Lord Lannister Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 So at the beginning of A Game of Thrones, Ned pretty much had to divide his family leaving some at Winterfell and taking the rest to King's Landing since he was named Hand of the King. Catelyn told Ned in no uncertain terms she wouldn't permit Jon Snow to remain at Winterfell with her and Ned felt that a bastard would have no place in the court of King's Landing. My question is, why? Certainly there's plenty of precedent for it. Robert Flowers and Addison Hill were both former Lord Commanders of the Kingsguard. Robert had every intention of bringing Mya Stone to court until Cersei prevented it. No one pitched a fit when Humfrey Waters was named commander of the Goldcloaks or Aurane Waters was given a small council seat. Nor when Oberyn brought Ellaria Sand to the capital. Doran also had no problem naming Nymeria Sand to fill the Dornish spot on the small council. Heck Ned himself offered Gendry either a position in the city guard or a squireship depending on how you take his offer. So by all precedent, sure bastardy does present an obstacle in the world of nobility but it's one that can be overcome. So why is Ned so adamant that Jon can't come with him? We all know Jon's chomping at the bit to join the Night's Watch, but that seems to be a rather uninformed choice that would last the rest of his life. Ned seems to reluctantly accept this because of his son's bastard status. Yet there's plenty of historical precedent for bastards to be in the court, and certainly the attitudes of the current day allowed an environment were bastards could rise up to positions of importance. Frankly Ned could've used a nearly grown son around whose support he could rely upon absolutely down there. He had few enough allies as it was. Not to mention this would give Jon a chance to learn a good bit about what he might be giving up in life before the swearing away everything and joining the Watch. Which you'd think a father would want even with his and Benjen's romanticized notions of the Watch. It might have made him look bad, but Ned was seldom concerned about other people's perceptions of him. He was this rustic northerner coming into the "more civilized" capital anyways. So did Ned have a different agenda for keeping Jon behind? It couldn't have been his promise to Lyanna, because he'd have kept Jon close if the promise was to take care of him. Could it have been he didn't want to parade Jon in front of Robert on the slim chance he might add two and two? It just seems to me Ned's reasoning for leaving Jon behind was rather thin, even if we know as readers the plot needs it to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildfireKing Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Well, someone (Jaime, Varys, ser Barristan,..) could have noticed the resemblance between Jon and a certain dead prince :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jon Targaryen I Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Well people might start digging to find out what he is or his identity if you catch my drift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AryaNymeriaVisenya Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 He says that Jon will be mocked at court because he is a bastard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingWITHcersei Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 You have a valid point. I suspect Ned may indeed have come to that conclusion in time, but he didn't get time to think bc Maester Luwin immediately brought up the NW option. You could even say Luwin took liberties even manipulated Ned by implying Benjen was all for it. What exactly was said if anything by Benjen to Luwin is debatable but ultimately unknowable. However the theory is out there that the Maesters know something about Jon and wanted him tucked away safely at the Wall, much in the way they tucked Aemon away their. I could be wrong but I believe Luwin interrupts Ned and Cats conversation to offer the Wall solution. Without that Jon may well have ended up in KL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacsheep Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Excatly, taking Jon to KL would be walking him into the lions den. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 He says that Jon will be mocked at court because he is a bastard While he's not wrong, that's hardly a good excuse. At least, is quite a lame one. Look at Aurane Waters, for instance. And other bastards are around been awesome. Not to say that some KG have been bastards too. Jon might be a bastard, but he's Ned Stark's bastard. He could have been accepted as a squire quite easily. Barristan could have gladly taken him to squire for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balerion the kitten Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Few things to say about this post1) Until it's confirmed there is NO solid proof that looking after jon was the promise, I think that IF jon was rhaegar' s kid ned would have taken him without a promise.2) Life would have been extremely difficult as a bastard, no one would really want to hang out or talk to him. Even at winterfell is dad was the highest Lord (my meaning that no one except cat could talk down to him and get away with it) there and yet his life was such a misery that he joined the watch. Imagine what would happen with other nobles like cersei who (ironically) hates bastards and those of low birth, she would be one of many. There's not much his ned could do to make Jon's life easy at the capital. And those cases of bastards rising are quiet rare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoseStark* Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 If I recall correctly, Jon wanted to join the Night's Watch because him being a bastard didn't matter there. Jon had always had the struggle with his identity and being a bastard. So going to King's Landing, a place where bastards aren't really accepted in the higher classes, wouldn't be something Jon would've wanted.Going to KL for him would have been a much bigger struggle than joining the Night's Watch... I think that even when Ned had offered Jon to come with him to KL, Jon would've declined the offer and still had joined the Watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Plot demanded it, that's why Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Viserys Targaryen IV Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 If you are keeping the biggest secret ever that could cost you and your family everything, the last place you want Jon is in the Capitol. And I might be wrong, there is a difference between a bastard with two noble parents and a bastard from a commoner like Jon is supposedly supposed to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrammarYatzy Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 You have a valid point. I suspect Ned may indeed have come to that conclusion in time, but he didn't get time to think bc Maester Luwin immediately brought up the NW option. You could even say Luwin took liberties even manipulated Ned by implying Benjen was all for it. What exactly was said if anything by Benjen to Luwin is debatable but ultimately unknowable. However the theory is out there that the Maesters know something about Jon and wanted him tucked away safely at the Wall, much in the way they tucked Aemon away their. I could be wrong but I believe Luwin interrupts Ned and Cats conversation to offer the Wall solution. Without that Jon may well have ended up in KL. tucked away safely at the wall? If the maesters really wanted to protect Jon they could have all conspired to pretend he was really really academically brilliant and that it was critical he was sent to old town. "can you fit this block on this hole? OH MY GOD HE IS A PRODIGY" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Ned sort of freaked about Jon, and made some weird decisions in order to keep him safe. But bottom line is, with that dark hair, I dont think he was in any real danger. As no one thus far in the novels seems to have any inkling that Lyanna might have had a kid. It's sort of eerily never mentioned that 2 people locked in passion for so long might have led to something............ It's actually funny to me that all the rumors are about Ned (the moral), and not the loved crazed couple that started the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany's Golden Fleece Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Well, someone (Jaime, Varys, ser Barristan,..) could have noticed the resemblance between Jon and a certain dead prince :) Doesn't Jon look pretty much like a Stark, long face, grey eyes, dark hair? Jon and Arya look very similar. So its not that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bael's Bastard Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 IMO Ned wanted Jon as far away from KL as possible, whether there was really any chance anyone would have discovered his true identity or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildfireKing Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Doesn't Jon look pretty much like a Stark, long face, grey eyes, dark hair? Jon and Arya look very similar. So its not that. Yes, he looks a lot like a Stark but the people I mentioned knew Rhaegar very well, They could have noticed some similitudes between the two (maybe the behavior, or some facial trait...The nose?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oafkeeper Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Anyone recognising him as Rhaegar's seed seems impossible. He has no Valyrian features and no one would be looking for it. Ed sent Jon to the wall but he doesn't regard that as a punishment. His own brother serves there. Jon could have gone other places: Ned could have fostered him with any number of families or sent him out into the world to just tour. It's not like the Starks are short of cash. So while it is a bit "THE PLOT DEMANDED IT" it's not liek Ned didn;t have reasons to send him to the wall or to not take him to KL. I mean if he had gone there he'd be dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Varys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoseStark* Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Also, isn't the Wall the only place Jon could've gone to?There are three places he could have gone:1) Stay at Winterfell2) Go to KL with Ned3) To the Wall. Wel 1) is not an option. When Ned is away from Winterfell, Cat will rule there and we all know what she thinks of Jon. If he had stayed at WF, she would have made his life not easier one.2) Well KL is not the safest place for Jon to go to, because of him being a bastard in the first place. And maybe R+L even had something to do with Ned's decision of taking him there, however unlikely it seems. I think Cersei and her opinion about bastards is the first danger (how hippocrytical, though) and Varys and LF aren't really the people Ned would to be around Jon...The only option is the Wall. First of all, because status isn't really important there (well, in theory) and also because it's honourable and Starks have tend to send sons to the Watch or ages (even though, Jon isn't really a Stark, he has the moral values of one and looks like one) and Benjen is there to keep Jon safe. Like I said before, Jon is quite positive about going to the Watch, so I think this is and was the best option. And of course, the plot always had something to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippounet Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 If you are keeping the biggest secret ever that could cost you and your family everything, the last place you want Jon is in the Capitol. /thread. Anyway, I don't see what good it would have done Jon to be in King's Landing. Ned himself hardly wanted to go there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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