Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Stubby

[TWOW SPOILERS] March 2014 Preview Chapter Part IV

171 posts in this topic

I agree on what was said about the Black Pearl except for almost romantic. She has yet to describe a man so positively. I always thought she liked her when she spoke about interacting with her in AFFC.

The "She was so lovely that the lamps seemed to burn brighter when she passed." made me wonder - 'glamor technique'? Maybe these world famous courtesans have more skills than we give them credit for - :shrugs: - but if so Arya could possibly be spending some time with the Black Pearl next as she does need to learn this art.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like your theory. Killing Lady Stoneheart would indeed be an act of mercy. I can hardly imagine a worse fate than being trapped forever in a rotting body, unable to experience any form of pleasure, feeling nothing but anger, hate, grief and despair.

People who accuse Martin of being soft-hearted in bringing Catelyn back from death are entirely missing the point IMHO.

Is LS that bad off though? In the Arya with Beric chapters it doesnt seem like Beric is THAT bad, I mean he forgets things and seems detatched. But he's not a zombie. They seem more like the pirates in Pirates of the Caribbean 1. Yes they can't eat or drink and are pissed about it, but they still make jokes and stuff. Actually she is a lot like them, cuz they are all on the mission to find the gold and revive themselves and they are basically unstoppable. That's how I see LS now, she has a mission to destroy anyone who had to with the RW and probably wont stop until she has taken everyone down including Walder Frey. I mean I agree with you that it is a terrible way to live and there is no joy in life and yes it is more of a punishment than a gift. But at least she has a purpose, one goal in mind that she will accomplish. I like her now lol, because at this point she has nothing to lose, absolutely nothing to lose. So there is nothing to deter her from her mission, which is very interesting to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is LS that bad off though? In the Arya with Beric chapters it doesnt seem like Beric is THAT bad, I mean he forgets things and seems detatched. But he's not a zombie. They seem more like the pirates in Pirates of the Caribbean 1. Yes they can't eat or drink and are pissed about it, but they still make jokes and stuff. Actually she is a lot like them, cuz they are all on the mission to find the gold and revive themselves and they are basically unstoppable. That's how I see LS now, she has a mission to destroy anyone who had to with the RW and probably wont stop until she has taken everyone down including Walder Frey. I mean I agree with you that it is a terrible way to live and there is no joy in life and yes it is more of a punishment than a gift. But at least she has a purpose, one goal in mind that she will accomplish. I like her now lol, because at this point she has nothing to lose, absolutely nothing to lose. So there is nothing to deter her from her mission, which is very interesting to me.

She's in worse shape than Beric, though, after spending three days in the water.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

She's in worse shape than Beric, though, after spending three days in the water.

That's true, ewwww. Yes I agree that her physical body is much worse off, but don't you think her mind is probably functioning as well as Beric's was?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That was a great chapter. Makes me wish George kept the 5 year gap.

Agree. The 5 year gap was the perfect plan. I am still not sure two books are enough to finish now. The Dany story seems a book long to get to Westeros alone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's true, ewwww. Yes I agree that her physical body is much worse off, but don't you think her mind is probably functioning as well as Beric's was?

Well, you'd think her brain would have started to decompose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, you'd think her brain would have started to decompose.

Lol, idk about that exactly, she might be denser than Beric was. That's an interesting point :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Late to the party but a great chapter! Liked the little details, for some reason I liked how the older guard served with Lord Tywin back in the days. A nice detail, doesn't really mean anything but still interesting (at least to me!). However this chapter enforces my opinion that Essos is most interesting when there are Westerosi characters around..


Edited by Grip

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is LS that bad off though? In the Arya with Beric chapters it doesnt seem like Beric is THAT bad, I mean he forgets things and seems detatched. But he's not a zombie. They seem more like the pirates in Pirates of the Caribbean 1. Yes they can't eat or drink and are pissed about it, but they still make jokes and stuff. Actually she is a lot like them, cuz they are all on the mission to find the gold and revive themselves and they are basically unstoppable. That's how I see LS now, she has a mission to destroy anyone who had to with the RW and probably wont stop until she has taken everyone down including Walder Frey. I mean I agree with you that it is a terrible way to live and there is no joy in life and yes it is more of a punishment than a gift. But at least she has a purpose, one goal in mind that she will accomplish. I like her now lol, because at this point she has nothing to lose, absolutely nothing to lose. So there is nothing to deter her from her mission, which is very interesting to me.

That's what she's meant to do and all she has to do. It is the will of the gods that should not be thwarted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Arya probably doesn't have to kill her. If Rickon pops up as King of the North or whatever and Sansa rises as Queen of the Vale and Arya shows up somewhere UnCat may just expire, she really thought all her kids were dead save Sansa who was wed to a Lannister and a Dwarf. Cat had no reason to suppose that Tyrion would be relatively nice to Sansa. So, pretty much everything seemed lost when she was killed and that's the assumption she's running on. I mean, now she knows that Arya is alive somewhere and had been traveling with the Hound, and that Sansa has escaped KL but in the end she never valued her daughters the way she valued her sons, whom she still thinks are dead.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why would you consider Stoneheart or the BWB irrelevant? They've been concocted for some purpose.

Like Uncat their story parallels Arya's rather conspicuously, and having become an inhumane instrument of revenge I think they're good candidates to receive the gift, if not the mercy of death then release from their deathly master. And in meeting and perhaps ending Uncat and the BWB Arya may realise something of herself in them. I think it'd be rather fitting, especially as it was in an Arya chapter we first met the then rather noble BWB.

Well, she already got a fairly heavy description from Beric himself of what a horror it was to live on and on without really being alive.

.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, this was probably discussed before (couldn't possibly follow all 3 parts of this thing) but has anyone noticed the dagger part?

Izembaro was calling for her again. Now he could not find his boar spear. Mercy found it for him, helped Big Brusco don his boar suit, checked the trick daggers just to make certain no one had replaced one with a real blade (someone had done that at the Dome once, and a mummer had died), and poured Lady Stork the little nip of wine she liked to have before each play.

I smell an FM mission here, or...?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lol, idk about that exactly, she might be denser than Beric was. That's an interesting point :)

I also think part of the problem with LS is that Cat died in a moment of gut wrenching insanity, raking her own face with her own long fingernails. I do think, perhaps, that the idea of Arya being the one to give LS the final 'gift' is interesting, although the way the story is going it seems like that would take too long, for all their sakes. That would be a long wait for confirmation that any of Cat's children truly live, I do think the children's fate is the key to LS being willing to let go. It would bring a new depth to Arya, I think, a strength. I can see symmetry in it, but part of me also thinks that LS may not last long enough for Arya herself to give the gift. But, if it was Arya who must do the deed, it may finally give Arya a deeper understanding about her talents, too.

Anyway, I did just want to say I think many things make LS different from Beric, even with his multiple reanimations. The insanity and grief at her moment of death, the days in the water, and her erroneous belief that all her children are gone. Quite frankly, I think Cat herself would be horrified to realize the type of things she is doing if and when the thought of her live children reach her.

For me, regardless of events, part of me feels that there is no way Cat or LS could look a live Ned, or UnDeadNed in the face and claim that all she is doing is a good thing.

Edited by Lady Fevre Dream

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyway, I had this thought from the foggy thread about Arya. Has anyone wondered if the below quote from the Mercy chapter might perhaps mean that, finally, the deep fog around Arya that seems to be preventing her returning to Westeros and her and her family's destiny might finally be over?



Here's the quote, I just gave this extra notice as it came even after Arya describing all the fog and how she is familiar with it in Braavos, anyway.



She had never seen a thicker fog than this one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why would you consider Stoneheart or the BWB irrelevant? They've been concocted for some purpose.

Like Uncat their story parallels Arya's rather conspicuously, and having become an inhumane instrument of revenge I think they're good candidates to receive the gift, if not the mercy of death then release from their deathly master. And in meeting and perhaps ending Uncat and the BWB Arya may realise something of herself in them. I think it'd be rather fitting, especially as it was in an Arya chapter we first met the then rather noble BWB.

One of the complaints against Arya's arc is that it's small scale and does not effect the major plot.

Killing an undead zombie that the majority of the realm doesn't know about changes nothing in the grand scheme of things. Uncat is also currently killing John Doe Frey #50 and 60. She's not killing major players. The BWB aren't some powerful group either.

Arya also would still be illegally killing people so that's still murder. The difference is that she will cross the line and kill people that she had an emotional connection to at one point. She's only contemplated doing so before.

If we look at Jon's line you will be sewing through winter she's going to be killing throughout. It won't stop. So seeing some undead zombie wouldn't change that. The Ghost of High Heart sees Arya's future but she does not see Arya and death parting ways. Arya is dark heart, blood child, and she smells of death.

The "She was so lovely that the lamps seemed to burn brighter when she passed." made me wonder - 'glamor technique'? Maybe these world famous courtesans have more skills than we give them credit for - :shrugs: - but if so Arya could possibly be spending some time with the Black Pearl next as she does need to learn this art.

Maybe. It would be very interesting to see more of the courtesan.

Anyways, that line I posted before about mud I backtracked a page and saw something interesting.

Going back into that barn was the hardest thing she ever did. Smoke was pouring out the open door like a writhing black snake, and she could hear the screams of the poor animals inside, donkeys and horses and men. She…crouched low where the smoke wasn’t quite so thick.

Arya rolled headfirst into the tunnel and dropped five feet. she got dirt in her mouth but she didn’t care; the taste was fine, the taste was mud and water and worms and life. Under the earth was the air was cool and dark. above was nothing but blood and roaring red and choking smoke and the screams of dying horses. she moved her belt around so Needle would not be in the way and began to crawl. A dozen feet down the tunnel she heard the sound, like the roar of some monstrous beast, and a cloud of hot smoke dust came billowing up behind her, smelling of hell. Arya held her breath and kissed the mud on the floor of the tunnel and cried. for whom, she could not say.Arya, ACoK

The dragons have been likened to snakes/serpents several times by different characters. She says black snake, and monstrous beast which makes me think of Drogon. Plus, there's the smelling of hell line which reminds me of Dany before she rode Drogon in ADWD:

When his mouth opened, she could see bits of broken bone and charred flesh between his black teeth. His eyes were molten. I am looking into hell, but I dare not look away.

So it's possibly Drogon/Dany chasing her.

More on the snake and crooked talk in this chapter I saw that it has come up before in ACoK:

The bad part was, the road wound back and forth like a snake, tangling with even smaller trails and sometimes seeming to vanish entirely only to reappear half a league farther on when they had all but given up hope. Arya hated it….Even so, the path was so narrow and crooked that their pace had dropped to a crawl.

In this chapter she seems to like the crooked path.

It kind of reminds me of that tunnel at the Wall.

It was cold and dark beneath the ice, in the narrow tunnel that crooked and slithered through the Wall.

But I think the crooked talk is metaphorical about both her journey and morals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of the complaints against Arya's arc is that it's small scale and does not effect the major plot.

Killing an undead zombie that the majority of the realm doesn't know about changes nothing in the grand scheme of things. Uncat is also currently killing John Doe Frey #50 and 60. She's not killing major players. The BWB aren't some powerful group either.

Arya also would still be illegally killing people so that's still murder. The difference is that she will cross the line and kill people that she had an emotional connection to at one point. She's only contemplated doing so before.

If we look at Jon's line you will be sewing through winter she's going to be killing throughout. It won't stop. So seeing some undead zombie wouldn't change that. The Ghost of High Heart sees Arya's future but she does not see Arya and death parting ways. Arya is dark heart, blood child, and she smells of death.

I think their and Stoneheart's relevance may well be Arya's arc, besides Stoneheart will be gunning for Cersei soon enough and she may have very relevant prisoners.

Sure Ayra will be killing, it's a question of motivation, what's driving her killings, and seeing herself in the BWB and Stoneheart may see her begin some self assessment, make her more susceptible to a more meaningful cause than her revenge list, like Sansa's or maybe Jon's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think their and Stoneheart's relevance may well be Arya's arc, besides Stoneheart will be gunning for Cersei soon enough and she may have very relevant prisoners.

Sure Ayra will be killing, it's a question of motivation, what's driving her killings, and seeing herself in the BWB and Stoneheart may see her begin some self assessment, make her more susceptible to a more meaningful cause than her revenge list, like Sansa's or maybe Jon's.

That still doesn't help Arya's arc to become relevant on a major scale. It helps to keep her small scale.

Cersei is going to be killed by the little brother. If it's Jamie then just like in life Uncat will set Jamie free so she loses a valuable hostage.

Mass murdering the BWB which includes former friends and committing matricide would actually make her even darker than she was before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ARYa_Nym,


UnCat might just become more important if Red Wedding 2.0 or something similar takes place, there are hints and foreshadowing that brotherhood is going to do something either with releasing Edmure, or retaking Rivverrun.



It is all just speculation for now, though.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To my knowledge that theory is centered around killing a lesser Lannister-one of the cousins and doing what they were doing before-killing Freys only this time they're not picking them off one at a time or in small groups. It's still an imitation of a game changing event, the RW.



Killing the BWB and Uncat only helps Freys and I don't see this as major scale. Hell, even Rickon might even be more relevant than that without doing anything. Arya needs to get involved in big scale stuff like the Dance of the Dragons 2.0.


Edited by ARYa_Nym

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0