[Book & Show Spoilers] Season 4 is unsatisfying for me so far

[Queen of Whores]

Meanwhile.... the rest of the world is going apesh-t over how amazing this show is, it's setting ratings records, and even piracy records! One of the best shows on television!

I'm personally not one to automatically equate popularity with quality, however. If I were I'd think The Hunger Games and The Twilight Saga were masterpieces of literature.

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

I'm definitely going to be laughing at all the fury that D&D will get after that awful Jaime/Cersei scene in a week, I can assure you about that. I'm here for the drama

I am sure there will too, and if there isn't then I am sure you will take the matter well in hand.

[Daske]

I'm personally not one to automatically equate popularity with quality, however. If I were I'd think The Hunger Games and The Twilight Saga were masterpieces of literature.

But a lot of critics don't so much care for those either, at least not beyond popcorn fare. However, critics are generally praising GoT and in some cases really liking it.

If the critics were lambasting the show, I'm sure those who don't like it would be quick enough to point us that do to those reviews.

In any event, it's the majority of fans, the majority of fantasy genre critics, the majority of non-genre critics, and the majority of the viewing public that gave it a go - all seem to overall approve.

Noone is saying you can't not like something, but just because you don't like something doesn't mean it is necessarily bad, It may just not be your cup of tea. Else, since there is nothing that everybody likes, that would mean everything was bad! So the general consensus does count for a lot if it is across the spectrum of types of viewers and fans and non-fans of the genre.

[yushkevitch]

I'm personally not one to automatically equate popularity with quality, however. If I were I'd think The Hunger Games and The Twilight Saga were masterpieces of literature.

Agreed, look at The Walking Dead ... or Maury or Judge Judy or CNN or ... ok, point made ;)

[King Tommen]

The fact remains that for anyone who hasn't read the books, the show is a stunning achievement in all facets including acting and writing. Everyone will have their nitpicks here and there which are completely valid but the general consensus from both the audience and the critics is overwhelmingly positive.

It's only when you talk to some of the people who have read the books where these kind of complaints come up. And as a book-reader I can sympathize. You build up an image of the way the story plays out in your mind and when the show doesn't live up to that, it's hard to deal with. But that's your baggage, not the show's. So deal with it, and enjoy it because it's an amazing television show and if you can't get your head around the differences between the show and the book, then you're really missing out.

[King of the Road]

The fact remains that for anyone who hasn't read the books, the show is a stunning achievement in all facets including acting and writing. Everyone will have their nitpicks here and there which are completely valid but the general consensus from both the audience and the critics is overwhelmingly positive.

It's only when you talk to some of the people who have read the books where these kind of complaints come up. And as a book-reader I can sympathize. You build up an image of the way the story plays out in your mind and when the show doesn't live up to that, it's hard to deal with. But that's your baggage, not the show's. So deal with it, and enjoy it because it's an amazing television show and if you can't get your head around the differences between the show and the book, then you're really missing out.

:bowdown: Bravo ser.

[SerArthurHeath]

I bet Jaime doesn't actually rape Cersei anymore than in the books where lots of their sex starts off as specifically technically non-consentual

[David Selig]

The fact remains that for anyone who hasn't read the books, the show is a stunning achievement in all facets including acting and writing.

Anyone? Really? There has never been such a show that everyone considers great and there will never be one. There are always naysayers when it comes to art.

[King Tommen]

Anyone? Really? There has never been such a show that everyone considers great and there will never be one. There are always naysayers when it comes to art.

Talking general overwhelming consensus my friend. If you want a semantics discussion, have at it although I'm not sure what the point would be.

[TimeforTravel]

I agree with the love triangle thingy you mentioned. I also agree with Shae. All your other points are so much crap i cannot.

[Annara Snow]

I'm personally not one to automatically equate popularity with quality, however. If I were I'd think The Hunger Games and The Twilight Saga were masterpieces of literature.

*eyes burning from seeing The Hunger Games equated with Twishit*

That's a about as dumb as those dismissing GoT (and ASOIAF, though they haven't read it, of course) because it's fantasy and has sex and violence in it.

[Queen of Whores]

*eyes burning from seeing The Hunger Games equated with Twishit*

That's a about as dumb as those dismissing GoT (and ASOIAF, though they haven't read it, of course) because it's fantasy and has sex and violence in it.

I'm not dismissing it without reason. I've read the books and seen the movies, so I'm allowed to have a legit opinion on it. Obviously judging by your avatar arguing with you over its quality is not going to go anywhere, so I won't bother, but I don't think The Hunger Games is either 1) even close to being comparable to ASoIaF, and 2) a very good series in any way.

*ducks for cover*

[Tyrus Martell]

Meanwhile.... the rest of the world is going apesh-t over how amazing this show is, it's setting ratings records, and even piracy records! One of the best shows on television!

Oh yes, of course! So this means that anyone who doesn't pine over every aspect of the show is simply an annoying hipster!

/s

Just because it's setting ratings records doesn't mean the show is perfect for everyone.

Personally, the OP made some good points regarding the terrible directing in episode 1 for the Sansa/Dontos scene, and the terrible dialogue for Lena Headey and her lack of great acting when Joffrey died.

The show's worst sin, still, is focusing so much on the overly long brothel scenes and sex scenes. Not so much in these first two episodes this season, but take all the useless brothel scenes and the dumbass bromance scenes between Tyrion an Bronn regarding Pod's sexual prowess from the last three seasons and we could had more screen-time for more interesting things, like new characters who have been omitted from the show for "time constraints" (yeah, right), or more focus on storylines we actually care about.

[jaimecersei]

Oh yes, of course! So this means that anyone who doesn't pine over every aspect of the show is simply an annoying hipster!

/s

Just because it's setting ratings records doesn't mean the show is perfect for everyone.

Personally, the OP made some good points regarding the terrible directing in episode 1 for the Sansa/Dontos scene, and the terrible dialogue for Lena Headey and her lack of great acting when Joffrey died.

The show's worst sin, still, is focusing so much on the overly long brothel scenes and sex scenes. Not so much in these first two episodes this season, but take all the useless brothel scenes and the dumbass bromance scenes between Tyrion an Bronn regarding Pod's sexual prowess from the last three seasons and we could had more screen-time for more interesting things, like new characters who have been omitted from the show for "time constraints" (yeah, right), or more focus on storylines we actually care about.

ugh i couldnt agree more

[Le Cygne]

I bet Jaime doesn't actually rape Cersei anymore than in the books where lots of their sex starts off as specifically technically non-consentual

The other scene, Bran, who doesn't even really know what they are doing, knows she wants it:

There were soft, wet sounds. Bran realized they were kissing. He watched, wide-eyed and frightened, his breath tight in his throat. The man had a hand down between her legs, and he must have been hurting her there, because the woman started to moan, low in her throat. “Stop it,” she said, “stop it, stop it. Oh, please …” But her voice was low and weak, and she did not push him away. Her hands buried themselves in his hair, his tangled golden hair, and pulled his face down to her breast.

Hopefully they capture the complexity of the sept scene, it's not a love scene. But she does consent. There are several shifts in tone, but it's very subtle. It would have been better coming when he first arrived, because now he knows she doesn't want him anymore. Again, bringing him back early threw everything off.

[SerArthurHeath]

If you read Jaime's point of view, it's quite clear that a lot of the time he instigates the sex specifically without verbal consent- when she hits him he reflects how in the past he has turned her blows into kisses by instigating sex. The only person who can say whether this (and frankly whether the scene in E3 once we see it) counts as rape is Cersei. I don't think it is, given her thoughts about Robert and rape and Jaime

[Le Cygne]

Cersei does actually say it's not rape:

"Hurry," she was whispering now, "quickly, quickly, now, do it now, do me now. Jaime Jaime Jaime." Her hands helped guide him.

[SerArthurHeath]

On that occasion, yes

[SerArthurHeath]

But that doesn't mean that the same is true, or will appear to be true, in the show. Unless she says the same thing

[King Tommen]

OK again, that's well after he initiates some severely non-consensual stuff where she says "no" and beats at his chest. And on the show, they're supposed to be kissing the whole time so I think the whole thing is messed up in both mediums and just because at the end she submits and ends up liking what he's doing doesn't mean she was especially into it at all when he jumped her initially.