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(Book and Show Spoilers) Promo and Recap


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Newstar, I don't think Rory McCann was shaky before he got to Maisie (he had some great scenes prior to that) however he and Sophie Turner had zero chemistry in any way which didn't help them.

I don't think Turner and McCann had any particular scene chemistry either (though they had so few scenes that it almost wasn't an issue), but the writing did them no favours there. You can develop chemistry that may not "naturally" be there, but I really have no idea what the relationship between Sansa and the Hound is supposed to be on the show. From her perspective he's some dude who for some reason helped her out a few times, and then blew her off in the only actual conversation they had prior to Blackwater; from his perspective, she's...what, exactly? If you're looking for script cues as to his motivations, they're in short supply (that one deleted scene shows some part of the book Hound's sexual attraction, but that's totally absent from the handful of other scenes they have).

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Newstar, I don't think Rory McCann was shaky before he got to Maisie (he had some great scenes prior to that) however he and Sophie Turner had zero chemistry in any way which didn't help them.

I'm glad you talked about the chicken scene because I think that Maisie's part in that was one of the most sublimely acted scenes ever seen on this show.

on topic - Team Mountain! What? I think Mountain 3 is cuter than Oberyn 1.

I agree on sansa -hound dynamic. I didn't like the cut scene at all although I think it's very similar to what the book is like, which brings us to why didn't film it with the semiromantic overtones. There is no way to shoot it without having pedo overtones, which would have irrevocably sullied the hound. You can do it with lf because he is a villain, but if you did it with the hound the arya wouldn't be the same.
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BTW in correction of someone above, Bryan Cogman wrote the deleted SanSan scene. He confirmed as much on twitter a month or two ago. It was supposed to take place between Sansa's dinner with Cersei, Tommen and Myrcella and her scene where she met Shae.


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Yeah, the deleted scene clearly went in 2x03. I assume Tyrion was randomly inserted into what was a bastardized version of Book SanSan interactions to explain how Tyrion came up with the idea of having Shae serve as Sansa's handmaiden, which explains why Shae shows up in Sansa's chambers.

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3,5 hours left before the internet goes crazy... Dying Oberyn (-> guilty Tyrion), deadly injured Sandor, banned Jorah, flayed Ironborn, raiding Wildlings (okay, and lying Sansa&LF) - I feel a bit pity for the Unsullied, some NICE surprise will be desperately needed after tonight (Hopefully the other episodes can bring them some joy and again belief in justice... even after today).

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Colonel green, I am not the biggest fan of Sophie Turner. I think she has one of the worst actress voices out there. I find her extremely hard to listen too. She is up there with Melanie Griffith and Holly Hunter in irritating voices for me.



But even I have to agree she has come into her own in particular this season. I still don't much care for her character but I would really like to see a scene between her and the Hound now. I think they could pull it off now.


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I'm not sure if this has been brought here, I just found this on the HBO page, something with Pedro Pascal answering questions on their site, I think, LOL

http://connect.hbo.com/events/game-thrones/q-pedro-pascal/

Oh, Pedro, you crack me up! I'm going to miss him so much... :crying:

Also I've heard that Evangeline Lilly was up for Cersei, so make of that what you will.

That would have been awesome!

Three more hours for me - so pumped! :D

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Why would the Vale Lords support Sansa (and not turn her into the Lannisters)? Well, we should probably begin with the fact that the Vale Lords think it was the LANNISTERS who killed Jon Arryn. So, you know, there's that. Add onto that the fact that Ned Stark and Robert Baratheon were known and liked in the Vale when they were Jon Arryn's wards. There's also the fact that the Knights of the Vale were/are angry that Lysa did not assist Robb in his war (which indicates to me a loyalty to the Stark family), and I'm fairly certain the Vale Lords and Knights wouldn't be entirely comfortably with forking her over so easily. Also, weren't Bronze Royce and Ned Stark really good friends? I think I recall reading that. Why...pray tell, would Ned Stark's 'homeboy' hand over his daughter to the Lannisters (or let anyone else do it, for that matter)?

And who said anything about anyone going to war? I personally didn't mention anything about anyone going to war for Sansa. I'm only talking about her revealing her true identity. Where you got this war business from is beyond me. ALTHOUGH....for conversation sake...isn't that Littlefinger's plan? To reveal her identity to everyone so that the Knights of the Vale will "fight to win back her birthright"? Maybe your question about why the Vale Lords would fight for Sansa should be directed to HIM. Hell, that's HIS idea.

Also, I disagree. Sansa doesn't know what LF wants. Hell, NO ONE knows what he wants. Which is why we have copious amounts of topics discussing it. Futhermore, I would consider it a step UP (for her character) to take her own damn destiny into her hands (by revealing her own identity) rather than sit around and trust LF--or anyone else--to keep her "safe". I would have thought that as a Sansa 'fan', you'd prefer THAT outcome rather than a perpetual 'damsel in distress' characterization. I don't know, maybe some people are fine with Sansa sitting around, looking pretty, and playing stupid, but I'm not. Let her be a proactive player in her own life rather than a reactive participant to everyone else.

This again.

1) Some of the Vale Lords wanted to ally with the Starks to fight the Lannisters.

2) LF's probably telling Sansa what she wants to hear.

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I agree on sansa -hound dynamic. I didn't like the cut scene at all although I think it's very similar to what the book is like, which brings us to why didn't film it with the semiromantic overtones. There is no way to shoot it without having pedo overtones, which would have irrevocably sullied the hound. You can do it with lf because he is a villain, but if you did it with the hound the arya wouldn't be the same.

The scene was not similar to the book. It has a few similar lines to the book, but they are completely taken out of context and have lost all meaning. In the book, Sansa has come back from a meeting with Dontos; Sandor holds her when she is wobbly at the stairs and figures immediately that she's lying about where she's been. She's scared, not of him, but of being caught meeting a guy who is offering to help her escape. Sandor makes it clear that he knows she is lying, and tells her she is a bad liar (in that line that they decided to give to LF) but then he covers for her in front of Boros Blount. He also mocks her love of songs about chivalry and true knights, but says (pretending to be joking) that he would like to hear her sing such a song for him. He also tells her a meaningful story about the way his grandfather and his dogs saved lord Tytos, ending it with another great line: "A dog will die for you, but never lie to you."

He's drunk in that scene and talks a lot, and among the many things he says, he makes a comment about her developing body but adds that she's still a "stupid little bird" even though she looks "almost like a woman". But I don't see why it would be impossible to write that scene decently for the show if you want to leave out any signs of physical attraction, there is so much going on in that scene and their other interactions that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with romantic or sexual undertones. Like, for starters, the actors themselves talked about a "beautiful empathetic relationship" and that Sandor was bullied and abused by his brother so he finds it hard to see her abused and bullied by Joffrey, so, uh, how about him telling her his story, as he does in the books?

In the deleted scene, however, he just randomly comes up to her, tells her Joffrey is going to be raping her now (as if she doesn't know that already) and is just scaring her because....I don't know, he's a weirdo creep, I guess? And yells her he would like her to sing for him, which comes off as something completely random and lacks context, since the show has completely cut all references to songs or true knights (even LF'S famous "Life is not a song" line). It all ends with Tyrion as a good guy coming to Sansa's rescue from the bad Hound and telling him off. So, no, it's not like the scene from the book at all.

If Cogman wrote it, then he is really awful at writing Sandor and the Sansa/Sandor dynamic. Didn't he also write the fight with Beric where Sandor laughs instead of crying?

I'll say one thing for the show's portrayal of SanSan though: surprisingly, they had Sandor practically tell Sansa - in that scene where he was "blowing her off" - that he will kill Joffrey to protect her if necessary ("you will be grateful for the hateful things I do one day when I'm all that stands between you and your beloved king") - though I'm not sure if Sansa registered that (many of the viewers don't seem to have).

Colonel green, I am not the biggest fan of Sophie Turner. I think she has one of the worst actress voices out there. I find her extremely hard to listen too. She is up there with Melanie Griffith and Holly Hunter in irritating voices for me.

But even I have to agree she has come into her own in particular this season. I still don't much care for her character but I would really like to see a scene between her and the Hound now. I think they could pull it off now.

Well, maybe they could have pulled it off back then, too, if they had some meaningful, decently written scenes with more than a couple of lines of dialogue. There was one - the Blackwater one, which was good in the context of what their relationship was in the show, and that was a good scene, the way it was written, shot and acted, I loved Sophie's acting in it in particular. It's hard for actors to have 'chemistry' or to see if they have chemistry if most of their scenes consist of "stand there, look at each other in a weird/awkward way, say nothing".

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I have to disagree. Lack of story foundation or lack of number of scenes together does not excuse poor acting. Watch Charles Dance and Diana Rigg tearing into each other in that not terribly well written and kind of random scene in Season 3 where they're facing off over Loras and Cersei for an exemplar. They'd had no scenes together before and none since (except group scenes), but the scene--questionable writing aside--pops. Now, you might say it's not fair to compare Sophie Turner to them, but I'd say they're an excellent example for how poor writing is no excuse for actors letting their scenes fall flat as Sophie Turner's scenes with Rory McCann did

In fact I think it's an unfair comparison :P

Olenna doesn't have much psychological depth and her interaction with Tywin is certainly much easier to play than Sansa and Sandor's. Scenes like "Tywin vs Olenna" allow a plain histrionic acting (like Diana Rigg's) whereas Sansa and Sandor's interaction walks on a very fine line and is much more challenging to put on screen.

It ain't the same ballpark, it ain't the same league, it ain't even the same fuckin' sport :laugh:

IMO, the lack of story foundation is indeed one of the problems, how can you express such a subtle connection when the characters happen to meet, like, twice? and just seem to talk randomly about things which don't have any backstory?

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