7V3N Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 To move the discussion to a more appropriate location, here is the discussion so far:Varys is always talking about how he does what he does for the realm, for the Children.From what I can tell the continent aka the realm was once entirely owned and populated by the children of the forest, so what if thats what Varys means? Hes doing what he does to restore the realm to its rightful owners, hes doing it for the children. That could be why even though it seems like he wants to help the Targs, he does things that seems to do the opposite for them.Has this been discussed before perhaps?I like this idea, but there's no evidence to support it. Why would he do anything for the CotF anyway? On the other hand his saying he does it for the children in general... well, he never had a decent childhood or any chance of living a regular life, so his saying that is kind of believable, even if he's lying.It should be stated that I don't believe this, but selfishly wanted this discussion moved off of my thread to a more relevant thread :smoking: . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I reread the epilogue in ADWD when Kevan gets killed. The children that come out with the daggers. They are described as having white faces and dark eyes. Not any sort of COTF description. I tried searching through my kindle version of the books and can't find any other reference Varys might have made about 'the children'. I don't particularly believe that Varys is totally Targ loyal. I also don't believe he's doing it for the COTF. Or the realm. I don't really have a firm theory on what Varys is all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon rr stark Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Does anyone ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Well, until there is conclusive proof against it, I'll take his word and believe he is trying to create a lasting peace in Westeros for the next hundred years or so. To accomplish that, he is creating the 'ideal king', a king he had raised far away from the backstabbing, plotting, and privileges of King's Landing. No idea if Aegon is truly Rhaegar's son, but the purpose he is supposed to fulfill has been revealed.Aegon is the means to create a lasting peace. Why Varys should want this, why Illyrio would join him to accomplish this, why he may have sacrificed his own son to get it, I do not know. But those questions will be answered eventually. But I daresay that Varys is not really motivated by selfishness.If and how prophecies about promised princes and saviors figure into this has to be revealed as well. But it would make no sense to assume that Varys was ignorant about the Targaryen research about the promised prince, or the conclusions Aemon and Rhaegar reached at different times... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melpomene Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 When I first read the title I immediately thought of Mrs Helen Lovejoy from The Simpsons.And now replaced with Varys...Varys: The Children! Won't somebody just please think of the CHILDREN! :bawl:In all seriousness, he might just be referring to children in general (Like the next generation), the children of the royals (Tommen, Marcella, Trystane, Shireen, who are innocents in their parents messes) or a way to describe people like Aegon and Dany, who were still technically children for a good portion of the books. Or, maybe he was just trying to be funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElanaK Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I really think that Varys is not who we think he is. There have been multiple illusions to the fact that he's not a eunuch (Arya and Tyrion both see him with stubble and scars, as well as male body odor). I have a theory that the original Varys, who was a eunuch, was killed when Aerys was, and then another Targaryen loyalist (perhaps Arthur Doyle, Sword of the Morning), disguised himself as Varys. If that is not the case, then perhaps he is a R'hllor follower (the scars on his face = burns)? He supports Targaryens due to their connection with fire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corm Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I really think that Varys is not who we think he is. There have been multiple illusions to the fact that he's not a eunuch (Arya and Tyrion both see him with stubble and scars, as well as male body odor). I have a theory that the original Varys, who was a eunuch, was killed when Aerys was, and then another Targaryen loyalist (perhaps Arthur Doyle, Sword of the Morning), disguised himself as Varys. If that is not the case, then perhaps he is a R'hllor follower (the scars on his face = burns)? He supports Targaryens due to their connection with fire?I don't see how stubble, scars or sweat suggest he's not a eunugh. I believe you mean Arthur Dayne but he is dead, Ned Stark or one of his followers killed him in the Tower of Joy. I also don't think he's a R'hollor follower. I think we're going to learn a lot more about him and his plans with Illyrio but until then I can only speculate on his motives. It's said that he used to run a thieving group of children, maybe he just thinks they are better than adults? But I don't think he could mean children in general because killing Kevan only serves to cause more mayhem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtones520 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 If the real Varys was killed when Aerys died, don't you think Jaime would know about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris999 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I think that Varys really does want what is best for the realm, whats best for the small-folk.I think that he acts like he is a Targ loyalist, because he wants Dany and the Lannisters to destroy themselves fighting each other, so that Littlefinger can take the throne with minimal losses.Love or hate Littlefinger, he would be good for the smallfolk just because of his political and economic skills.If anyone knows what Littlefinger's true intentions are, it would be Varys, and they seem like the perfect duo to plot this move together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Lepus Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Varys cares so much for the children that he has the tongues of little slaves removed, so he can use them as perfect spies...I wish to watch that son a bitch to BURN! :angry2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I think that Varys really does want what is best for the realm, whats best for the small-folk. Yeah, everyone knows nothing is better for the smallfolk than a Dothraki invasion...Who among them wouldn't like 40 000 thousand savages to murder and rape their way around Westeros? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris999 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Yeah, everyone knows nothing is better for the smallfolk than a Dothraki invasion...Who among them wouldn't like 40 000 thousand savages to murder and rape their way around Westeros?Well, he dropped his support for Dany once Viserys died. No one said doing the right thing for the smallfolk would be easy or bloodless.Now he 'seems' to be supporting Aegon who doesnt have any Dothraki. I just started a thread in the main forum that outlines why I think that Varys and Littlefinger may be working together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corm Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 No one said doing the right thing for the smallfolk would be easy or bloodless.Well I'd put money on that being the only thing the smallfolk cared about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stallion That Mounts Texas Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Well, he dropped his support for Dany once Viserys died. No one said doing the right thing for the smallfolk would be easy or bloodless.Now he 'seems' to be supporting Aegon who doesnt have any Dothraki. I just started a thread in the main forum that outlines why I think that Varys and Littlefinger may be working together.A marriage to Dany has been the plan all along. Its the only sure way to gain universal acceptance that Aegon is the true son of Rhaegar Targaryen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris999 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Well I'd put money on that being the only thing the smallfolk cared aboutYou may be right, but after suffering through Mad Aerys, drunk Robert, and joffrey, they may be willing to go to war if it means that they dont have to suffer any more pompous highborn rulers who treat them terribly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dansnow Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I can't think of any evidence for this but is it possible the children of the forest helped him at some point in his past. I know it's unlikely but might as well explore all the possible angles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkie10 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I think the Children of the Forest theory is somewhat plausible because he does seem to always be informed of things, even things that are happening outside of King's Landing. The Children of the Forest, as we well know, have much to do with weirwood trees and, as we also know, Bran can see through the weirwood trees so maybe others can also? I don't really think so but it is a thought. I would like Varys to be tied into the Children of the Forest/Bran story because no one else seems to be but I think it's a tad farfetched.... Farfetch'd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertOfTheHouseBaratheon Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 You may be right, but after suffering through Mad Aerys, drunk Robert, and joffrey, they may be willing to go to war if it means that they dont have to suffer any more pompous highborn rulers who treat them terribly.The small folk weren't mistreated under Aerys or Robert. Aerys is the mad king because he killed lords. Roberts foibles were him mainly not keeping control of his Lords allowing the Lannisters to control basically everything and getting into large debt. The majority of this debt was with the Lannisters who used it to gain control and would have a relative on the throne so the debt would largely solve itself. No matter who is the king Aerys, Robert, "perfect" Aegon the troubles of the small folk will not change. In a feudel system they are dependant on their immediate Lords not the King. Those Lords are Lords by birthright, not by appointment so the King can not change them. If he started warring against Lords because they didn't treat their people right he'd have a full scale rebellion on his hands before you know it.I think people think too much in modern terms about the general population. Throughout the feudel system they were serfs no better than slaves. There are cases in england were peasants lost arms because they moved to a different Lords land so they were sued for depriving their previous Lord of work. They were one above cattle no more. None of the written history for the periods would include them, none of the Lords of the realm would consider them before making decisions and no King would measure his reign by how happy they were.With that in mind I fail to see how Varys could be acting for the small folk. He comenced a war that brought utter misery for the majority of the peasants for him to put Aegon on the throne and their lives to return to what they were before? The realm was at peace during Roberts reign so causing a war to change this dynasty makes no sense. Why not take more interest in the education of Roberts children to make them good Kings? No because finding a new king and teaching him from scatch and then waging a costly war to put him on the throne is a lot easier. He also takes the tongues out of children and has little regard for if they die in the process and when he's done with them as spies kills them. From GoT I got the impression he goes through quite a few of them as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alienarea Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Varys and his motives are to complicated to understand. Let's kill him off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvershanks Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I cant think who else the children like things that killed Kevan could be but the COTF? And i agree with pinkie10 that they could be his little birds.. it would explain how Varys knows so much about people he could be using there magical abilities! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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