Issue with the "three heads of the dragon"

[Addam of Hull]

I've always favored Aemon for Jon's (potential) Targaryen name. It just appealed to me, given that if R + L = J, then Jon met one of the few remaining family members he has and never knew it. Aemon was such a cool character, I think it'd be awesome if Jon shared his name. I actually doubt that happened, but it's my favorite of the names, personally, that Rhaegar could've named Jon.

[Malestel]

I've always favored Aemon for Jon's (potential) Targaryen name. It just appealed to me, given that if R + L = J, then Jon met one of the few remaining family members he has and never knew it. Aemon was such a cool character, I think it'd be awesome if Jon shared his name. I actually doubt that happened, but it's my favorite of the names, personally, that Rhaegar could've named Jon.

It very well might be Aemon, since Rhaegar favored Aemon a lot. Don't forget that Howland Reed is still alive and he has to know the truth about Jon's heritage, and even his true name if Rhaegar or Lyanna named him. Getting to know his true lineage might also fulfill the "wake dragons out of stone" part of the Azor Ahai prophecy.

Oh and on another note Aegon has to be fake imo. Black hair is always superior DNA-wise. Even if we take into account that this is fantasy, we have Robert's bastards, Jon and Baelor Targ, who had a dornish mother (same as Aegon) and had black hair. I think Varys holds upbringing and education in a much higher regard than regal bloodline. He probably just bought a likely babe from Lys and gave it to Connington to make him prince.

[The guy from the Vale]

The Martells have Targaryen ancestors themselves, so there could still be a recessive silver-hair gene in their family. Remember that baby Aegon back in KL had typical silver hair, Similarly, Baelor Breakspear's brothers Aerys I and Maekar I had silver hair. So really, Aegon must have silver hair to be convincing; otherwise he'd contradict the appearance of baby Aegon.

[Queen Beyond the Wall]

Also if he was naming he's children after the original aegon and sisters why would he have named Jon "Jon", rather than a male equivalent to visenya, not that I doubt r+l=j but kind of interesting.

I doubt that Rhaegar had anything to do with Jon's name. He was not present at the Tower of Joy when (presumably) Lyanna died giving birth to Jon. We don't even know if Lyanna named him...Lyanna may have wanted to name him something else, or never got the chance to name him before dying! It makes the most sense to me that Ned called him Jon (after Jon Arryn) instead of using the name Lyanna chose if she chose one, to preseve his identity, at least until it was safe (if ever) to reveal it to him.

[sparkystiltskin]

Also if he was naming he's children after the original aegon and sisters why would he have named Jon "Jon", rather than a male equivalent to visenya, not that I doubt r+l=j but kind of interesting.

Well for one, R did not give Jon his name. He was dead at the time of the birth.

Jon was likely given that name by Ned to hide him all the better. Jon is an exceedingly common name, and does not call attention to itself.

Also people seem to be making the assumption that the three heads of the dragon is NOT based on the prophecy but on the Conquering. Thus far I know of nothing that says that it cannot be both.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Also people seem to be making the assumption that the three heads of the dragon is NOT based on the prophecy but on the Conquering. Thus far I know of nothing that says that it cannot be both.

Considering that Rhaegar is focused on the three-headed Targ sigil and he was naming his kids after the original conquerors, I think it's safe to surmise that the Conquest was of some note to him and was possibly a driving factor in his decision-making. It would help to have the full text of whatever prophecy he was going on.

[bent branch]

“The dragon must have three heads” is the stub of a prophecy, the punchline if you will. My very first post was asking if anyone knew where the rest of this prophecy could be found. The reason I had become interested in this was that GRRM had revealed slowly through the novels the reason that Rhaegar believed at one point that he was AA. I have since convinced myself through re-reading that the rest of the “the dragon has three heads” prophecy has not yet been revealed. In order to understand why Rhaegar believed what he believed we have to string together three prophecies.

The first and by far the oldest of these prophecies is the AA prophecy. This prophecy was extremely vague as to who this individual would be. While the signs of AA being reborn were given and hints were given as to what AA was anticipated to do, there was absolutely no clue about who AA would be. With this prophecy, AA could literally be anyone anywhere in the world. This prophecy alone would not have convinced Rhaegar he was AA.

The second prophecy, the PTWP prophecy (which is directly related to the AA prophecy by everyone in the story, I am NOT trying to make the claim here that they have to be the same person, merely trying to understand why Rhaegar believed himself to be AA) significantly narrows the field of candidates. This prophecy said that AA would be born of the Targaryen line in Westeros and this is the reason the Targaryens left Valyria and went to Westeros. However, this prophecy left a lot of people who could be AA. It could be a Targaryen, a Baratheon, a Martell, a Blackfire or even Brown Ben Plumm. Basically, it could be anyone who had a drop of Targaryen blood. So this second prophecy obviously didn’t convince Rhaegar that he was AA.

The third prophecy regarding AA was the Wood’s Witch prophecy that Selmy tells Dany about. In this prophecy is stated that Aerys and Rhaella must be married because PTWP/AA would be born from their line. Wow! Suddenly the list of candidates for AA becomes very small indeed. In the novels there are ONLY five people who are explicitly stated to come from this marriage. They are Aerys and Rhaella’s children: Rhaegar, Viserys, and Dany, and their grandchildren: Rhaenys and Aegon. These three prophecies along with the tragic events at Summerhall on the night he was born are what convinced Rhaegar he was the prince who was promised (and to be fair at the time Rhaegar came to believe he was AA, there was only him and perhaps Viserys to choose from). Until this third prophecy is revealed in ADWD, Rhaegar’s belief that he is AA seems to be nothing more than an eccentricity. So if Rhaegar had such good reason to believe that he was AA, why did he suddenly become convinced that it was not he, but rather one of his children who was AA?

I came to the conclusion that there must be a fourth prophecy related to the first three. In looking for this prophecy, I decided that “the dragon must have three heads” was referring to this fourth prophecy without being the entire prophecy. The only other statement in the novels that I think refers to this fourth prophecy is when Rhaegar says in the HotU, “…his is the song of ice and fire.” Without knowing any more about the prophecy than these two oblique references it is impossible to know why Rhaegar was convinced AA/PTWP would be one of his children and that he needed two more to make the three that would make up the three heads of the dragon. It seems to me that Aemon was skeptical of this interpretation. And indeed, that this prophecy would refer to three Targaryen descended siblings is impossible at this point. The sibling groups that this prophecy could potentially refer to are Robert, Stannis and Renly; Arianne, Quentin and Tristane; Rhaegar, Viserys and Dany; and Aegon, Rhaenys and Jon (this is not explicitly stated in the book, but R+L=J is widely speculated and I completely buy in to it). In each case, one or more of the siblings is dead. So from this we know the three heads need not be siblings or maybe not even related.

The only other reference we have to work with is this from Aemon “The dragon must have three heads,” he wailed, “but I am too old and frail to be one of them. I should be with her, showing her the way, but my body has betrayed me.” This tells us that Aemon interpreted the prophecy as meaning three actual people. If Aemon was right and Dany is AA, then the three heads almost certainly refers to dragon riders. If Aemon was wrong, then maybe the three heads has something to do with Dany being the child of three. However, Melisandre’s flames showed Jon as AA. If Jon is AA, then the other two heads could be something else, perhaps even Ghost and the raven. (btw, The only reason Melisandre rejected Jon as AA is because he doesn’t have any Targaryen blood as far as Melisandre knows.) One other possibility is the “dragon” is AA and that it needs three heads or people before it is complete. In other words, three people coming together complete the prophecy. If this is the case, all three people will need to fulfill the prophecies individually. This would mean that Aegon is real. I am personally of the opinion that GRRM has written Aegon’s story in such a way that it is 50-50 as to whether Aegon is real. I will not be surprised either way he goes. However, if Aegon is not real, then I don’t think the idea of AA actually being three people holds up very well.

[redriver]

It's become obvious now that the three heads are the Night's Watch,the Shadow of Asshai and Patchface.

Don't ask me who rides who.

[Targaryen_Rubies]

Perhaps the PTWP refers to a prince who must be of both fire and ice in order to defeat the Long Night and its champions. Perhaps the dragon's three heads refers to three commands who fight the others on three different fronts. It would be one entity fighting another with three different commanders on three seperate fronts.

I'm not great at reading prophecies but it's fun to speculate.

[GentlemanBastard]

I'm kinda surprised nobody has thrown young griff's name out there. I'm 90% sure he's Illyrio's get on Serra Blackfyre, but I'd have to say he's more qualified to command a dragon than most people's fanciful candidates. Whether that's what the prophecy means or not I honestly couldn't say, but at the same time someone has to keep the other dragons from just munching sheep herds.

Warging wolves Ironborn with horns lions of all sizes all lack one important thing. The royal blood of old Valyria.

I know you only get a little backstory on the freehold and Tyrion doesn't get to visit due to the fact it got doomed off of essos but here's my theory. In the whole history of the freehold their lasting impact was their great military prowess due to having the world's only air superiority. With all the people they fought and the empires and kingdoms they toppled nobody ever had an effective countermeasure (besides nymeria/dorne....masters of hide and seek they are). Then in a feast for crows (aptly named) the crow's eye comes back with a horn to cow dragons. So if an ironborn from westeros can find something post-doom, then couldn't easterners have known about it pre-doom? I never read of the andals braavosi the rhoynar the ghiscari or the ashaii having any dragons. The horn uses blood magic to bind them to their will and the ashaii are supposed to be experts on that stuff, but alas no dragons from ashai. Granted it may have been simply that they never could snatch it, but the doom would have left the place wide open to ghiscari or braavosi to getting what they feared most and turning the tables.

Then you have the first men with wargs and greenseer angle. When the dragons came to westeros wargs and greenseers probably weren't just legends in the north. There were probably guys more capable than bran jojen or varamyr. Nonetheless the Starks bent the knee immediately after the field of fire. I remember the king that knelt said that fighting would have been futile and just caused the north undue pain...and of course winter was coming. That being said one has to wonder if any of the greenseers attempted it back then. If there were guys around like varamyr then I'm sure they tried, and I'm also pretty sure they got fried and died. If you were top greenseer and had warged every natural creature then why not try a magical one.... ocupational hazard level through the roof. Unsupported theory and postulation it may be but it's the best I've got.

So if my theory is correct then the only ones who can command a dragon would be targs or their bastards. And this is where I'd introduce a big caveat. I'd say the targ blood can't be diluted too much. When Quentyn Martell tried to get one of the unclaimed dragons he got toasted. It may have been that Rheagal just wasn't compatible (you can only have one...dragon that is) but i think otherwise. I'm fairly certain that the dragon blood in him was just too diluted to give him the credentials needed to claim a dragon. With one targ ancestor from nearly 130 years ago probably meant he was less than 1/8th targ. Besides the first Dany Targ Quentyn doesn't cite any other Targ ancestors. That combined with Rhoynar blood meant that the dragons likely identified him as a threat rather than a friend. Ben Plumm on the other hand didn't get cooked despite being a mongrel. In fact the dragons seemed to like him. Why would that be? Well according to Tyrion he has 2 drops of dragon blood in him along with blood from every free city the westerlands and dorne... Makes him more targ than Quentyn I guess.

Then who does that leave with enough dragon blood to get a dragon? Dany is 100% targ and "mother of dragons".... and she already has riden drogon. I'd say that was the easy one. I'd say the next most likely would be Young Griff. Whether he's a blackfyre or a real Targ he could probably command his own dragon. If he's Rhaegar's real kid then he's about as qualified as Dany. If Illyrio's wife Serra was a Blackfyre then I'd say it makes no difference. Bastard or not the truth is in the blood. I'd say due to who he believes his father is Rhaegal would be his likely ride. If Jon Snow still lives and is truly the product of R+L=J then he should meet the standard to have a dragon. If I had to guess it'd be Viserion.... it'd match Ghost and the whole frozen north theme quite well.

Whether or not the prophecies are fulfilled or not is in martin's hands.... but imo those are who will get a dragon ride. comments concerns?

[starki]

My theory : Daenerys, Aegon and Tyrion (who I believe has Targ blood). Alternatively this could be Daenerys, Victarion and someone from Dornia - one of the Sand snakes (the three great Houses of the past - Targs, Grejyoys and Martells uniting to take over the Iron Throne).

Three heads : three dragon riders. :agree:

If it has to bee three aspects of a personality, there's so far only one person that fits - khaleesi, APTWP and Queen of Westeros.

I also think three heads could mean three counsellors/advisors Daenerys will need : Jorah, Barristan and Tyrion.

[Silpher]

Some awsome theoried flying around this is what i love about these books.

Anyhows a bit off topic here and dont know if it has been discussed else where (probably has) but someone posted this earlier.

"6. It is written in prophecy as well. When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone"

Has anyone connected the fact that Melisandre has been wanting to kill someone with "royal blood" through out the books to raise a stone dragon, who better than Jon? Hes dead will more than likely be back alive in one way or another - fits the blood (especially if he is a targ) maybe when he comes back alive he has a pet dragon lol

Anyways like i said bit off topic. ;)

[Bushido]

"The dragon must had three heads" is part of the Daeron's dream

[Siziel]

I really like this theory and I'm completely with you.

As I already stated in other treads I'm pretty sure that what Rhaegar discovered during his research will be the turning point of the whole story; so I also agreed on the fact that we do not know the prophecy in his entire form.

About the "3 heads"... something like Jon being king beyond the wall (chosen by the free people) Lord commander of the NW, and legitimate King of the Seven Kingdoms? :drool:

[Siziel]

Has anyone connected the fact that Melisandre has been wanting to kill someone with "royal blood" through out the books to raise a stone dragon, who better than Jon? Hes dead will more than likely be back alive in one way or another - fits the blood (especially if he is a targ) maybe when he comes back alive he has a pet dragon lol

Anyways like i said bit off topic. ;)

Mel "knows nothing" about Jon being (probably) the son of Rhaegar!

[Scipio Africanus]

I doubt that Rhaegar had anything to do with Jon's name. He was not present at the Tower of Joy when (presumably) Lyanna died giving birth to Jon. We don't even know if Lyanna named him...Lyanna may have wanted to name him something else, or never got the chance to name him before dying! It makes the most sense to me that Ned called him Jon (after Jon Arryn) instead of using the name Lyanna chose if she chose one, to preseve his identity, at least until it was safe (if ever) to reveal it to him.

I'm not so sure Eddard ever wanted to reveal Jon to the world otherwise he wouldn't have allowed him to joing the NW.

And not naming Jon after his Targayan kin makes sense, otherwise Bob Baratheon would be mildly upset and probably demand smashing the baby's skull in.

Mel "knows nothing" about Jon being (probably) the son of Rhaegar!

If she did she'd probably ask Stan to throw him on the pyre along with Rattleskin.

[Siziel]

If she did she'd probably ask Stan to throw him on the pyre along with Rattleskin.

Stannis would have trown him by himself, I guess.

Anyway, I don't think she would have used his blood if she knew who he is/was. She saved Mance for using him in a better way, so maybe she could have done the same with Jon.

[Dany4eva]

Well, we can't be sure that that was the name he intended, right? Maybe he had a different name in mind, but Ned decided to rename him for better protection (to give no spoilers, hehe).

Could jons name be viserion(sp?) Ties in with visenya and also ties him to the viserion dragon which looks similar to ghost?

[The Snow King]

So if my theory is correct then the only ones who can command a dragon would be targs or their bastards. And this is where I'd introduce a big caveat. I'd say the targ blood can't be diluted too much. When Quentyn Martell tried to get one of the unclaimed dragons he got toasted. It may have been that Rheagal just wasn't compatible (you can only have one...dragon that is) but i think otherwise. I'm fairly certain that the dragon blood in him was just too diluted to give him the credentials needed to claim a dragon. With one targ ancestor from nearly 130 years ago probably meant he was less than 1/8th targ. Besides the first Dany Targ Quentyn doesn't cite any other Targ ancestors. That combined with Rhoynar blood meant that the dragons likely identified him as a threat rather than a friend. Ben Plumm on the other hand didn't get cooked despite being a mongrel. In fact the dragons seemed to like him. Why would that be? Well according to Tyrion he has 2 drops of dragon blood in him along with blood from every free city the westerlands and dorne... Makes him more targ than Quentyn I guess.

I was always under the impression that the blood has not much to do with it (maybe you just smell less delicious roasted if you have some of Valyrian genes), and Quentyn was doing fine when he was trying to dominate one dragon, but he wasn't able to focus of two at the same time and got blindsided because of it. After all, the situation where he attempted dragon-taming was quite far from ideal. I think ancestry far less important than people in the world think, and dragons are tameable as any other wild animal (meaning: it's not easy), but people are just too scared of them to try.

EDIT:

Btw, I support this idea

Nice approach to the wording the dragon(singular) has three heads not dragons. Varamyr was called Sixskins becuase he warged into five animals(three wolves, shadowcat and a snow bear), he wore the skins of five animals plus himself. Heads can substituted for skins when talking about wargs.

Plus, in the Dunk and Egg tales, dragon is a metaphor for a Targaryen. If Jon manages to warg one of Dany's dragons, then it fits the prophecy: the dragon(Jon) has three heads(the heads of himself, Ghost and Drogon).

And as for Targaryen sigil, I am under the impression that they chosen it because of the prophecy that guided them to Westeros. The three-headed dragons was to be born from their line, so they identified itself with that image.

[Pearlthegirl]

Prophesies are always so obscure. The Dragon has three heads? Well, Dany has three dragons. Is AA the same as TPtwP? Will Jon's resurrection awaken more dragons? Do three heads equal three riders? So many questions!

My new favorite question is what did Aemon mean by the Sphinx is the riddle? Where did that come from out of the blue? I'm assuming Alleras/Sarella is the Sphinx in question and has a bigger story to evolve in the next couple of books!