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Bakker XXVIII: A Hiding Place Soon to be Discovered

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Happy Ent's intro:

"This is the perpetual thread devoted to the works of R. Scott Bakker, primarily the books in the Second Apocalypse series, the first of which is The Darkness that Comes Before.

The current publication status is 5 volumes of novels, including The White-Luck Warrior, as well as 2 short stories, The False Sun, and The Four Revelations of Cinial'jin. This thread contains spoilers for these publications.

Since Bakker's writing uses layers of revelation, newcomers are strongly advised to finish the books before coming here; otherwise the spoilers will rot your soul. Eternally.

Most denizens of this thread have also read Bakker's non-fantasy novels Neuropath and Disciple of the Dog, but the spoiler policy is unclear. You are advised to hide crucial plot points in those novels."

Last post was:

Yeah, that dream made me think that there was more to him than what we saw. But Ieva hated NC because of his love for his concubine.

Edited to add links to the two Atrocity Tales.

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So while wanking on some of the Foundation parallels mentioned in the last thread, I kind of stumbled onto something interesting regarding the Celmomian Prophecy and the idea that Ishuäl is the Second Foundation. You might not want to read this if you haven't read the Foundation series though.

According to the Prophecy, an Anasûrimbor will return at the "end of the world." So far the assumption is that this refers to the time period when the Consult will bring about the end of the world in the Second Apocalypse. There is a similar line in the Foundation series concerning the location of the Second Foundation. It is not given but we are told that it's at "the other end of the galaxy." That can be translated to "the other end of the world" in Eärwa. Which is very similar to Celmomas's "end of the world."

So the trick to this particular crackpot is to think of the "end of the world" in terms of location and not time. To someone from the Mandate - in the south-east of Eärwa, it actually seems that the Demua Mountains, where Ishuäl is located, is quite literally at the end of the world - the north-west of Eärwa. (Beyond it are only the Consult and the Nonmen.) However, Celmomas himself was on the Fields of Eleneöt when he made the prophecy, which is in the north-west and very near Ishuäl to begin with. So the end of the world as predicted by Celmomas is really "at the other end of the world" (from Ishuäl) - the south-east of Eärwa, which is near where the Mandate is but not the actual place. The same is true with the Foundation series where "the other end of the galaxy" turns out to be a trick and the actual location is somewhere else.

So where is it? Before he died, Seswatha built two towers, Atyersus, where the Mandate is based, and Attrempus, where ... not a lot has happened really. I've always wondered why Seswatha would waste his time building Attrempus for no apparent reason when he had a Second Apocalypse to worry about, especially since the Mandate is not even using it directly. According to the Glossary, the word Attrempus means "Tower of Respite." I know what the word respite means but more important is how Bakker uses the word in the series. If the name is supposed to give us some hint then he must have used in some unique way. From the epigraph of chapter 14 of TDTCB:

"What are the works of men if not a momentary respite, a hiding place soon to be discovered..."

"A momentary respite, a hiding place..." Respite: a hiding place... A hiding place. That can't be a coincidence. Seswatha must have built the tower to conceal something, most likely a ruined Nonman Mansion beneath it where something or someone is hiding.

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slick. worthy of the great lockesnow himself.

in order to avoid chirping upon the asimov virgins herein--

the trick in asimov is that the other end of the galaxy, relative to the circumference, is the center, as opposed to any particular point and its antipode 180 degrees away along that circumference. as i recall it, terminus was out along the periphery.

in the RSB the end of the world as a location might indulge in a similar semantic ambiguity and be topoi or access point to the outside.

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slick. worthy of the great lockesnow himself.

in order to avoid chirping upon the asimov virgins herein--

the trick in asimov is that the other end of the galaxy, relative to the circumference, is the center, as opposed to any particular point and its antipode 180 degrees away along that circumference. as i recall it, terminus was out along the periphery.

in the RSB the end of the world as a location might indulge in a similar semantic ambiguity and be topoi or access point to the outside.

And bonus for the fake out on the hiding place pertaining to a more coprocardiac theory.

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So while wanking on some of the Foundation parallels mentioned in the last thread, I kind of stumbled onto something interesting regarding the Celmomian Prophecy and the idea that Ishuäl is the Second Foundation. You might not want to read this if you haven't read the Foundation series though...

a great find.

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Well I see where there is some credence to this. Because leweth told Kellhus that the Three-Seas where virtually untouched by that apocalypse. That's why they are the dominant area of men at the times of the book. The Apocalypse took place in the north.

The Three Seas were young when the North was destroyed by the No-God and his Consult. Now that were but a shadow, theyre the seat of power for Men.

Which tied in with Locke's awesome find and theory. The second Apocalypse would be in the southeast. And Seswatha's "Tower of Respite" make a whole hell of a lot of sense. I've been starting a re-read of the series. Very slowly and paying close attention. Because this is what I feel I need to come to the understanding of these books. And so much is starting to slide right in place. Like, I said before I tend to read too fast and not delve into the intricate details, foreshadowing, and prophecy. But, its truly what makes this book great. One day good ladies and gents, I hope to offer some critical insight of my own. Its a great series. And when u slow down on the second read you just catch so much more. Should a did this along time ago. Insteadnof feigning ignorance. Just so may damn booksbi wanna read. But, I truly feel Bakker has sorta started a different type of fantasy and in years to come, he will get his just due and hopefully the millions he deserves. Just really hope he follows through with the TSTMNBN. The final duology/trilogy if you will. IMHO, it will go down as a all-time classic. People just need to jump on board. Now, Im gonna continue to really study this series. Like so many of you have.

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in order to avoid chirping upon the asimov virgins herein--

the trick in asimov is that the other end of the galaxy, relative to the circumference, is the center, as opposed to any particular point and its antipode 180 degrees away along that circumference. as i recall it, terminus was out along the periphery.

in the RSB the end of the world as a location might indulge in a similar semantic ambiguity and be topoi or access point to the outside.

Actually IIRC it's more explained in a social context: Terminus is at the very edge of imperial civilization, being newly settled, with a relatively small population and no ability to influence the wider empire; Trantor, as the seat of government, is at its very heart and has the biggest population of any planet in the galaxy.

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true nuff. political center, so to speak, rather than center of gravity! that would be weird.


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I guess I've got some reading to do before Unholy Consult comes out.


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Actually IIRC it's more explained in a social context: Terminus is at the very edge of imperial civilization, being newly settled, with a relatively small population and no ability to influence the wider empire; Trantor, as the seat of government, is at its very heart and has the biggest population of any planet in the galaxy.

it's been years and years but I thought

the Second Foundation was run out of earth's moon by that human looking robot dude.

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it's been years and years but I thought

the Second Foundation was run out of earth's moon by that human looking robot dude.

No, he had an alternative plan to Seldon's. The whole Gaia thing. The Second Foundation was on Trantor.

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Yeah the robot. R. Daneel Olivaw. Its the same robot from the Robot series as well.

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The slog of slogs, eh?

Perhaps. Let's see how long it takes for TUC to be released.

The Wiki says that these Asimov novels aren't too lengthy, so maybe the slog isn't too great. Maybe.

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The slog of slogs, eh?

To the Foundation boys!!!!

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Does that mean Proyas is the one? Is that why Khellus had those fire talks with him?


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no, proyas is cnaiur, and tabby cat is the one, after he wargs into the voodoo doll.

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@Ruiner & Solo:



Sheeee-it.



Nice find boys!


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Only while there are more posts to these threads are there crimes.



Otherwise the poster gods are left baying at the ASOIF gates.


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I worship the space and time between the posts.

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