anything came out of the whole crowning. I'm one of many who think he discovered she was KOLT and decided to cover for her by taking the shield to his father. The crown of blue roses? Still not sure. I go back and forth -- was that the only crown she could have, as a woman, and he wanted to honor her? Was it a signal for the Starks since he couldn't have the meeting he wanted? Whatever it was, not only did it go badly... it seemed... premeditated. Because ​why would anyone have blue roses on hand? It makes no sense.

 

Through that gesture, I think R+L became allies and friends. Perhaps there was a spark, but she's betrothed, he's married, and neither seemed very casual about throwing caution to the winds...

 

I think that Lyanna went seeking Rhaegar to get the heck out of her betrothal/marriage. And everything unraveled from there. Especially if Lya stumbled upon Rhaegar's meeting with the GoHH, Rhaegar would think it was destiny.

 

Also, as you've noted, the GoHH has been messing with the Targs for a very long time. She's the one who is associated with Jenny of Oldstones, the mysterious girl that Duncan, Prince of Dragonflies loved.