[Book & Show Spoilers] Season 4 is unsatisfying for me so far

[jaimecersei]

I feel like I've been whining so much about this show recently but I feel like my complaints and feelings are not without basis so I'm just going to list a few reason why the first two episodes have fell flat for me. Don't get me wrong episode 2 was very entertaining and full of "oh shit" moments even aside from Joffrey's death. I laughed for a good minute at the Jaime/Loras scene for example. But since this show is considered as one of the ~quality~ shows on television, I think its only fair that I'm allowed to critique the quality of this show HA.

-the dialogue isn't very good. its not omg!horrible but its really stilted and rather awkward at many times. That Cersei/Brienne scene was horrible, I legitimately felt like I was watching some cheesy daytime soap opera during that scene, not ~quality!!!!111 show~ on HBO. it also feels rather modern, much more so than earlier seasons. cersei bitching to pycelle about how much he's "annoying" her really????? also "i murdered people for you" ughh ewwwww so fucking bad imo. i just feel like its greatly lacking in subtlety and zingers, one-liners, sarcastic and bitchy comments lose their appeal and effect when they happen every 2 seconds which is how it feels like in these past 2 episodes. idk i just feel like they're going out of their way to make the show "funny" and and its not working for me...its actually one of my major problems with the Sandor/Arya scenes this season. those scenes were not fucking funny in the book especially after the red wedding.

-the acting isn't very good. with the exception of Emilia Clarke, Kit Harington and Aiden Gillen's performances (who are GOD awful imo) I found most performances to be either average or good in earlier scenes. but this season, even some of the stronger actors of the earlier scenes have been LACKING imo. Lena Headey's acting during Joffrey's death scene was honestly terrible. and Nikolaj Coster Waldau's performance has also had a sharp decline so far in my opinion. So far, AT BEST HE'S BEEN AVERAGE. while last season he was incredible in my opinion. like yiikkessssss at his acting in that Jaime/Tywin scene tbh. Also not a fan of Pedro Pascal,Iwan Rheon and Natalie Dormer's acting to be honest but thats more my personal taste than their acting being objectively bad. i dont place the blame completely on them of course, i blame the writing and directing as well. and i'll sound off more on that below.

-the directing isn't very good. Dan Weiss directing in the first episode was so fucking mediocre. yiiikesss at that Sansa scene where she's running away from Dontos. honestly one of the worst directed scenes on the show so far. and I LOVED Alex Graves directing last season so I was super excited that he was directing so many episodes this season. and while his directing in episode 2 was good, there was a sharp decline of the quality from season 3 in my opinion. Scenes that should not have been funny were unintentionally hillarious like Jaime and Cersei running towards Joffrey for an example. also during my rewatch the angle where you could you Cersei's boobs when Joffrey is dying is so unbelievably blatant I CANNOT. I also blame Lena Headey's shitty performance during Joffrey's death on him to an extent. The way that he directed in which she was supposed to go from grief to batshit insane bitchiness and anger doesn't exactly help her in trying to give a good performance. like you cannot have fuck ups in such an important episode.

-too many blatant fan-servicey scenes. look i understand that these type of scenes are important to an extent because you need to appeal the show to the fans duh. but frankly these scenes just aren't working for me. the Cersei/Brienne scene in general was such laughable fan service I cannot. D&D must have gotten inspiration from fan-fiction while when they wrote that scene I swear to fucking god (and yes D&D wrote that scene not GRRM they even admitted in an interview, they have the power to write their own scenes even in a GRRM episode and GRRM has said that he has no power to veto D&D scenes). other fan-servicey scenes: the Brienne/Margaery/Olenna scene in episode 1 (Olenna fangirling over Brinne, really REALLY??). to be honest I'm just extremely tired of the excess Tyrell scenes in general, I got so burnt out on them in Season 3 and ugghhhh it seems like there will be a shitload of focus in this season as well (i fully admit that this purely a personal complaint lmao)

-Having Jaime there before the Purple Wedding is seriously hurting both his and Cersei's characters a LOT. I feel like they've reduced Jaime to just a pretty boy this season, and he has gone through some character regression. he's almost the same shithead that he was in season 1 except he's lacking the arrogance and he's been BORING to watch, while at least his shittiness was fun to watch in season 1. Also not a fan of Cersei so blatantly rejecting Jaime. even though the Cersei/Jaime relationship goes extremely downhill in the book as well, I think its important that Cersei's initial reaction to seeing Jaime was relief and happiness ENOUGH to happily and passionately have sex with him next to the corpse of their dead son. I REALLY REALY HATE that they're having Jaime pine over Cersei so much, yes he still loves her at this point in the book but he's also rather tired of her and its him who rejects her not Cersei because of his ~HONOR~. he is going to look like such a damn flop next episode I cannot, based on the spoilers i cannot. that altar sex scene is going to bring out all the assholes out of the woodwork. If i was only a show!watcher who hadn't read the books frankly I wouldn't want Jaime with either Cersei or Brienne. While I enjoy both the Jaime/Cersei and Jaime/Brienne relationships in the books for different reasons. I'm guessing his characterization will be better after he gives Brienne oathkeeper and it seems like they're getting the Jaime/Tyrion dynamic right but from interviews, promos and spoilers alone it really seems like he'll be completely lovestruck over Cersei in this season for the most part and she'll just be rejecting the shit out of him and i fucking hate it omg. the deterioration of the Jaime/Cersei relationship felt natural in the books and was compelling and interesting to read. with the changes they've made it just feels awkward and uncomfortable and not in a way that is good or interesting.

Basically the only storylines that I'm genuinely enjoying this season for far are Bran and Sansa's. and Bran hardly gets enough screentime. I enjoy Arya's storyline too but I'm bitter that they're going for the comedy route. Theon's storyline is good too even though that Ramsay scene where he's hunting the girl in episode 2 made me physically sick which is a good thing I guess because that's supposed to be the point.

The best performances so far have been Peter Dinklage, Sophie Turner, Jack Gleeson (rip joff), Maisie Williams, Alfie Allen. Even though they're whitewashing Tyrion too much for my liking and I'm so fucking tired and annoyed of Shae now.

lol I realize that most people aren't going to agree with me here but it felt rather cathartic to get all these emotions out and even if people agree with me here on some parts, it will feel good lol. either way I now have about -20,0000 expectations from this season. I'm convinced that even a lot of the oh!shit moments from the books will be rather mediocre or fall flat because of the changes they've made and or because of poor execution.

Basically I pretty much agree with that scathing NYT review, I'm starting to believe the NYT reviewer was the only reviewer who is sane

[averde]

I agree but I think no matter what the show runners did there was going to be problems keeping a TV audience interested after the Red and Purple Weddings. Their making changes to add something more to the story and keep it interesting and going, they've went the route of adding in cute little love story jokes and stuff like that. It's sad as a book reader but I believe necessary if the show wants to make it to have winds of winter on TV.

[BlackTalon]

Let me guess, those are the greatest problems you currently have in your life?

[The hairy bear]

Jaimecersei,

I think that the general consensus, here and everywhere, is that this season's two first episodes are the best first two episodes for any GoT season so far. With little dispute.

The show has always had weak scenes and bad dialogue now and then.

[ache]

I feel like I've been whining so much about this show recently but I feel like my complaints and feelings are not without basis so I'm just going to list a few reason why the first two episodes have fell flat for me. Don't get me wrong episode 2 was very entertaining and full of "oh shit" moments even aside from Joffrey's death. I laughed for a good minute at the Jaime/Loras scene for example. But since this show is considered as one of the ~quality~ shows on television, I think its only fair that I'm allowed to critique the quality of this show HA.

-the dialogue isn't very good. its not omg!horrible but its really stilted and rather awkward at many times. That Cersei/Brienne scene was horrible, I legitimately felt like I was watching some cheesy daytime soap opera during that scene, not ~quality!!!!111 show~ on HBO. it also feels rather modern, much more so than earlier seasons. cersei bitching to pycelle about how much he's "annoying" her really????? also "i murdered people for you" ughh ewwwww so fucking bad imo. i just feel like its greatly lacking in subtlety and zingers, one-liners, sarcastic and bitchy comments lose their appeal and effect when they happen every 2 seconds which is how it feels like in these past 2 episodes. idk i just feel like they're going out of their way to make the show "funny" and and its not working for me...its actually one of my major problems with the Sandor/Arya scenes this season. those scenes were not fucking funny in the book especially after the red wedding.

-the acting isn't very good. with the exception of Emilia Clarke, Kit Harington and Aiden Gillen's performances (who are GOD awful imo) I found most performances to be either average or good in earlier scenes. but this season, even some of the stronger actors of the earlier scenes have been LACKING imo. Lena Headey's acting during Joffrey's death scene was honestly terrible. and Nikolaj Coster Waldau's performance has also had a sharp decline so far in my opinion. So far, AT BEST HE'S BEEN AVERAGE. while last season he was incredible in my opinion. like yiikkessssss at his acting in that Jaime/Tywin scene tbh. Also not a fan of Pedro Pascal,Iwan Rheon and Natalie Dormer's acting to be honest but thats more my personal taste than their acting being objectively bad. i dont place the blame completely on them of course, i blame the writing and directing as well. and i'll sound off more on that below.

-the directing isn't very good. Dan Weiss directing in the first episode was so fucking mediocre. yiiikesss at that Sansa scene where she's running away from Dontos. honestly one of the worst directed scenes on the show so far. and I LOVED Alex Graves directing last season so I was super excited that he was directing so many episodes this season. and while his directing in episode 2 was good, there was a sharp decline of the quality from season 3 in my opinion. Scenes that should not have been funny were unintentionally hillarious like Jaime and Cersei running towards Joffrey for an example. also during my rewatch the angle where you could you Cersei's boobs when Joffrey is dying is so unbelievably blatant I CANNOT. I also blame Lena Headey's shitty performance during Joffrey's death on him to an extent. The way that he directed in which she was supposed to go from grief to batshit insane bitchiness and anger doesn't exactly help her in trying to give a good performance. like you cannot have fuck ups in such an important episode.

-too many blatant fan-servicey scenes. look i understand that these type of scenes are important to an extent because you need to appeal the show to the fans duh. but frankly these scenes just aren't working for me. the Cersei/Brienne scene in general was such laughable fan service I cannot. D&D must have gotten inspiration from fan-fiction while when they wrote that scene I swear to fucking god (and yes D&D wrote that scene not GRRM they even admitted in an interview, they have the power to write their own scenes even in a GRRM episode and GRRM has said that he has no power to veto D&D scenes). other fan-servicey scenes: the Brienne/Margaery/Olenna scene in episode 1 (Olenna fangirling over Brinne, really REALLY??). to be honest I'm just extremely tired of the excess Tyrell scenes in general, I got so burnt out on them in Season 3 and ugghhhh it seems like there will be a shitload of focus in this season as well (i fully admit that this purely a personal complaint lmao)

-Having Jaime there before the Purple Wedding is seriously hurting both his and Cersei's characters a LOT. I feel like they've reduced Jaime to just a pretty boy this season, and he has gone through some character regression. he's almost the same shithead that he was in season 1 except he's lacking the arrogance and he's been BORING to watch, while at least his shittiness was fun to watch in season 1. Also not a fan of Cersei so blatantly rejecting Jaime. even though the Cersei/Jaime relationship goes extremely downhill in the book as well, I think its important that Cersei's initial reaction to seeing Jaime was relief and happiness ENOUGH to happily and passionately have sex with him next to the corpse of their dead son. I REALLY REALY HATE that they're having Jaime pine over Cersei so much, yes he still loves her at this point in the book but he's also rather tired of her and its him who rejects her not Cersei because of his ~HONOR~. he is going to look like such a damn flop next episode I cannot, based on the spoilers i cannot. that altar sex scene is going to bring out all the assholes out of the woodwork. If i was only a show!watcher who hadn't read the books frankly I wouldn't want Jaime with either Cersei or Brienne. While I enjoy both the Jaime/Cersei and Jaime/Brienne relationships in the books for different reasons. I'm guessing his characterization will be better after he gives Brienne oathkeeper and it seems like they're getting the Jaime/Tyrion dynamic right but from interviews, promos and spoilers alone it really seems like he'll be completely lovestruck over Cersei in this season for the most part and she'll just be rejecting the shit out of him and i fucking hate it omg. the deterioration of the Jaime/Cersei relationship felt natural in the books and was compelling and interesting to read. with the changes they've made it just feels awkward and uncomfortable and not in a way that is good or interesting.

Basically the only storylines that I'm genuinely enjoying this season for far are Bran and Sansa's. and Bran hardly gets enough screentime. I enjoy Arya's storyline too but I'm bitter that they're going for the comedy route. Theon's storyline is good too even though that Ramsay scene where he's hunting the girl in episode 2 made me physically sick which is a good thing I guess because that's supposed to be the point.

The best performances so far have been Peter Dinklage, Sophie Turner, Jack Gleeson (rip joff), Maisie Williams, Alfie Allen. Even though they're whitewashing Tyrion too much for my liking and I'm so fucking tired and annoyed of Shae now.

lol I realize that most people aren't going to agree with me here but it felt rather cathartic to get all these emotions out and even if people agree with me here on some parts, it will feel good lol. either way I now have about -20,0000 expectations from this season. I'm convinced that even a lot of the oh!shit moments from the books will be rather mediocre or fall flat because of the changes they've made and or because of poor execution.

Basically I pretty much agree with that scathing NYT review, I'm starting to believe the NYT reviewer was the only reviewer who is sane

Absolutely agree with pretty much everything you said. The absolute butchering of certain characters just so the writers can shoehorn in some extra "comedy" or drama etc is especially disappointing. First time ever with this show that I've had no desire to go back and rewatch.

[Angmar]

It's still too early to declare "omg everything is ruined!!!!"

also too many lols and omgs and lmaos in your post, it's a bit distracting for me.

[Koi No Yokan]

No matter what route D&D take, it will be unsatisfying for someone somehow. Fortunately, the first two episodes have been met with high praise and excitement by the vast majority of viewers and critics. It's also only two episodes into the season.

It's your opinion and your entitled to it, but I really can't agree with anything you've said. It's also kind of hard to take the rant seriously, when it ultimately just comes across as one big overreaction ("omg fuck this and fuck that lmao").

Also, that infamous NYT review wasn't just against the show; but insulted GRRM, the female fanbase, and fantasy fans in general.

[King Tommen]

This site can be a little bit of a cocoon that easily develops into groupthink amongst a small subsection of posters but just so you understand, your opinion about the quality of these first 2 episodes (which you're allowed to have) is in the vast, vast minority amongst people who watch the show.

I would say that if you're unhappy at this point, you might just want to drop out because this has been some amazing television in the first 2 episodes and if you are finding this many things to get upset about, then nothing's going to satisfy you so it's probably not worth the effort.

[Mr Fixit]

This site can be a little bit of a cocoon that easily develops into groupthink amongst a small subsection of posters

Agreed. It's interesting to note how "viral" certain words and notions get around here. And I'm not talking about yesterday's news like "butchery" and "whitewashing". Seems like new words du jour include "zinger" and "one-liner" in a pejorative sense. Suddenly wherever one looks there are claims of Schwarzenegger quips on the show. :bs:

[Turncloak_]

I find both the show and the books outstanding. As do the majority of readers on this site as you can tell from the episode polls. Do I get upset when a change is made that I don't like? Ofcourse I do. Does that kill the overall show for me? Ofcourse it doesn't.

[Phil Sand]

yeh i have to agree with the posters above if you aren't enjoying these episodes stop watching they aren't going to get much better because so far they have been great.

[King Tommen]

Agreed. It's interesting to note how "viral" certain words and notions get around here. And I'm not talking about yesterday's news like "butchery" and "whitewashing". Seems like new words du jour include "zinger" and "one-liner" in a pejorative sense. Suddenly wherever one looks there are claims of Schwarzenegger quips on the show. :bs:

I can see in that original post about half of the buzzwords and complaints lifted directly from Elio's episode reviews. Almost like some posters read them and say "Oh yeah, I guess I'm upset about that too" and parrot it out in other threads until other posters see them and believe this is the general consensus.

I suggest going out and reading other reviews, not just Westeros stuff (which is informative but really trapped inside their own head for the most part) to get a better perspective about what is working on the show and what isn't.

[protar]

I can see in that original post about half of the buzzwords and complaints lifted directly from Elio's episode reviews. Almost like some posters read them and say "Oh yeah, I guess I'm upset about that too" and parrot it out in other threads until other posters see them and believe this is the general consensus.

I suggest going out and reading other reviews, not just Westeros stuff (which is informative but really trapped inside their own head for the most part) to get a better perspective about what is working on the show and what isn't.

I suspect it's more that people already have those complaints and just think that Elio's reviews put things succinctly. And so people use the same terms. Buzzwords might be annoying to some people but it doesn't change the validity of the arguments. I have read the odd review outside of Westeros.org but most aren't really to my liking. Many go in the opposite route of the ones here and talk about how the changes are to the betterment of the show which is just grating.

[Chebyshov]

I'm sorry to hear you're not enjoying the show this season. I personally disagree with it, but it sounds like if it's frustrating you that much, you might do best to not watch it, or maybe binge watch it later when it's all out.

It's interesting that the dialogue you specifically call out in your first point is actually GRRM's. I just think that's worth noting.

I know a lot of people are upset about Jaime and Brienne being in KL so early, but I listened to a podcast last night that hypothesized the reason for it might be that Jaime's actions to help Tyrion later in the season will seem more justified. I think that's a fair point.

[Rhaquentis]

Yeah well, you know, that's just like -uh- your opinion, man. :P

Be a little more patient and try to see this as a TV show, not the Bible, and I promise you will have more fun.

[Batman]

I don't think they have been as bad as all that. I do feel the series has never been as good since Sean Bean and Mark Addy left, but what can you do? You cant replace what they brought to the table. Although I do think the first two episodes have had absolutely no subtlety to them. The cannibal Thenns and Cersei/Brienne were just sledgehammers from the writers. Thenns are bad and Brienne likes Jaime, we get it!

[Ambria]

You started off with some valid points and I agree with the dialogue being way too trashy teen drama soap opera, but then you disolved in to ranting and over using this "I cannot" term

You cannot what, finish that sentence it seems

I couldn't even finish reading it after the 3rd paragraph.

[Ser Not Appearing]

The dialogue is weak sometimes, I agree. I generally give it a pass, though, as the overall show is still quite good.

The Pycelle scene with Cersei is a good example, BTW. The dialogue was weak but it serves the show because it gets at multiple personality things with Cersei, especially the Tyrell struggle for control that is upcoming.

I actually liked the Cersei and Brienne scene, BTW. It did feel somewhat forced but what it does is set the stage (when combined with the Jaime/Loras scene) for showing how Cersei and Jaime are estranged but still interested in one another. This will be useful as the season progresses and each character continues down a path.

Oberyn is great, imo, but I agree on Cersei's response to Joffrey... and Jaime running to his side looked clumsy. Acting is sometimes an issue. Heck, I even disliked Dink's delivery of the very public "lose your virtue" barb thrown at Joffrey. Acting is what it is, which is imperfect... and guided by direction in ways we don't know. It's still very good on the whole.

In the end, if the show is still good, and it is, I'll note my gripes and move on.

[jaimecersei]

yeah i just read that again and realize that i sound awfully over the top but i cant help it,i was looking forward to this season so much and its just falling flat for me so far :(((((

reviewers said that the third episode is the worst out the first three so next episode will only frustrate me further i guess

[JonCon's Red Beard]

and Jaime running to his side looked clumsy.

That was my favourite part, actually. Jaime simply pushed aside two men (who fell down) to get to his son. It's like he doesn't even care any more.