Kyrion Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 I was just wondering, what was the idea behind this? Was it too dangerous to reveal Aegon even to his supposed family? Would Aegon be angry if he knew that his Aunt(and Uncle I guess) were basically manipulated to be killed by the Dothraki, or would he see that Varys and Illyrio were just looking out for him to take the throne one day, and had to sacrifice at least Dany to them? And I guess another question that probably answers this is, why Illyrio and Varys seemed to have ignored Viserys letting him be a beggar, until they saw fit to use him and Dany. Yet Aegon wasn't told of there existence presumably? So I guess Both Aegon was ignorant to their existence (though in KL it was well known that the Targaryens fled across the Narrow sea, Aegon wasnt in KL) and the Viserys wasnt told about him either. I dont know, seems to me that Aegon is more of a tool than an actual person Varys and Illyrio want to help personally, though Illyrio seems to love Aegon a whole bunch, can someone clarify? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archmaester Drew Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Young Griff is probably a Blackfyre through the female line, and the son of Illyrio. Varys and Illyrio are orchestrating another Blackfyre Rebellion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 The thing about secrets is that the more people who know, the less secret it is. Especially children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archmaester Drew Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 I think Viserys and Daenerys were used by Varys and Illyrio to distract King Robert from their plots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRON BANK Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Plausible deniabilty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realistic_asoiaf_fan Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Young Griff is probably a Blackfyre through the female line, and the son of Illyrio. Varys and Illyrio are orchestrating another Blackfyre Rebellion... Personally I think Young griff being a Blackfyre is incredibly plausible, but I have no idea why Varys and Illyrio would be orchestrating another Blackfire Rebellion. When you think about what Varys and Illyrio want, which is peace and stability so that they can make as much money as possible, it would be much more profitable to tell Young Griff that he's Aegon in truth and no one would be one the wiser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loge Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Whatever game Varys and Illyrio are playing, they definitely don't just want peace and stability. Short-term, they actually want the opposite. Thus the murder of Kevan Lannister. Either Faegon is their Plan B after Viserys died and Dany can't be controlled or the Targ kids were just pawns in a more complicated plot and the ultimate goal was making Faegon king all along. Right now there isn't enough info to tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northernmonkey Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 If Viserys had found out he probably would have tried to have Aegon killed, for being the rightful heir to the throne. Illyrio probably knew this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brakeb4bend Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 why tell viserrys and dany? i see no reason whatsoever. And varys and illyrio are wise enough not to put all their eggs into one basket. Just like bran and rickon were seperated, i think the reasonable thing was to keep aegon and viserrys+dany apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaselPie Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 If Illyrio wanted Viserys back in Westeros with an army, he could have made it happen. Setting him up with a Dothraki army - who would hate to cross the sea - always seemed suspect. So did marrying Dany off to Drogo, when Westerosi alliance/marriage would have made much more sense. I think they expected Viserys and Dany to die, paving the way for Aegon (real or not) without question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Amethyst Empress Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 If Viserys had found out he probably would have tried to have Aegon killed, for being the rightful heir to the throne. Illyrio probably knew this. My thoughts exactly...Imagine Viserys finding out that he wasn't the "rightful king" he would throw a tantrum :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangover of the Morning Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Varys and Illyrio want Aegon (whoever he is) on the throne. Revealing Aegon's existence to Viserys and Danny gives them zero benefit and can only cause troubles down the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Viserys showed and proved to be a liable sort of guy early on. He probably behaved erratic, entitled, demanding and much too obnoxious during his beggar years. More, I suspect it was his own irrational behaviour that probably made him a beggar king, just like his obnoxious behaviour made him the cart king with the Dothraki. Illyrio would have learned about this for sure from the other noble houses who took him in once in a while. Varys and him would have known that the Viserys wouldn't be able to lead an army a long while before aGoT, because no army would ever respect him, and he'd be impossible to control because of his stupid wilfulness. It's madness to invest in such a loose canon. And you sure aren't gonna tell such a man that there's someone else who has a better claim. I think Dany was wed to Drogo, as a lure for Viserys. They had to get him out of the way. And the best thing would be to marry Dany off, and he'd follow her on her heel. Sure, Illyrio tries to speak reason with Viserys and telling him to be patient and stay in Pentos. But Illyrio would have known it would just make Viserys follow Dany all the more - opposite psychology. Urging for patience with a complete irrational and impatient man falls on deaf man's ears anyway. And they probably even counted on some conflict with the Dothraki that might end up with Viserys dying. Hadn't it been for Dany making such a positive impression with Drogo and his khalasar, Viserys would have died sooner: her word and insistence that no harm would come to him for a long while was what kept him alive for so long. They probably had little faith in Dany either: she's a girl (women aren't so important, except for the family ties and heirs they could reproduce), 13 years old and under total control of her whacky brother. She had some worth to be married to a Westeros lord, but it would take at least another decade before any child of hers is old enough to rally an army behind. They thought she'd either perish, or would remain a weak and meek wife to Drogo who wasn't going to cross the sea anyway. I think Dany surprised them when she discovered her own agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrion Posted August 17, 2014 Author Share Posted August 17, 2014 If Illyrio wanted Viserys back in Westeros with an army, he could have made it happen. Setting him up with a Dothraki army - who would hate to cross the sea - always seemed suspect. So did marrying Dany off to Drogo, when Westerosi alliance/marriage would have made much more sense. I think they expected Viserys and Dany to die, paving the way for Aegon (real or not) without question. This. I think they wanted Dany and Viserys basically to die. What I was asking in my original post was how would Aegon feel if he found out Varys who saved his life as a child, led his aunt and uncle to basically die in the hands of the Dothraki. Varys also fed all kinds of info to the small council in Westeros to get Robert to try and poison her which he eventually succeeded, seems to me that they are looking out for Aegon politically, but personally their being dicks and killing off his last remaining family. I wonder what Aegon would do if this info gets told to him. Can anyone be knowledgeable? I guess all of the members of the original small council is dead except Varys, Barristan, and Littlefinger ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Viserys and Dany were never the primary focus of Varys and Illyrio. They were pawns, a distraction, bait, etc. at various times. Do you really let two kids whom you're actually supporting run loose in the Free Cities for a decade with no protection? No. You can look at how Aegon lived and at how Viserys and Dany lived and easily see which party was the real priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Viserys and Dany were constantly watched by the order of Robert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanna Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Because Varys knew Mormont was a spy, so why tell Dany and co? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Viserys and Dany were constantly watched by the order of Robert. Yeah, but who was feeding Robert the intel? It was Varys. All Varys had to do, if he wanted to keep Robert off their trail, was feed Robert false intel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pod The Impaler Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Plausible deniabilty Plausible deniability, and compartmentalization, and contingencies, and not putting your eggs in one basket, loose lips sink ships, and so on. (Robert was not the only threat to their survival, perhaps not even the main threat.) And also, to get Dany and especially Viserys to go along with their plans may have been more difficult if they had known about Aegon. Would Viserys, who was older, accept playing second fiddle to his infant nephew? You saw how he treated Dany. You saw how, despite selling her into marriage, he also wanted to make her his mate. Even if he had married Arianne, he would resent any union between her and Aegon. (Tyrion raised a good point with Aegon, that Dany is not likely to respond well to some random lad whose claim to the throne is better than hers.) And how would Aegon get along with Viserys ? We could have shades of Robb and Joffrey here - a real warrior versus an arrogant but ineffectual bully. I also do not think Aegon himself was ever fully aware of what Dany and Viserys were up to; if he is a fake - either actually a "pisswater prince" or even a Blackfyre, it might be imperative to keep them separated until their interactions can be controlled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pod The Impaler Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Yeah, but who was feeding Robert the intel? It was Varys. All Varys had to do, if he wanted to keep Robert off their trail, was feed Robert false intel. To give the appearance of loyalty, Varys had to feed Robert some real intel from time to time, and at least appear to enact his regime's wishes. Who watches the watcher? Well, his equally treacherous rivals do. After all, Varys had been Aerys' man once, and few trust a master of whispers to begin with. Varys was not the only man with spies around, including the Free Cities. Cersei & Tywin clearly have some (and their agent, Pycelle), and Littlefinger would have more than that. All it would take is some small evidence of disloyalty or dissent and Varys' head would end up mounted on the Red Keep. Varys always gives the impression of being cunning, but essentially a gutless servant of those who have the power to order him around - he has to act this way for his own survival and the survival of his plans. Essentially he is causing problems that he then solves, to appear useful. Of course Varys was the source of information on Daenerys marriage and pregnancy - information the crown would probably have learned anyway, but later on. Of course he appeared to carry out the order to have her poisoned with moral indifference, but in reality he was no less against her murder than Eddard was. Varys sends an assassin who was a patsy, and warns Jorah so she can be saved. The fact an attempt was made spurs Drogo to prepare for the very war Varys and Illyrio hoped would happen, and prepare the ground in Westeros by letting the Stark/Lannister/Baratheon conflict take place first. I don't think they expected Viserys to get himself killed by Drogo, and there was really no way they could have saved him, but knowing Varys he was probably not too sorry that it happened. Viserys was proving too much like his father, and Dany proving a far better leader than they had expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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